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← Ben Stein Bribing Schools to See His Anti-Evolution Movie 'Expelled'

Ben Stein Bribing Schools to See His Anti-Evolution Movie 'Expelled' - Comments

Storeo's Avatar Comment 1 by Storeo

Oh dear,

'Stein has written publicly to denounce the theory of evolution ("Darwinism," as he terms it), declaring it to be "a painful, bloody chapter in the history of ideologies," "the most compelling argument yet for Imperialism," and the inspiration for the Holocaust.'

Its interesting that a former-lawyer has the confidence to speak out about uprooting one of cornerstones of modern biology despite not having any qualifications in this field of study. How does America keep producing these kinds of people?

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:14:00 UTC | #107198

Mishakal's Avatar Comment 2 by Mishakal

Just because Ben Stein is an expert in Economics does NOT give him the ability to assault the single most important foundation of Biological Science.

I've lost all respect for him!

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:14:00 UTC | #107200

AshtonBlack's Avatar Comment 3 by AshtonBlack

Completely hatstand....

If this is even released outside of the US I'd be suprised.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:24:00 UTC | #107207

jimbob's Avatar Comment 4 by jimbob

Since when is evolution an "ideology?"

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:26:00 UTC | #107209

Chrono_Tata's Avatar Comment 5 by Chrono_Tata

Not Muslim, or Jewish schools?

At least here's an intelligent designerist who doesn't even try to hide the fact that they are simply trying to put religion... make that Christianity, in science classes.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:30:00 UTC | #107213

annabanana's Avatar Comment 6 by annabanana

These people are nothing but dishonest. First, they misrepresent what the film's intention is, now this. It's pathetic that they have to be so dishonest and use bribery to promote their film.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:31:00 UTC | #107214

al-rawandi's Avatar Comment 7 by al-rawandi


There are those that would question his economic theories.


How does America keep producing these kinds of people?

As an American I can only guess it is due to the habit of people copulating next to a running microwave. I think this does something to the offspring.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:31:00 UTC | #107215

Glen Davidson's Avatar Comment 8 by Glen Davidson

More Stein nonsense:

I made some comments on other blogs, which I'll repeat here:

The most striking bit from Stein was this one:

[Stein says]
I think we say it can respond to changes in the world around them and that neo-Darwinians say it can only do that by random chance - it only happens by random chance. We say the cell may have the possibility of doing itself in an intelligent way that there may be some intelligence in the cell itself so that's probably a big difference between the two of us. We, on this side, think at least there's a possibility. We believe there's some possibility the cell could have an intelligence of its own.

[Emphases added]

Now compare this to his accusation against real scientists:

and the Darwinists have no theory whatsoever about the origin of life, none whatsoever, except the most hazy, the kind of preposterous, New Age hypothesis.

Yeah, sorry that we didn't think about pre-cells or chemicals having some kind of intelligence. That would be real science.

Not to mention that he has no clue about the speculations and experiments of the abiogenesis researchers.

Then there's this doltish claim:

Science should always be in the business of attempting to disprove itself.

After that he projects that we're trying to rationalize, when he can't begin to support ID or to come up with any meaningful criticisms of "Darwinism".

A bit of irony:

Well, I would say it's creationism by someone. For me, I've always believed that there was a God. I've always believed that God created the heavens and earth - so, for me it's not a huge leap from there to intelligent design

Why no, it's just not that big a leap after all. Sorry that I said it was (or did I?).

Here's the guy "questioning" Stein:

[Cybercast News Service:]
There is a segment in the film, where it's made clear that intelligent design can open up new areas of inquiry that could improve the human condition. One involves a neurosurgeon, Michael Egnor, and another scientist, Jon Wells, who indicate that given how the cells are put together, with eye toward intelligent design, and with the idea that animal cells have tiny turbines - or if viewed as tiny turbines - he was able to formulate a theory that said in the event these things malfunction and don't properly shut down and could break apart, this is the first step on the way to cancer.

There you are Egnor, who's as clueless as a mole watching a shuttle launch (at least in this subject), and Jon Wells with his tired turbine BS, which was neither really predicated upon ID, nor did it turn out to be correct. Apparently it's in the movie, though, at least so far. Stein's actually more sensible about this bit than the interviewer is:

And I was just overwhelmed by the fact, at least as I am told, that Darwinists have never observed natural species being originated ... There's not even a clear definition of what a species is

You could probably overwhelm this ignoramus with the fact that a 10 km. asteroid has never been seen to hit earth and cause the devastation that "new age" scientists say would occur, and that stars have never been seen forming.

And of course the prediction of MET that species would not be a clear and simple category, due to evolution, becomes in this creationist's mind an argument against scientists.

Seems, too, that we've progressed from being Nazis to being Marxists:

I think there is this kind of Marxist establishment in this country that has been overthrown in other countries, but not overthrown here. There is a very powerful Marxist establishment within the intelligentsia that does not allow questioning of its premises.

Glen D

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:33:00 UTC | #107217

gtcc's Avatar Comment 9 by gtcc

I would have thought this news item would appear on RD website:
"Pope cancels trip to Rome university after protests"

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:35:00 UTC | #107221

Paula Kirby's Avatar Comment 10 by Paula Kirby

As an American I can only guess it is due to the habit of people copulating next to a running microwave.
I never cease to marvel at just how much I learn on this website ;-)

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:35:00 UTC | #107222

AshtonBlack's Avatar Comment 11 by AshtonBlack

The thing is...

The "reach" for this kind of shenanigans is surely limited to "Christian Schools?

I'd hope there'd be an uproar if this was adopted at anything approaching a public/state school?

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:47:00 UTC | #107233

al-rawandi's Avatar Comment 12 by al-rawandi


Be Stein is Jewish. But he taught at Pepperdine and his wife is a Christian.


I am full of good facts.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:54:00 UTC | #107236

pdiff's Avatar Comment 13 by pdiff

Hmmmm .... So all we have to do is stand outside the theater, collect ticket stubs from people coming out, pool our collections, and claim our money! Would make a nice donation for the RDF! :-)


Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:55:00 UTC | #107237

Prankster's Avatar Comment 14 by Prankster

Stein.....the result of cousins marrying and breeding surely?

Priceless -hasn't got a grasp on the subject at all but to discredit it he actually attempts to BRIBE children and schools in order to get his "meisterwerk" seen.....what a turd eh?

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:58:00 UTC | #107241

annabanana's Avatar Comment 15 by annabanana


Yes, I think this only applies to private schools. If this occurred in public schools, I'm sure it would go to court. There'd have to be at least one intelligent parent that wouldn't have it. I think it would probably also be unconstitutional.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:58:00 UTC | #107242

AshtonBlack's Avatar Comment 16 by AshtonBlack


Phew :)

Hmm... . I wonder what the ratio is in the American Education System of Private/Faith etc to Public schools.? (runs off to Google)

edit: "10 percent of the total elementary and secondary enrolment in the United States in 2003-2004."
"Of that 10% (28000 approx) only 29% (6800 approx) are counted as non-sectarian."

Still 10% that's quite a large target to go for.

(However, I'm hopeful that most science teachers in these establishments would see through this crock.)

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:02:00 UTC | #107243

Paula Kirby's Avatar Comment 18 by Paula Kirby

and the Darwinists have no theory whatsoever about the origin of life, none whatsoever, except the most hazy, the kind of preposterous, New Age hypothesis
You know, he's got a point. Believing that God took a handful of dust and breathed life into it is WAY more reasonable than just saying "We don't know yet". Honestly - these scientists really should get their act together.

By the way, why don't we make more of the fact that God clearly wasn't thinking straight when he created humans? Chapter 1 of Genesis suggests he created male and female at the same time, but chapter 2 makes it clear that that the creation of Eve was an afterthought, only occurring to God AFTER Adam had learned all the names of the rivers and the plants, and had named the animals. This rather steep learning curve must have taken Adam some time to conquer, so it's very unlikely to have all happened on his very first day of existence. Adam was created on the 6th day, God rested on the 7th day - which can only mean that Eve wasn't created until AFTER the 6 days in which God allegedly created EVERYTHING.

Wasn't it a pretty fundamental oversight on God's part to forget to create female humans until all the rest of his design work was finished? Can it be that no one had told him the facts of life?

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:08:00 UTC | #107245

gyokusai's Avatar Comment 17 by gyokusai


Then again: as far as I can guess, it would not be considered legal for public schools to go for something like Stein's Slime Money, but for Christian schools, sure, no problem. Which says a lot about nurturing Christian madrasahs in one's country! And wasn't the English government also promoting faith-based schools full throttle, recently?

All things considered, pathetic as it may be, it still spells d-o-o-m for science education.


Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:08:00 UTC | #107244

room101's Avatar Comment 19 by room101

Hmmm..maybe Stein is worried that no one is going to want to see this film, and this is an attempt to put rear-ends in the seats. I can't really see why the devoted would rush to see it anyway - if you believe, you believe.

Clearly he's worried that it might go straight to video.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:10:00 UTC | #107246

Glen Davidson's Avatar Comment 20 by Glen Davidson

I suppose I ought to point out that the title is wrong. The children are not being bribed, the schools are being bribed to make the kids go (sure, they might not absolutely have to go, but the "good students" would).

I wish it were as simple as them giving out free tickets, or pay to fill the seats. That would be gaming the system, all right, but at least it wouldn't be such a devious tactic. As it is, the schools get the money, and the kids are screwed twice, once by having to buy the ticket, and a second time by having to listen to such dreck.

Dr. Wes Elsberry tells it like it is, here:

Glen Davidson

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:11:00 UTC | #107247

ianmkz's Avatar Comment 21 by ianmkz

By the way, why don't we make more of the fact that God clearly wasn't thinking straight when he created humans?

That's like asking why it took Him 6 days to create the world, but 190 days to destroy it. (Noah - 40 days of rain and 150 days for the waters to abate)

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:13:00 UTC | #107248

D'Arcy's Avatar Comment 22 by D'Arcy

Does Stein think that he has expelled Darwin from science? Whilst modern economists have ideas that equate with those of the theologians, full of mysticism, lacking accurate predictions, and of little use to humanity, they serve the purpose of not letting the dog see the rabbit.

Keep people's mind confused, and they will put up with all kinds of poison, especially if they think the real show is in the next life.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:24:00 UTC | #107250

notsobad's Avatar Comment 23 by notsobad

Religious dogma at work. Either that or I can't think what else than dogma could turn you into a zombie who wants to do everything possible to harm science and reason.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:28:00 UTC | #107252

Goldy's Avatar Comment 24 by Goldy

Paula, having a quick gander over Genesis ( I see he made man and wman on the 6th day and told them to be fruitful etc. 7th day he tidied heaven and Earth...but here's a good one - he forgot about rain! D'Oh!!

2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Of course, the italicised buit is odd because, as you say, earlier we had 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Must've meant farmers or something....
Mind you, the next time someone says we're acting like gods with our science, we can come back with
3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Us? One of us?? The royal we?
Man, one can have fun with the Bible!
Anyway, back to your point - men and women were created on the 6th day, Adam was created after the 7 days along with rain and Eve came about way afterwards. And God talks of himself in the plural....
How is it no one picks up on these for thousands of years?

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:31:00 UTC | #107253

D'Arcy's Avatar Comment 25 by D'Arcy

You know, he's got a point. Believing that God took a handful of dust and breathed life into it is WAY more reasonable than just saying "We don't know yet"

Unfortunately, from the biblical point of view, the elements in the human body are somewhat different from those found in the Earth's crust.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:33:00 UTC | #107255

Goldy's Avatar Comment 26 by Goldy

6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Was Jesus the only begotten son of God? Hmmm, methinks something should be explained here ;-)
Edit - sorry, back to topic. Only at chapter 6 adn so many inconsistencies. And yet people are willing to base their whole lives on this...and impose their views on others! Like this Stein bloke..

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:35:00 UTC | #107257

Paula Kirby's Avatar Comment 27 by Paula Kirby

Goldy: Paula, having a quick gander over Genesis ( I see he made man and wman on the 6th day and told them to be fruitful etc
Yes, chapter 1 has it ok. But chapter 2 goes into the creation of man in more detail and from there it's clear that there must have been at least a few days' delay between the creation of Adam and the creation of Eve. And, given that Adam didn't arrive until day 6, that puts Eve outside the "creation timeframe".

Great, isn't it? 2 chapters in, and already the bible has contradicted itself! :-)

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:36:00 UTC | #107258

AllanW's Avatar Comment 28 by AllanW

gtcc has already showed a canny school administrator how to make money for their school. Spend a weekend outside the cinema, collect stubs, hand-in and collect cash. No propoganda necessary to be endured.

And if enough schools try to pull the scam then the producers either lose a lot of money or we get a nice story about how they welched on the deal :)

Go to it School Administrators of America! Do your duty!

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:37:00 UTC | #107259

Paula Kirby's Avatar Comment 29 by Paula Kirby

Goldy: And God talks of himself in the plural....
Well, there are three of him!

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:38:00 UTC | #107260

al-rawandi's Avatar Comment 30 by al-rawandi


Isn't Stein Jewish? Or did he convert?

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:42:00 UTC | #107262