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John Templeton: God's sugar daddy - Comments

Logicel's Avatar Comment 1 by Logicel

Another 'love' junkie. Give me due process, democracy, evolution-based altruism, access to human rights, etc. anytime over this bowing down to an absolute notion of love as an entity and as a force for good.

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 06:46:00 UTC | #140931

the way's Avatar Comment 2 by the way

In general, the problem with our culture is narcissism, solipsism and selfishness," ....'Just love and let everything else take care of itself'

Am I misunderstanding something here?

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 07:58:00 UTC | #140950

Corylus's Avatar Comment 3 by Corylus

Years later, Dr. Templeton repaid the favour by giving up his medical practice to help safeguard his father's legacy; a legacy summed up in the Book of Matthew's parable of the hidden treasure.
I see. Stop with the hard work looking after sick people and look after a heap of money instead. Reading about such wondrous self-sacrifice and care for others makes me go all gooey inside.
Is it possible to prosper too much? The heir to the Templeton legacy thinks not.

"The more you have," he says, "the more you can give away."
Yes, and the more superior you can feel when you do so.

Daddy sounds unusual and psychologically fascinating. Junior, however, sounds dreadfully common.

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:12:00 UTC | #140959

brian thomson's Avatar Comment 4 by brian thomson

"We can cure all the malaria we want, but if we're living brutal, nasty, empty lives, it will only do so much good."

Good? Good for whom? Sounds like another version of Mother Teresa's "cult of suffering" - the idea that physical suffering is acceptable, as long as the rational thought about your condition is avoided.

There is no nobility in suffering, especially if that suffering is avoidable! Have I lost a week somewhere, and it's April 1 already?

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:40:00 UTC | #140973

fides_et_ratio's Avatar Comment 5 by fides_et_ratio

2. Comment #148494 by Verylee on March 23, 2008 at 7:58 am

Am I misunderstanding something here?

It would seems so. The following definition of love might help.

'Love is always patient and kind; love is never jealous; love is not boastful or conceited, it is never rude and never seeks its own advantage, it does not take offence or store up grievances. Love does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but finds its joy in the truth. It is always ready to make allowances, to trust, to hope and to endure whatever comes. Love never comes to an end.'

Happy Easter.

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:31:00 UTC | #141003

Pattern Seeker's Avatar Comment 6 by Pattern Seeker

(drum roll)

And the winner of the 2008 Bunny H. Christ Prize goes to...

Professor Richard Dawkins!

For his unwavering, and unmitigated support of my non-existence. Thank you for always not believing in me. Your faithlessness should inspire us all. My Non-Self Blesses You.

'Happy Beaster'

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:33:00 UTC | #141005

Dr Benway's Avatar Comment 7 by Dr Benway

Love is outsmarting the tax man.

Love is dominating your extended family in a mini-van.

Love is tempting people to lie for you.

Meh. Talk of "love" and "God" and "prayer," and people will line up to hand over their hard-earned money. Anyone who "loves God" must be trustworthy, right?


Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:44:00 UTC | #141007

the way's Avatar Comment 8 by the way

@ fides_et_ratio.
I should have known better than to try and be ironic, when every post is critically examined by all! That was a response worthy of weeflea! I guess the nuance was not picked up....I apologise for not being clearer.

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:56:00 UTC | #141012

fides_et_ratio's Avatar Comment 9 by fides_et_ratio

8. Comment #148563 by Verylee on March 23, 2008 at 9:56 am

I apologise for not being clearer

No worries, I genuinely got the impression that you didn't follow his train of thought. I'm not a Septic, so should pick up on irony.

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:09:00 UTC | #141019

alexmzk's Avatar Comment 10 by alexmzk

seems to me like an awful case of obscence wealth(tm)


Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:39:00 UTC | #141026

D'Arcy's Avatar Comment 12 by D'Arcy

The article makes a vaporous point about the difference between what Templeton gives away, and what Bill Gates gives away. Personally, I'd rather see some way of combatting malaria than an increased convergence of "spirituality" and science.

The fact that there are very rich people in the world (not many), and far more not so rich or positively poverty stricken, says more about the nature of capitalism than it does about spirituality.

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:24:00 UTC | #141083

Jiten's Avatar Comment 13 by Jiten

Templeton's money sullies science.I'd be uneasy accepting grant money from them.

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 14:53:00 UTC | #141110

asupcb's Avatar Comment 14 by asupcb

I am so tired of hearing this myth about huge disparities of wealth being something inherent to capitalism because such disparities are most certainly not inherent to capitalism. Huge disparities of wealth do not exist in capitalistic regimes until corporations are extended the limited liability and sovereign immunity of the state to the contracts that make up said corporation through the passing of either corporate enabling laws or through the bribery in creating and regulating corporate charters such as the East India company of old. It is the removal of liability and personal responsibility from contractual relations that causes these problems which are associated incorrectly with capitalism in general, instead of the state intervention into voluntary markets which is where the problem actually arises from.

Here are some select quotes dealing with this topic which I feel explain the concept better than I can at this current time:

"The directors of such [joint-stock] companies, however, being the managers rather of other people's money than of their own, it cannot well be expected, that they should watch over it with the same anxious vigilance with which the partners in a private copartnery frequently watch over their own.... Negligence and profusion, therefore, must always prevail, more or less, in the management of the affairs of such a company." ~Adam Smith

"A corporation or an industry is, if we were to think of it in political terms, fascist; that is, it has tight control at the top and strict obedience has to be established at every level â€" there's a little bargaining, a little give and take, but the line of authority is perfectly straightforward.... I'd love to see centralized power eliminated, whether it's the state or the economy, and have it diffused and ultimately under direct control of the participants." ~ Noam Chomsky

"Corporations, which previously had been considered artificial entities with no rights, were accorded all the rights of persons, and far more, since they are "immortal persons," and "persons" of extraordinary wealth and power. Furthermore, they were no longer bound to the specific purposes designated by State charter, but could act as they chose, with few constraints." ~ Noam Chomsky with regard to corporate "enabling laws"

"Corporation: An ingenious device for obtaining [individual] profit without individual responsibility." ~ Ambrose Bierce

In the United States you did not see widespread disparity of wealth (outside of the slave states) until after the civil war because corporate enabling laws were not passed here until after the Civil War in the 1860's in Delaware and which were quickly extended under the rather tyrannical control of the "Radical Republican" Reconstruction era regime which later became known for its widespread corruption, including corruption which would lead to enriching many of the robber-barons of 19th century America.

The power of government is more typically used to enrich one group of individuals over another than prevent massive accumulation of wealth as is seen in the so-called "mixed market" or "social market" economies of Westernized civilizations. This should not be surprising to anyone as the rich have more resources with which to influence the state and those who control it than do the masses who are easily propagandized into believing the most outrageous things.

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:29:00 UTC | #141225

clodhopper's Avatar Comment 15 by clodhopper

"he's just a boy from Tennessee"....

....a very very naughty boy...another one.

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:49:00 UTC | #141380

Patrick McArdle's Avatar Comment 16 by Patrick McArdle

"We can cure all the malaria we want, but if we're living brutal, nasty, empty lives, it will only do so much good."

Never in my life have I read anything which prompted the thought, "this person needs a malaria infection." Until now.

"...long ago renounced his citizenship and took up residence in the Bahamas, a tax haven..."

Way to show your pride in having grown up in the Land of Opportunity, dude. (Bill Gates still lives in the American State of Washington, where he was raised.)

"In 1939, he was young and living in a seedy Manhattan walk-up when he took an almost unthinkable risk. He borrowed $10,000 and bought $100 worth of every stock then valued at less than $1 a share on the New York Stock Exchange."

OK, I'll ask: where THE HECK did he get TEN GRAND, in the Great Depression? What did he pledge as collateral, the Brooklyn Bridge? Who co-signed for this loan, and attendant scheme? What's the real story here, and why won't anyone tell us? Oh yeah, money buys a lot of silence. Especially when the truth could cause such trouble.

"It looked like madness, but Germany had just invaded Poland and he felt the looming war would drive up the market. All but four of 104 stocks he bought turned a profit. "

And people say Hitler never did any good in our world! Seriously, in fifty years are we going to read about the Halliburton Prize for Spirituality and War Profiteering? Juvenal snidely noted that "money carries no smell", and his ancient wisdom remains with us still.

'Such charges irritate Charles Taylor. "It's utterly insulting to think that anyone who got this prize in natural science was bought over," he fires back. "A scientific culture is very badly conceived if it wants to set aside spiritual concerns." '

Not only does a great gob of money carry no smell, it's spiritual too! Thanks for clearing that up for us, doc. Meanwhile, let's talk about evidence, and how nothing spiritual or monetary should trump it in science. Remember that?

No wonder Dr. Dawkins, in The God Delusion, spends so many words on this corrupting and corrupted prize.

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:54:00 UTC | #141428

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 17 by irate_atheist

Isn't it funny how the ultimate omnipotent deity needs so much help?

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:17:00 UTC | #141475

LeeLeeOne's Avatar Comment 18 by LeeLeeOne

Dr. Benway and Irate:

Succinct and minimalistic. Perfect! Once again, education is not shown in the 'volume' of words proffered.

Fewer selective spoken words which are insightfully chosen and placed forces one to seek and self-educate.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:21:00 UTC | #141516

Johnny O's Avatar Comment 19 by Johnny O

Now, having made and saved more money than most people can imagine

What's that story about the camel and the eye of a needle again...

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:29:00 UTC | #141520

Jonathan Dore's Avatar Comment 20 by Jonathan Dore

"We can cure all the malaria we want, but if we're living brutal, nasty, empty lives, it will only do so much good."

Can I just underline the fact that this quote is from a professor of bioethics? bioETHICS?! I certainly wouldn't want to buy a used ethic from this man, bio or otherwise. Does it not occur to him that having malaria might actually be a major reason why many millions of people lead brutal and nasty lives in the first place? It's a thoughtless comment probably not uncommon in someone who's never lived in a tropical zone in which such lethal diseases are endemic, but that's the sort of thoughtless ignorance anyone holding the title of professor (in any subject) should be ashamed to be caught spouting.

Interesting to see both he and Charles Taylor independently pooh-poohing the philanthropy of Bill Gates. Must be hard for believers, accustomed to seeing overtly faith-based charity taking such a large share of the limelight, come to terms with the fact that non-theists like Gates and Buffet are making all the running in philanthropy that actually has a connection to the real world.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:40:00 UTC | #141555

List_of_small_things's Avatar Comment 21 by List_of_small_things

asupbc - Reading some decent chapters on market failure in accredited text books should cure that unfortunate set of non-sequiturs

Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:24:00 UTC | #147918