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Archbishop of Canterbury Praises Richard Dawkins - Comments

phil rimmer's Avatar Comment 1 by phil rimmer

He likened Professor Dawkins' understanding of the beauty of the world around us with that of St John of the Cross, the 16th-century mystic.


Progress of sorts. Next we need an admission that he (we) might be as moral.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:24:00 UTC | #99427

maton100's Avatar Comment 2 by maton100

Another example of association by default via inconguous conflation and misplaced flattery.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:30:00 UTC | #99433

_J_'s Avatar Comment 3 by _J_

I'm growing quite proud of, and impressed by, our Archbishops.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:35:00 UTC | #99435

Vaal's Avatar Comment 4 by Vaal

So, RD is now a militant mystic?

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:38:00 UTC | #99437

fieryanteater's Avatar Comment 5 by fieryanteater

[Dr Williams, who was recently interviewed by Professor Dawkins about Charles Darwin and evolution for a Channel 4 series to be broadcast next year.]

I wonder if he gets to interview Ted Haggard for this one :-) probably not, but something to look forward to anyway,does anyone have news when it will actualy get transmitted ?

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:38:00 UTC | #99438

Mike Dudley's Avatar Comment 6 by Mike Dudley

Your impressed with "our" Archbishops?

"whom he described as being in touch with the "amazement and awe" of God's creation"

How is it possible for the good Professor to be in touch with something which he himself says DOES NOT EXIST?

The clerics, like every other victim of indoctrination, always fall at the very first hurdle by trying to misrepresent the atheist position - not because they are wilfully manipulative, but because they don't seem to be able to follow the simplest of logics...

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:42:00 UTC | #99439

eXcommunicate's Avatar Comment 7 by eXcommunicate

This is a backhanded compliment if anything. Didn't take long for a religious leader to put his spin on the "revelation" that Richard likes to sing Christmas carols. Hell, I like singing "12 Days of Christmas" with my extended family every Christmas, but that doesn't mean I do it for the "awe" and "inspiration" I get from the "Christian Message"[TM].

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:42:00 UTC | #99440

clunkclickeverytrip's Avatar Comment 8 by clunkclickeverytrip

"The Archbishop also singled out for praise the atheist Richard Dawkins, the Oxford professor recently outed as a carol singer, whom he described as being in touch with the "amazement and awe" of God's creation."

I think RD's position is being misrepresented to the tune of, say, 180 degrees. RD is in touch with the amazement and awe of the power of evolution on the geological timescale, not of "God's creation".
Name dropping of a prominent atheist may have some self-serving purpose to the Archbishop, but he'd be better off simply saying to his flock: "You know what, Richard Dawkins is right. There's is no God. I resign, and I've spent the church's money on evolutionary biology text books that have been mailed to each member of this church. I've also sent letters to the leaders of the world's other religions recommending they follow my lead." That would be the only time I could see a reason for him to invoke RD.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:43:00 UTC | #99442

Stormkahn's Avatar Comment 9 by Stormkahn

I've got to say that broadly speaking I like what they have to say, at least they're pointing in the right direction. They seem to be getting more on song about the environment and other important issues rather than prattling on about peoples sex lives. Perhaps Desmond Tutu's take is actually starting to sink in and move them in a better direction for us all?

I can't help think that the backhanded complement to RD is about getting a little closer to your enemy...but that's very unchristian of me and for once perhaps he's espousing some love for his fellow man no matter their creed.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:49:00 UTC | #99444

Paula Kirby's Avatar Comment 10 by Paula Kirby

The Archbishop also singled out for praise the atheist Richard Dawkins, the Oxford professor recently outed as a carol singer, whom he described as being in touch with the "amazement and awe" of God's creation.
Yeah, yeah, in other words: God's so wonderful, even the world's most famous atheist is gobsmacked by him. Fortunately, who cares what the Archbishop of Canterbury says? The bit about RD making a programme on evolution for Channel 4 is, however, very good news indeed.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:51:00 UTC | #99448

al-rawandi's Avatar Comment 11 by al-rawandi

I don't know if RD scrolls through these posts, if he does...

Don't worry, I am sure if you scrub hard enough that might come off.

I threw up in my mouth, just a little, reading that.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:52:00 UTC | #99450

phil rimmer's Avatar Comment 12 by phil rimmer

How is the change going to happen? How will the religious come to recognize that we atheists are not sad lost, barely moral creatures with a great big God-shaped hole in us? Despite claims to the contrary from some religious leaders, this statement regarding RD, marks our (atheist) aesthetic sensibilities as being FULLY intact, at least.

Though the compliment is back-handed it stands and cannot reasonably be retracted. This is a firm step to saying that God is not in here (touches head and heart) but out there (waves arm). From theist to deist from deist to....cured....

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:10:00 UTC | #99458

Diacanu's Avatar Comment 13 by Diacanu

eXcommunicate-

Hell, I like singing "12 Days of Christmas" with my extended family every Christmas, but that doesn't mean I do it for the "awe" and "inspiration" I get from the "Christian Message"[TM].


You do it cuz you want all those rings, and birds, and pears, right?

And hey, what about those 5 maids a milking?
:P

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:12:00 UTC | #99462

liddlefeesh's Avatar Comment 15 by liddlefeesh

He likened Professor Dawkins' understanding of the beauty of the world around us with that of St John of the Cross, the 16th-century mystic.


Ahhh, a back-handed compliment! We're at least 1/2 way there...

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:27:00 UTC | #99471

icanus's Avatar Comment 14 by icanus

So the senior representative (who as part of the job gets to live in what is officially termed a palace) of one of the biggest land owners in britain, with an anual incomewell in excess of half a billion pounds, is denouncing human greed?

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:27:00 UTC | #99470

DCPirana's Avatar Comment 16 by DCPirana

This is all very much in line with what I learned growing up in the Episcopal church... What I find disquieting, however, is the suggestion that compassion is simply a part of Christianity and not a part of our humanity. I haven't gotten around to reading anything on evolutionary psychology yet, but I'm quite convinced that philanthropy does not stem from Christianity but from something more universal.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:35:00 UTC | #99474

FXR's Avatar Comment 17 by FXR

Mr. Rowan William is no doubt a nice man and means well. He also seems to be a reasonable individual with a conscience. To any rational individual compared to Herr Ratzinger he is by far the more acceptable religious leader of the two. What does it say about the true believers that Ratzinger is gaining adherents and Mr. Williams is losing them?
It's also unfortunate that even his piece above carries some of the poisons of organised religionism. Firstly there's the overbearing arrogance of claiming someone is demonstrating the myths that religion claims even though that person is diametrically opposed to such beliefs.
Secondly there's the repeated myth that there is some positive message inherent in Christianity. The message of Christianity is anti-human. Its demotes the human race to being the pawns of an invisible super-nosey invisible alien and treats our only home, the Earth, as a mere waiting room for some imaginary theme park built around clouds, po-faced harpists and winged interplanetary effeminate hippies wearing garments made from curtains.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:44:00 UTC | #99478

Naughty Mr Crocodile's Avatar Comment 18 by Naughty Mr Crocodile

I agree with everything Rowan Williams says, except for the places he mentions God, which are superflous and unnecessary.

Go through what he says, changing "we must do X because God says/does/expects that blah blah blah..." into simply "we must do X", and it still makes perfect sense.

Occam's Razor, Dr Williams?

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:45:00 UTC | #99479

SurfDude's Avatar Comment 19 by SurfDude

14. Comment #104364 by icanus

So the senior representative (who as part of the job gets to live in what is officially termed a palace) of one of the biggest land owners in britain, with an anual incomewell in excess of half a billion pounds, is denouncing human greed?
Since when have religions ever done anything more original than simply responding to the zeitgeist? Hypocrisy (and the associated cognitive dissonance) is a central requirement of all theism.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:51:00 UTC | #99482

SurfDude's Avatar Comment 20 by SurfDude

Ha! Nice one Sleep of Reason. I shall be sure to learn that one for the next time anyone is foolish enough to knock on my door ....

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:02:00 UTC | #99490

automath's Avatar Comment 21 by automath

Haven't read it yet.

_J_ - I'm growing quite proud of, and impressed by, our Archbishops.


But if you like this read up on the Scout Movement on Wikipedia. Compare and contrast the UK version against the American Christian Fascist one.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:04:00 UTC | #99491

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 22 by Steve Zara

Yeah, yeah, in other words: God's so wonderful, even the world's most famous atheist is gobsmacked by him.


This cracked me up. Trust you to cut through all the nonsense to get to the truth.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:06:00 UTC | #99492

Blake C. Stacey's Avatar Comment 23 by Blake C. Stacey

I think that "Professor Dawkins' understanding of the beauty of the world around us" far exceeds that of any sixteenth-century mystic, for the simple reason that he — and most of the people commenting on this website — knows more about that world around us than did the mystics of a less enlightened age.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:11:00 UTC | #99494

Diacanu's Avatar Comment 24 by Diacanu

I wish there was an archbishop of Cadbury, and all he did was hand out chocolate to children.

That would be more humanitarian than what these fuckin' regular bishops do with themselves.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:19:00 UTC | #99497

al-rawandi's Avatar Comment 25 by al-rawandi

Diacanu,


I think the bishops are busy with children. Just I don't know about the chocolate.

The Catholics are brilliant...

Really old dude 1:
"Let's create a religious institution where we make the sole qualification sexual abnormality and deviance, give them the power over people, and turn them loose with some kids."

really old dude 2 (looks like guy from Guiness commercial):
"Brilliant!"

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:24:00 UTC | #99498

Steve Wrathall's Avatar Comment 26 by Steve Wrathall

"When we threaten the balance of things, we don't just put our material survival at risk..."
More evidence that our craving to believe in apocalyptism is probably evolutionarily hotwired.
So many religious "moderates", now too embarrassed to sell Revelations et.al., jump on the "climate alarmism" bandwagon. A brilliant fit as they have the same aversion to material wellbeing and love of human suffering as the deep green religios.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:32:00 UTC | #99501

annabanana's Avatar Comment 27 by annabanana

Diacanu, you make me laugh. And I think you use the f-word more than I do, which is a feat. I do try to restrict my language here, though. I seem to have a hard enough time getting people to take me seriously as it is, minus the swearing...

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:33:00 UTC | #99503

kaiserkriss's Avatar Comment 28 by kaiserkriss

Just because RD enjoys and appreciates a certain kind of music doesn't mean RW gets to make a bunch of suppositions about him.

Along those lines, I wonder if RW would still appreciate coral music if the texts were laced with satanic verses, or what he would refer to as blasphemy? Does RW like the music because of the religious overtones of the lyrics, or does he simply appreciate the music? Think of Coral music with "Black Sabbath" lyrics if you may..

Think about it for a moment... I like some Xmas music for its tonal qualities, not the lyrics, which in most cases leave a lot to be desired.jcw

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:35:00 UTC | #99504

Matt H.'s Avatar Comment 29 by Matt H.

I just hate how he uses the word 'creation' repeatedly. Of course he's not referring to creationism, ie. literal story of creation, dinosaurs with men etc, but it is quite misleading, some could misunderstand his meaning.

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:38:00 UTC | #99507

Mwangangi's Avatar Comment 30 by Mwangangi

Dr John Sentamu : [snip] ...God-Carrier...[/snip]


That's perfect. It's always so muddled to try to refer to people as believers and other people as believers in (religious) belief. Now I can call them God-Carriers, and God-Infected...

Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:45:00 UTC | #99509