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← Censoring Sir David

Censoring Sir David - Comments

BicycleRepairMan's Avatar Comment 1 by BicycleRepairMan

He is reported as saying he thought the changes were "fairly innocuous".


NOOOO!! Sue them David, let these mammals have it. Give them this, and theyll eat through everything.

Stump out ignorance, that is, after all, what you've been so wonderfully and inspiringly been doing all your life!

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:20:00 UTC | #66238

bertie wooster's Avatar Comment 2 by bertie wooster

This is yet another indicator, that unless checked, Evangelical Christianity and Islam are going to drag us into a new dark age.

Once they have built up a critical mass in political, and other establishment circles, these people will really start to dictate what we should see, read or hear. How long until RD's books and Attenborough's DVDs are cast onto a bonfire?

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:34:00 UTC | #66240

drive1's Avatar Comment 3 by drive1

TGD will be a lot shorter if it gets this sort of treatment.

The editing of the film is rather sad, actually. It's worth navigating to the original article so you can check the transcripts to see what was removed or altered. Truly the equivalent of fingers in ears and loud chanting.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:41:00 UTC | #66242

dsainty's Avatar Comment 4 by dsainty

I dread to think of the authority of David Attenborough's work being loaned to Creationism...

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:46:00 UTC | #66243

KingofallSamurai's Avatar Comment 5 by KingofallSamurai

I'm sure I saw video footage of Sir David Attenborough saying how horrible Creationism is in a Panorama show (I think) so I am very surprised he is so laid back.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:47:00 UTC | #66244

Quine's Avatar Comment 6 by Quine

This is how it slips away ...

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:52:00 UTC | #66246

sidfaiwu's Avatar Comment 7 by sidfaiwu

Once this form of censorship becomes institutionalized, can I work for the Ministry of Truth? Thanks.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:53:00 UTC | #66247

Galactor's Avatar Comment 8 by Galactor

This subject runs somewhat parallel to an earlier topic; see for Dutch related young earth fruitcakery some of the posts around

http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,1624,Young-Muslims-begin-dangerous-fight-for-the-right-to-abandon-faith,Times-Online-David-Charter,page1#69418

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:26:00 UTC | #66250

epeeist's Avatar Comment 9 by epeeist

Comment #69719 by Galactor

This subject runs somewhat parallel to an earlier topic

And another attempted piece of censorship is here - http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,1627,Griffins-offensive-Emmy-speech-to-be-censored,CNNcom#69714

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:41:00 UTC | #66253

_J_'s Avatar Comment 10 by _J_

It is rather sad, this, isn't it? Bless those poor creationists - they like to look at cuddly animals just like the rest of us, but simply can't bear to be reminded that they weren't hand-stitched by the Steiff Employee in the Sky. It's a sorry situation when you're reduced to editing out all the natural history in order to get your dose of Natural History.

As for Sir David's easy-going attitude: I suspect he's just glad that there aren't any major ideologies strongly opposed to sentences that end: '...must find food/shelter/its mother, or perish.'

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:51:00 UTC | #66254

bluebird's Avatar Comment 11 by bluebird

Shameful, but not surprising. Theme of the Oct/07 issue of 'Discover' is Science in America.
A Kansas Christian school uses 'science' texts that "present the universe as the direct creation of God and refute the man-made idea of evolution".

Sir D.A.s series are top-notch, including the latest, "Planet Earth".

Someone made the quote "D.A. is to nature, what Carl Sagan is to astronomy".

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:53:00 UTC | #66255

_J_'s Avatar Comment 12 by _J_

(picking up from 10)

...which, now I think about it, makes me reflect. Survival of the fittest has been written through every David Attenborough documentary I've ever seen. It's all mating rituals, running away from predators and starving to death; shagging, fighting and dying. They can cut the word 'evolution' out if they want to, but I'd think that the subtext of the whole programme would still reek of it. Them pesky facts of life are pretty hard to dispense with, really.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:54:00 UTC | #66256

Major Bloodnok's Avatar Comment 13 by Major Bloodnok

drive1:

TGD will be a lot shorter if it gets this sort of treatment.

The God Delusion (revised edition)

"...[T]he existence of God ... has been proved ... by science. ..."



Mind you, they probably wouldn't be honest enough to out the ellipses in.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:35:00 UTC | #66260

Corylus's Avatar Comment 14 by Corylus

I wonder whether David Attenborough's laid back attitude is due to the quiet glee with which any sensible person would approach the situation of being censored whilst in their eighties.

I am put in mind of dear old Christopher Lee being delighted when nominated for the MTV "Best Fight Scene Awards" when he was about 84.

Go David! Release a version of 'Disposable Teens' or 'Fight Song' - I'd buy it :-))

(Yes, I know this is a serious subject, but everyone has been so damn serious and miserable around here recently that I have decided to have a silly phase).

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:35:00 UTC | #66261

shaunfletcher's Avatar Comment 15 by shaunfletcher

While I personally am disgusted, I think the issue of legal action or serious objections by the BBC would rest on the nature of changes. If the documentary is edited deceptively to give an apparently different opinion than that actually expressed, that would be serious. If they merely dont show parts they dont like.. there isnt anything much to do about it.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:41:00 UTC | #66263

Yorker's Avatar Comment 16 by Yorker

Like all Brits here I'm a funder of the BBC, I think that gives me the right to make some DEMANDS of them. I would demand they don't sell any program that allows the buyer to remove footage injurious to the overall content. The broadcaster must make whatever scheduling adjustments they need without changing the content. These programs are made with OUR money and the BBC have wasted far too much of it in recent years. I hope you will all join me in emailing the BBC about this, it's something I do regularly.

Corylus

Nothing wrong with a little silliness now and then. :)

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:32:00 UTC | #66271

Arcturus's Avatar Comment 17 by Arcturus

What a bunch of losers, editing the best nature documentaries ever made.

ps: this reminds me of this clip :)
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=1527015701504510860

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:10:00 UTC | #66274

robotaholic's Avatar Comment 18 by robotaholic

I learn more with the tv off.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:25:00 UTC | #66288

travismc's Avatar Comment 19 by travismc

I heard about these Liars-for-JesusĀ® a few months ago, when I saw these videos, showing just how the censored Sir David's program

They're made by a YouTube user with the name Obdurodon.

Video 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3qoXqHNmq0

Video 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9b1bQSb_nI

Video 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEQiPccZVdw

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:46:00 UTC | #66292

Crazymalc's Avatar Comment 20 by Crazymalc

Very sad.
Truth be damned.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:22:00 UTC | #66295

Damien White's Avatar Comment 21 by Damien White

There are 300 Dutch biologists now?

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:34:00 UTC | #66297

Arcturus's Avatar Comment 22 by Arcturus

A similar feat for EO would be editing "The root of all evil" and showing it to christians, muslims and jews.

I think it's a disgrace for BBC to accept having their footage mangled like this. (maybe they are in financial trouble :))

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:01:00 UTC | #66301

BMMcArdle's Avatar Comment 23 by BMMcArdle

[Creation science is] an attempt to give credibility to Hebrew mythology by making people believe that the world's foremost biologists, paleontologists, and geologists are a bunch of incompetent nincompoops. ~Ron Peterson

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:16:00 UTC | #66303

robert s's Avatar Comment 24 by robert s

Perhaps Dutch viewers should write to them and request they show Lost Worlds, Vanished Lives

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:54:00 UTC | #66306

Russell Blackford's Avatar Comment 25 by Russell Blackford

If the description is correct, this really does destroy the program's integrity. It's a mystery why Attenborough is so relaxed. I can imagine reasons why he might feel the need to keep quiet, but not for why he might say it's all fine.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:42:00 UTC | #66310

Robert Maynard's Avatar Comment 26 by Robert Maynard

This is the kind of censorship which is important, when it's altering relevant information. There's nothing bizarre about trimming the fat of a program for time, but these are targeted omissions, and they are not fatty.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:02:00 UTC | #66312

Dr Benway's Avatar Comment 27 by Dr Benway

travismc, I just watched those clips. The first cut involving the close up of the delicate old fossil clearly showing an ancient platypus with teeth while Sir David explains that modern platypus lack teeth, is strong visual evidence in support of evolution. If I'd seen that at age 10, it would have made a lasting impression upon me.

Perhaps Sir David isn't troubled because the series taken as a whole remains convincing, in spite of the edits. I don't know.

Still, it's weirdly Orwellian to see meanings manipulated to serve an ideological agenda, particularly involving an icon of science like Sir David.

If time were the issue, couldn't they cut some of those fly-over bits instead?

Evil idea: Photoshop a Bible under Sir David's arm while he's talking, then put it up on YouTube.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:19:00 UTC | #66313

BAEOZ's Avatar Comment 28 by BAEOZ

Dr. Benway, you are indeed evil.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:26:00 UTC | #66315

Sittingduck's Avatar Comment 29 by Sittingduck

Yikes.... These people are scary.

I watched the clips and it's very sad how hard they are trying to make reality fit their world view.

What are they going to do next - take away globes and maps from their followers? How do they explain away all those comfortable fitting geographies like South America and Africa? I think I was 5 years old when I "independently" figured out continental drift when I saw my first globe.

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:34:00 UTC | #66317

Sittingduck's Avatar Comment 30 by Sittingduck

Damien White:

There are 300 Dutch biologists now?


What do you call 300 Dutch biologists?

I dunno - but it sounds like the opening to a great joke....

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:41:00 UTC | #66318