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← Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats' - Comments

ThoughtsonCommonToad's Avatar Comment 1 by ThoughtsonCommonToad

Fitna accuses Islam of being a violent religion. Well that's been proven to be lies and propaganda by the insidious mendicant Geert Wilders hasn't it. Islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion.
Oh wait....

Islam World's Biggest Religion

There will be a massive uprising of peace loving Muslims to denounce the threats of violence and crippling of free speech. Let us hope.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:37:00 UTC | #144565

gyokusai's Avatar Comment 2 by gyokusai

In one scene,the sound of paper ripping can be seen as a reader pages through the Quran.


Directly followed by a written statement that the ripping sound was from a page ripped from the telephone book, and that it is up to Muslims themselves to "rip out" the violent passages from the Koran.

This is not an endorsement, I'm just telling.
^_^J.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:38:00 UTC | #144566

Johnny O's Avatar Comment 3 by Johnny O

This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net

And we all know whose side the politicians and religious leaders will come down on... that of the ignorant, intolerant bigots that threaten violence against those that espouse a view that is contrary to their own.

The one good thing is that corroborates the film's message

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:40:00 UTC | #144568

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 4 by PrimeNumbers

I watched the movie as soon as I'd heard it was online. I was disappointed that the point of the movie was not made more clearly, in that so called "moderate" Muslims need to rise up and be counted as moral human beings, who despise violence done in the name of their chosen religion, and excise passages from their holy book that promote or are used to promote such violence. I am however, happy, that the message of the movie was, when you watched it carefully, a reasonable one.

One of the reasons why the Catholics have such large numbers, is that even those who no longer believe in the tenants of that faith, don't leave the Catholic church. The problem with Islam is worse, in that there is a death sentence for any that want to leave or do leave.

So the first step is to change that. We need Muslims the world over to denounce the killing of those that leave their religion, and to enforce the basic human right of freedom of choice. It is totally morally unacceptable to intimidate or kill someone for their own freedom of choice over religion.

After that all religion needs to be put in it's place - personal beliefs to stay with the person, at home, in private.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:43:00 UTC | #144569

bujin's Avatar Comment 5 by bujin

I watched it this morning - looks like I caught it just in time! It's a highly disturbing film, and the threats against the LiveLeak staff are proving the whole point of the film.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:44:00 UTC | #144570

Dog Boots's Avatar Comment 6 by Dog Boots

It takes a rare kind of intellectual stomach to bring oneself to threaten people for bringing a movie critizing people for threatening others.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:45:00 UTC | #144571

Roy_H's Avatar Comment 7 by Roy_H

Now what was Richard's two part TV documentary called again....Ah yes, "The Root of All Evil"

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:46:00 UTC | #144572

Jimbesity's Avatar Comment 8 by Jimbesity

Muslims know no irony. First with the pictures of people holding signs reading, "Behead those who say Islam is violent!" and now this. It is truly a pity.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:50:00 UTC | #144574

gyokusai's Avatar Comment 9 by gyokusai

"Behead those who say Islam is violent!"


That pic was a spoof.

^_^J.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:53:00 UTC | #144575

ThoughtsonCommonToad's Avatar Comment 10 by ThoughtsonCommonToad

I assume the ill informed reporting the LiveLeak cites as a reason for the withdrawal comes from the upstanding and considered source the Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=548528&in_page_id=1770
Dutch MP Geert Wilders claims to be all about freedom of expression - but is he about to engulf Britain in a holy war?

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:54:00 UTC | #144576

irvine.intervention's Avatar Comment 11 by irvine.intervention

"In one scene,the sound of paper ripping can be seen as a reader pages through the Quran"


How do you see the sound of paper ripping - unless you're a synesthete?

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:04:00 UTC | #144581

kaeru's Avatar Comment 12 by kaeru

Wilders, the "concerned" Dutch government and the press all worked very hard to provoke threats. Seems like they finally found some idiots willing to be offended. I see tools on all sides of this.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:06:00 UTC | #144582

gyokusai's Avatar Comment 13 by gyokusai

irvine.intervention sez:

How do you see the sound of paper ripping - unless you're a synesthete?


Took 11 comments---way more than I expected! But it was worth the wait, for such a clever line. Thanks! :-)) [no irony, I mean it!]

^_^J.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:14:00 UTC | #144583

Adam Morrison's Avatar Comment 14 by Adam Morrison

re: Kaeru

I thought that would be the case before I saw the film, but it wasn't as bad as it has been made out to be by the media. The other aspect of that is of course, that it takes very little to cause these people (militant islamists) to react with violence and death threats.

I'm not crazy about the politician or the film, but the film was definitely a lot tamer than it could have been and he was definitely within the rights of free speech and not hate speech. Of course the point he was trying to make about the link between Islam and violence has only been proven (tentatively) correct by the threats agains the webhost.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:21:00 UTC | #144585

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 17 by rod-the-farmer

I watched it before it was taken down, and found it less "offensive" than I anticipated. The idea that muslims would object so strongly to a film critical of the violence in some areas of the muslim faith rather proves his point, I suggest. I wish I had the ability to personally host the movie. I will ask my ISP if they would allow it. If enough of us flood the world with the movie, it may help make his point.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:38:00 UTC | #144592

Beteo's Avatar Comment 16 by Beteo

Good thing I linked to the Google Video at my blog. Sort of saw this coming tho... Sad and sickening at the same time.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:38:00 UTC | #144591

gyokusai's Avatar Comment 18 by gyokusai

Here's an excellent article from the online edition of the renowned German news magazine Spiegel. Hopefully they'll release the article in English too; as soon as they do, I'll post the link:

Der Populist, der keiner ist von Henryk M. Broder

I'm too tired now for a paraphrase-translation, so if anyone else'd like to have a go at it, be my guest. It's pretty much the sentiment you'd expect to hear from most people posting here on the RD site.

^_^J.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:49:00 UTC | #144595

kaeru's Avatar Comment 19 by kaeru

But... what was his point? After the Danish cartoons, Submission and "Muhammad" there is nothing left to prove, or so I thought.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:53:00 UTC | #144596

dazzjazz's Avatar Comment 20 by dazzjazz

What a shame - fuckwits win again. I approve of the film - it exposes Islam for what it is.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:59:00 UTC | #144598

gyokusai's Avatar Comment 21 by gyokusai

kaeru sez:

But... what was his point? After the Danish cartoons, Submission and "Muhammad" there is nothing left to prove, or so I thought.


It's not supposed to prove anything about Islam. It's supposed to prove a lot about Western cowardice instead: as Broder correctly states in his (German language) article I linked to above, Wilders managed to reveal "new levels of lameness" (my wording, not his) in provoking knee-jerk reactions from the Western media and public apologies from politicians for months before anyone was even sure the movie would ever exist!

And boy, did proving that point did work out rather well.

^_^J.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:03:00 UTC | #144599

RobDinsmore's Avatar Comment 23 by RobDinsmore

So does the extent to which the Koran in more brutal and intolerant than the account for why Muslim fundamentalists are more violent that xtian ones? Or is it more of a matter of numbers?

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:04:00 UTC | #144602

JackR's Avatar Comment 22 by JackR

So let's link it again.

These idiots really don't get the web, do they?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3369102968312745410

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:04:00 UTC | #144600

adam2z's Avatar Comment 24 by adam2z

It is a terrible blow to the ideology of free speech and freedom on the internet that a group of muslims succeeded in censoring LiveLeak. I sincerely believe that the video should be online. (And i hope google does not remove it).

That said, it was crap.

It uses nothing but scare tactics clearly designed to insight anger in order to get its point across.

If the secular, or even anti-islamist societies of the world want to get their point across - and they have a point well worth debating - they should do so without careening into the chasm that is fear mongering. They must take the high ground.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:22:00 UTC | #144607

kaeru's Avatar Comment 25 by kaeru

I still don't get it. Nobody of those who couldn't have predicted the threats, the preëmptive apologies, the media outrage and Broder's usual ramblings will suddenly start glowing with enlightenment now.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:25:00 UTC | #144609

JackR's Avatar Comment 26 by JackR

adam2z: absolutely. I thought the film was god-awful, button-pushing propaganda and about what I'd expect from a xenophobic right-wing arsehole like Wilders. It made Memri look fair and balanced. But by hell I will not tolerate the assault on freedom of speech which led to it being taken down. That's why I linked it again.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:26:00 UTC | #144610

Enlightenme..'s Avatar Comment 27 by Enlightenme..

Comment #152287 by gyokusai on March 30, 2008 at 3:53 pm

"Behead those who say Islam is violent!"


That pic was a spoof.


It was not - I downloaded all the placard templates from the MCB website at the time, including that one, I still have them on my hard drive.

Spellcheck: It's Tenets, not tenants [post 4, and thousands of other incidences]

We asked for Danish soccer results, and we get this. :(

"But... what was his point? After the Danish cartoons, Submission and "Muhammad" there is nothing left to prove, or so I thought."

Regardless of Mr Wilders' motives - it seems the point of freedom of expression is going to have to be 'proved' over and over until opponents of it get the message.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:29:00 UTC | #144612

Paine's Avatar Comment 28 by Paine

I saw the film. Disappointingly amateurish. A cut-and-paste job of stuff already available. Looks like he spent all of 10 minutes on Youtube to make this movie. I guess the TV channels are heaving a sigh of relief that they refused to broadcast it!

I thought 'Undercover mosque' by one of your British TV channels was much more provocative and riveting. There should be more like those.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:36:00 UTC | #144613

dragonfirematrix's Avatar Comment 29 by dragonfirematrix

If news and truth is pulled from the airways (or the Internet) every time a group becomes threatening, those very groups will trample all our freedoms.

We should not give in.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:37:00 UTC | #144614

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 30 by PrimeNumbers

So, according to Arab News, Muslims don't want to be insulted. Let me give them some advice - don't be so insulting. And stop insulting our intelligence.

When they say "They don’t understand how much Muslims love and respect their Prophet", they don't understand that freedom and free speech are more important.

When they say "But Islam does not teach that, it advocates peace and co-existence", I say, tell your preachers, your leaders to act by example. Learn to stop crying "insult" at every opportunity, to grow up, to become big and adult.

When they say "I am afraid that the Western world has failed to understand the severity of the problem,", I say the problem of Muslims feeling insulted is entirely of their own making. Their religion is their choice. Their feelings of insult are their choice.

When I feel insulted, I know it is my choice to feel so. And right now, they have insulted me. WHen they say “I have my own reservations. Muslims are serious but the other parties are not. They are not committed. They want to hold dialogue, just for the sake of it and for Muslims’ consumption.” they insult me by ignoring the vast numbers of people on this planet with no religion who they have yet to make peace with and have shown no signs or intentions of doing so.

Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:41:00 UTC | #144615