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← Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope

Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope - Comments

Fedler's Avatar Comment 2 by Fedler

A bit like the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think? Same old stuff.

Man, I despise the RC church.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:05:00 UTC | #88045

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 1 by hungarianelephant

Marxism, the Pope wrote, had left behind "a trail of appalling destruction" because it failed to realize that man could not be "merely the product of economic conditions".

Wonder why he singled out Marxism ahead of Nazism?

Oh yes, I remember.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:05:00 UTC | #88044

bruce's Avatar Comment 3 by bruce

"It is no accident that this idea has led to the greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice," the Pope said. Such a concept was grounded in "intrinsic falsity".

Take a look at the most progressive and free countries in the world today and most of them have a secular form of government. I think that is no accident either.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:21:00 UTC | #88050

heathen2's Avatar Comment 4 by heathen2

Reciting arguments made by atheists, he said: "A world marked by so much injustice, innocent suffering and cynicism of power cannot be the work of a good God. A God with responsibility for such a world would not be a just God, much less a good God."


So how does the pope counter this sentiment? I don't get how he did this from the article. Good response from the UAAR.

This pope is several steps backward from the last guy. Probably he's just scared that the RC power structure will crumble during his tenure, so he's hanging on tight.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:25:00 UTC | #88052

room101's Avatar Comment 5 by room101

Pope Benedict, in an encyclical released on Friday, said atheism was responsible for some of the "greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice" in history.


Really? I thought teddy bears were the problem.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:29:00 UTC | #88054

annabanana's Avatar Comment 6 by annabanana

"We have all witnessed the way in which progress, in the wrong hands, can become and has indeed become a terrifying progress in evil. If technical progress is not matched by corresponding progress in man's ethical formation, in man's inner growth, then it is not progress at all, but a threat for man and for the world,"


Although from the article it sounds like most of the encyclical is garbage, I quite agree with this statement, just not in the way that he would like. It could be counted as a secular statement since it doesn't mention God at all...

It would be quite amusing to use his own statement against him, especially since the religious have a particular knack for doing that to most atheists!

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:36:00 UTC | #88055

Mark Till's Avatar Comment 7 by Mark Till

I'm coming round to Sam Harris's view that the term "atheism" is becoming more of a curse than a strength to us in the cause of rationality. It has been, and is being, twisted and misrepresented as an ideology or belief system in its own right, rather than a mere lack of ridiculous belief. Worrying.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:43:00 UTC | #88058

JanChan's Avatar Comment 8 by JanChan

And just when I thought the Catholic Church was undergoing Reformation at last, after taking a record time to accept a scientific theory that contradict dogma. It took them about 300 years to accept that the Earth goes round the Sun, while only about a century and half to accept evolution. Well, this statement certainly brings them back to the dark ages.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:47:00 UTC | #88060

jimbob's Avatar Comment 9 by jimbob

History has proven wrong ideologies such as Marxism which say humans had to establish social justice because God did not exist, the Pope wrote.


Never a truer thought written in ignorance?

He's right, it's ideologies that are the problem --- and religious ideologies are at the forefront.

Watch out for the atheism = marxism slur. It's going to be a common dishonest strawman strategy as rationality continues to chip away at religious power.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:52:00 UTC | #88061

alexmzk's Avatar Comment 11 by alexmzk

In the second encyclical of his papacy, Benedict urges Christians to put their hope for the future in God and not in technology, wealth or political ideologies.

yeah, cos technology's getting us nowhere, money's obviously just evil, and political ideologies are very unimportant. what wise words indeed.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:03:00 UTC | #88067

petermun's Avatar Comment 10 by petermun

So Mr Ratzinger, birth control has no part to play in helping to save humanity?

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:03:00 UTC | #88066

Scott McMeekin's Avatar Comment 12 by Scott McMeekin

I don't think the problem is terminology. With all this crap about the "theory" of evolution going on, and "atheism" being paralleled with "marxism" or "leftism" or "liberalism" I suspect that whatever term you use will be twisted about to mean whatever a certain group wants. Religion seems to be adept at defining "out-groups", and semantic arguments and obfuscation seem to be the popular tools these days.

I'd happily refer to myself as a "free-thinker", but then you'd get all this crap from wingnuts about spilling coffee or not spilling coffee, and how they're "free-thinkers" as well.

At the end of the day, you're either a rational person, or you're not.

Scott.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:09:00 UTC | #88069

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 13 by Steve Zara

If technical progress is not matched by corresponding progress in man's ethical formation, in man's inner growth, then it is not progress at all, but a threat for man and for the world," he said.


Indeed. Which is why need need to get rid of the oppression of women, calling homosexuality wicked, forbidding useful contraception... I could go on.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:11:00 UTC | #88073

arogop's Avatar Comment 15 by arogop

5. Comment #92320 by room101

"Really? I thought teddy bears were the problem."

Its not the teady bear, but that fact we make a symbol out of it by giving it a name.

All kidding aside, this pope sucks compared to the last one who just sucked a little less. Of course when the Rapture comes we will get rid of all of them!!

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:23:00 UTC | #88080

heathen2's Avatar Comment 14 by heathen2

I agree with Scott, it seems that no matter what we label ourselves with (or don't), they will give us a label and twist it. I'm getting more and more comfortable with atheist, even though reactions seem to be shock, surprise, raised eyebrows to that term. That's okay, they can get used to it over time.

If the pope wants to demonstrate how he puts his faith in his god instead of material goods, he can give away the church wealth to charity (how about Amnesty International). That would be a powerful message to his flock, rather than issuing worthless encyclicals.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:23:00 UTC | #88079

petermun's Avatar Comment 16 by petermun

Hungarianelephant richly deserves the number one slot in this thread.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:30:00 UTC | #88084

funkyderek's Avatar Comment 17 by funkyderek

"Spe Salvi", an anagram of "Evil saps". Coincidence?

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:42:00 UTC | #88090

bluebird's Avatar Comment 18 by bluebird

Pope Benedict has egg on his face... again.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:44:00 UTC | #88092

supercres's Avatar Comment 19 by supercres

Because, you know, the atheists launched crusades and an inquisition against believers, wiping them out by the millions, and continue to cause suffering and death by giving AIDS education backed up by science instead of education backed up by a zombie carpenter and a man in Rome in a pointy hat.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:45:00 UTC | #88094

Arcturus's Avatar Comment 20 by Arcturus

"Benedict urges Christians to put their hope for the future in God and not in technology"

Well, that's one reason why I don't want to hear about Christians any more.

And from now on, I don't want to see any catholic using any technology. They should all retreat in caves and put their hopes in God. For sure it will give them a quick ticket to heaven.


If technology makes you lose your faith, then you have two options. That is, if you are not a hypocrite.
1) renounce faith and embrace the wonders of science and technology
2) keep your faith, but renounce any product of science and technology
Can you do that, Mr. Ratzinger?

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:06:00 UTC | #88101

Matt H.'s Avatar Comment 21 by Matt H.

"Let us put it very simply: man needs God, otherwise he remains without hope."

What a masochistic fool.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:22:00 UTC | #88107

jimbob's Avatar Comment 22 by jimbob

It just occurred to me that it was probably reading this type of tripe that turned mother Teresa into an atheist!

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:25:00 UTC | #88108

the way's Avatar Comment 23 by the way

They are on the run. They no longer have the monopoly on information technology like they used to, people are allowed to read nowadays! The Immams are doing a better job at suppressing people and information than they are, so they are losing on all fronts. On top of that they are killing off most of their congregation in the developing world with their satanic policies. No wonder they are worried!!

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:43:00 UTC | #88111

icanus's Avatar Comment 24 by icanus

"If technical progress is not matched by corresponding progress in man's ethical formation, in man's inner growth, then it is not progress at all, but a threat for man and for the world,"


So let's be sure to keep our ethical discussions rooted in a two-thousand year old text, then...

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:47:00 UTC | #88114

JFHalsey's Avatar Comment 25 by JFHalsey

I'd listen to Michael Jackson give advice on child care* or OJ give marriage counseling before I'd listen to anyone in the RC church talk about "the greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice."

BTW, hungarian, your new avatar made me laugh out loud!


(* I almost said "child rearing". Whoops!)

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:57:00 UTC | #88117

padster1976's Avatar Comment 26 by padster1976

just put this in the debate box under 'Stalin was an atheist' - 'atheism has killed more people than religion'.

That comment about the 'wealth' - how much money has the RC got?

This quote got my attention...

'Reciting arguments made by atheists, he said: "A world marked by so much injustice, innocent suffering and cynicism of power cannot be the work of a good God. A God with responsibility for such a world would not be a just God, much less a good God."'

Er, the Pope did nothing to counter this. As the world is shit, the pope must be saying there is no god.

judging what the RC did with Galileo, I'm not about to except any direction on how we should use technology.

And why isn't he questioned about where he feels his authority to tell us this? Self appointed authority? From 'on high'?

Nice comment on the mentioning of marxism only.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:05:00 UTC | #88118

padster1976's Avatar Comment 27 by padster1976

I've just found the encyclical on the vaticans website - i found this...

'2. Before turning our attention to these timely questions, we must listen a little more closely to the Bible's testimony on hope. "Hope", in fact, is a key word in Biblical faith—so much so that in several passages the words "faith" and "hope" seem interchangeable.'

I would say, most words terms in the bible are interchangeable - mostly there definition.

So much horse shit!

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:10:00 UTC | #88122

Cliff Melick's Avatar Comment 28 by Cliff Melick

"Let us put it very simply: man needs God, otherwise he remains without hope."

Isn't it the other way around?

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:19:00 UTC | #88127

cowalker's Avatar Comment 29 by cowalker

JFHalsey:

I'd listen to Michael Jackson give advice on child care* . . . . before I'd listen to anyone in the RC church talk about "the greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice. . . ."

(* I almost said "child rearing". Whoops!)


Let's not forget, there are many RC clergy whose advice on "child rearing" would be informed by years of personal experience.

Pope Rat said atheism could be regarded by some as a "type of moralism." OK, a can of beans could be regarded by some as a flowering plant. That doesn't make it so.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:40:00 UTC | #88132

Denevius's Avatar Comment 30 by Denevius

Mark Till: "I'm coming round to Sam Harris's view that the term "atheism" is becoming more of a curse than a strength to us in the cause of rationality. It has been, and is being, twisted and misrepresented as an ideology or belief system in its own right, rather than a mere lack of ridiculous belief. Worrying."

I'm actually most concerned when I hear an atheist say atheism isn't an ideology.

The reason why atheism is an ideology isn't because of Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins. It's because of all the people who are not very rational but have led themselves to believe that they are because they call themselves "atheist".

I have had many discussions with atheists who have no real understanding of the arguments they're repeating, and who live very irrational lives. Yet'll they will swear until they're blue in the face that they are rational because they are atheists.

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:50:00 UTC | #88135