This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Supreme Court to consider Ten Commandments vs. 'Seven Aphorisms'

Supreme Court to consider Ten Commandments vs. 'Seven Aphorisms' - Comments

Sally Luxmoore's Avatar Comment 1 by Sally Luxmoore

Time for the Pastafarians to start engraving their own monument.

Perhaps we should arrange for a similar stonework version of the atheist 10 commandments that Richard found on the internet and quoted in TGD.

The more, the merrier!

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:53:00 UTC | #145542

zane9's Avatar Comment 2 by zane9

For a moment, I thought this was an April Fool joke.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:07:00 UTC | #145551

Gymnopedie's Avatar Comment 3 by Gymnopedie

Calling all Satanist, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Humanists, Pastafarians...

Sort of a silly way to solve the problem, but it gets the job done when needed.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:10:00 UTC | #145554

cowalker's Avatar Comment 4 by cowalker

It will be rather fun in the parks to watch the Christian parents explaining the blessing "May the Flying Spaghetti Monster touch you with his noodly appendage" and the significance of the upside down pentacle to their wee ones.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:05:00 UTC | #145596

Darwin's badger's Avatar Comment 6 by Darwin's badger

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:27:00 UTC | #145626

Darwin's badger's Avatar Comment 5 by Darwin's badger

Jay Sekulow, or Secular? April 1st, I expose thee.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:27:00 UTC | #145625

Alkal's Avatar Comment 7 by Alkal

If I were to form a religion that includes only myself would I b allowed an engraving of "Allytude is great" on the stone monument there, that is the "commandment" of my faith...

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:02:00 UTC | #145667

drbreakfast's Avatar Comment 8 by drbreakfast

I'm a lawyer in the U.S., but no 1st Amendment specialist. But this seems like a great opportunity to raise public awareness of how this is NOT a Christian nation. Will Ed Tabash file an amicus ("friend of the court" brief?

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:14:00 UTC | #145682

Gymnopedie's Avatar Comment 9 by Gymnopedie

Tabash, American Atheists, et al... have talked about all the cases we would love to pursue in the US, but don't have the funds to. In the end, that is the American court system: a test of richness.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:19:00 UTC | #145691

padster1976's Avatar Comment 10 by padster1976

And if they won't have them - they shouldn't have any!

Hurrah!

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:40:00 UTC | #145711

Naturalist1's Avatar Comment 11 by Naturalist1

drbreakfast: You said,"But this seems like a great opportunity to raise public awareness of how this is NOT a Christian nation." If you please, I would like to learn more about this. How could this opportunity be utilized?
Thank you,
Darrell

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:02:00 UTC | #145744

Crocket Lauderdale's Avatar Comment 12 by Crocket Lauderdale

Yes, I'd love to see the Pastafarian "8 - I'd rather you didn'ts."

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:10:00 UTC | #145753

sarah95's Avatar Comment 13 by sarah95

But the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of the liberal Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said Pleasant Grove invited problems by allowing the Ten Commandments monument. "If government creates an open forum, it can't pick and choose among religions," Lynn said in a statement.


Hear hear! I love it when Christians squirm about letting other religions' nonsense commandments into the arena of ostentious public display (often in front of courthouses). You know they only care about religious freedom if it applies to their religion. Some patriotism.

On a slightly unrelated note, like most people, I don't give a flying F*** about the 10 commandments or where they're displayed(ie, the above case), but I don't want my taxes funding some show-off waste of money monument. Spend it on education, research, defense, anything but some stupid religious monument, especially one that's not an equal-opportunity for other religions.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:11:00 UTC | #145754

Antipotheosis's Avatar Comment 14 by Antipotheosis

hopefully it will become an open forum for any group to construct a monument to their chosen moral principles...some notable ones would obviously be FSM's 8 I'd rather you didn'ts; the actual punishments associated with the Ten Commandments, several Atheist and/or Secular versions of the Ten Commandments, The Universal Declaration on Human Rights; and The Secular Humanist Declaration certainly deserve monuments to be erected for their display...

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:06:00 UTC | #145806

dloubet's Avatar Comment 15 by dloubet

It reminds me of that awesome Snicker's advertisement: The ad opens in a football team locker room during the pre-game prayer. When the priest finishes, a rabbi takes his place, and the camera pans back to reveal a line of various religious figureheads snaking out the door. The voice-over asks, "Gonna be there for a while? Have a Snicker's."

That's the whole issue in a nutshell.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:34:00 UTC | #145848

atheists-r-us's Avatar Comment 16 by atheists-r-us

If you want an amusing read google "Seven Aphorisms of Summum". From their website we are advised:
"When Moses returned from Mount Sinai with the first set of tablets containing the aphorisms, he observed the immature behavior and attitude of the Israelites. Moses realized they were incapable of understanding the principles of Creation and were in no way ready for them. So Moses destroyed the stone tablets and revealed the aphorisms to a select few".
The Seven aphorisms are:
THE PRINCIPLE OF PSYCHOKINESIS, THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE, THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION, THE PRINCIPLE OF OPPOSITION, THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM, THE PRINCIPLE OF CAUSE AND EFFECT, THE PRINCIPLE OF GENDER

The bit on Wikipedia about "Summum Golden Pyramid Winery" indicates some hope!

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:10:00 UTC | #145863

rydrum2112's Avatar Comment 17 by rydrum2112

Some one needs to get to get the FSM's list up (or written in stone and displayed).

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:38:00 UTC | #145875

fatewilleatyou's Avatar Comment 18 by fatewilleatyou

I like the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" offense. It's been difficult for reason and law to overcome the God argument.
If your school wants your children to pray. Let your child pray to Ben 10 or Hannah Montana, all the other kids will convert along or wish they could.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:04:00 UTC | #145898

JackBlair's Avatar Comment 19 by JackBlair

Hell, let everyone in on it. Our monuments are ghastly these days, anyhow.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:36:00 UTC | #145904

dragonfirematrix's Avatar Comment 20 by dragonfirematrix

Ah... as religion blossoms beautifully into a toxic plant...

We have Christians in America, who want government to enforce their religious symbols in public places, and push their beliefs in public arenas (E.g. - courts, schools, work, etc.)

I have been longing for the confrontation with this dilemma to begin, which, if left unchecked, will only increase and complicate the problem over time. This toxic plant will grow and regress the free world into a bunch of bickering, violent denominations (sects) of Neanderthals (please see Islam for examples). No matter which road the 2008 American court takes, the reality is probably going to be: "Huston, we have problem." My special thanks go to Mr. George W. Bush for all he has contributed to this GD problem.

Other religions want the same treatment from the government enabling them to display their religious symbols in public arenas. I want the Secular Humanist message displayed along side of government approved Christian monuments. I am sure Humanists would also like recognition, as would the Wicca, the Atheists, the Zeusists, the Neptunists, and (ooooh) the Venusists, and others. If America really believes in the "freedom of religion," why are not the beliefs of others that differ from Christianity given equal time?

Okay, U.S. Supreme (whatever) court, it is your turn to chatter.

So…

Only now, when it is possibly too late to change course, might the religious fanatics of America understand the reason for the Separation of Church and State. Then again, it is not likely they will ever understand.

I offer my condolences to the pushy religious of America for starting this problem in our free (for now) country.

The law should require religion to be a private family matter.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:05:00 UTC | #145936

Wosret's Avatar Comment 21 by Wosret

The extraordinarily similar ones out of "The Book Of The Dead" should be put beside the ten commandments.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:48:00 UTC | #145946

bamboospitfire's Avatar Comment 22 by bamboospitfire

If the Supreme Court has any sense at all it will pull down all the monuments and save everyone a lot of time and trouble whilst simultaneously saving the Xtians a huge amount of embarrassment. Whilst it would be amusing to watch the Eight I'd Rather You Didn'ts go up alongside the Ten Commandments with equal status in law, which would have the theists foaming at the mouth, surely it would be better for the sensible, constitutional approach to be adopted from the word go. In any event, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster needs to get on this right now. Whatever happens, this opportunity is solid gold and should not be missed.

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:19:00 UTC | #145979

jo5ef's Avatar Comment 23 by jo5ef

I also had a look at the article in wiki, i have to admit i find the early evolution/speciation of these nascent religions fascinating. Utah seems to be a veritable Galapagos.

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:31:00 UTC | #145985

Shuggy's Avatar Comment 24 by Shuggy

I don't see that allowing everything is a solution, when the first four of the 10 Commandments are so toxic to all but their believers. Sure nobody could argue with Thou Shalt Not Kill (including zygotes, and except thy enemies and feeble-minded 16-year-olds whose lawyers were asleep) and Thou Shalt not Steal (but creative tax returns are OK), but those are about the only ones.

No other gods but Me? There goes freedom of religion.

No making/worshipping graven images? What if it's part of my religion?

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:53:00 UTC | #145991

Ygern's Avatar Comment 25 by Ygern

How about a recommendation that people keep their religious graven idols wrapped in canvas & buried in a box under their bed where it belongs?

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:59:00 UTC | #145996

Mal3's Avatar Comment 26 by Mal3

Reckon we could get the Pentabarf (upside down, of course) displayed next to the ten commandments as well?

I suppose we'd have to have a smaller version carved right side up in the name of religious tolerance.

Hail Eris.

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:24:00 UTC | #146000

black wolf's Avatar Comment 27 by black wolf

From Sekulow's statement above and from his Wiki bio page, his agenda is very clear. He wants government to work in favor of his agenda, and then placed outside of criticism when the agenda is realized. News for Mr. Sekulow: the government is property of the people, not the other way around.

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:20:00 UTC | #146014

D'Arcy's Avatar Comment 28 by D'Arcy

This discussion reminds me of the signs you sometimes see in pubs:

"In God We Trust

All others pay cash!"

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:43:00 UTC | #146019

Geoff's Avatar Comment 29 by Geoff

http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/Scripture/10_Commandments.html

1. Thou shalt have no other Search Engine before me, neither Yahoo nor Lycos, AltaVista nor Metacrawler. Thou shalt worship only me, and come to Google only for answers.

2. Thou shalt not build thy own commercial-free Search Engine, for I am a jealous Engine, bringing law suits and plagues against the fathers of the children unto the third and fourth generations.

3. Thou shalt not use Google as a verb to mean the use of any lesser Search Engine.

4. Thou shalt remember each passing day and use thy time as an opportunity to gain knowledge of the unknown.

5. Thou shalt honor thy fellow humans, regardless of gender, sexual orientation or race, for each has invaluable experience and knowledge to contribute toward humankind.

6. Thou shalt not misspell whilst praying to me.

7. Thou shalt not hotlink.

8. Thou shalt not plagiarise or take undue credit for other's work.

9. Thou shalt not use reciprocal links nor link farms, for I am a vengeful but fair engine and will diminish thy PageRank. The Google Dance shall cometh.

10. Thou shalt not manipulate Search Results. Search Engine Optimization is but the work of Microsoft.

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:49:00 UTC | #146021

j.mills's Avatar Comment 30 by j.mills

Ten Commandments engraved on a monument
Till the lawyers of Summum's god on you leant.
So you go to the court
Where the Summums retort:
"Our seven, your ten - or was it NONE you meant?"

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 04:06:00 UTC | #146023