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Trouble ahead for science - Comments

T4Baxter's Avatar Comment 1 by T4Baxter

wow first post,
one can only hope this kind of ridicule becomes 'the rule'. I think most people want to avoid looking silly. good :)

Thu, 08 May 2008 09:30:00 UTC | #167856

Cartomancer's Avatar Comment 2 by Cartomancer

Sounds like a jolly sensible chap this Kenneth Miller. Well, apart from his mild dose of god delusion, but hey, everyone needs a hobby. He's just the sort of keeps-the-supernatural-nonsense-firmly-to-himself religious person I have no quarrel with.

If only they were all like him...

Thu, 08 May 2008 09:32:00 UTC | #167857

thewhitepearl's Avatar Comment 3 by thewhitepearl

I don't think I've heard of anyone with a shred of intelligence that comes back with a praised review of this movie....


next

Thu, 08 May 2008 09:34:00 UTC | #167858

Quetzalcoatl's Avatar Comment 4 by Quetzalcoatl

Hmm. Another Expelled review that slates the film. Anybody would think it was of poor quality.

Thu, 08 May 2008 09:36:00 UTC | #167860

Bruno's Avatar Comment 5 by Bruno

I like Ken Miller despite his silly beliefs. Come across to me anyway as a pretty cool teacher. I always loved his explanation of Chromosome #2 (saw it on Youtube a year ago).

Showed that video to a creationist acquaintance of mine to see what he could possibly say. The Fundamentalist creationist responded that Ken Miller is an admitted Catholic and Catholicism is a cult and therefore denied Miller's explanation of Chromosome #2 as being part of the conspiracy. I know, amazing.

Thu, 08 May 2008 09:44:00 UTC | #167866

Eventhorizon's Avatar Comment 6 by Eventhorizon

The only trouble is that the kind of people likely to watch Expelled arent likely to read articles that are criticle of it. They seem too well insulated

Thu, 08 May 2008 09:45:00 UTC | #167867

Edouard Pernod's Avatar Comment 7 by Edouard Pernod

I don't care what Ken Miller believes personally. Nobody's perfect. He has done more to expose ID as the total fraud it is than anyone else on the planet. He was the chief witness at the Dover trial and made Behe and the "Discovery" institute look like ignorant hacks, and he helped bring to light the Chromosomal smoking gun proving apes and humans share a common ancestor.

Most of my family are staunchly anti-evolution, but I recently referred my uncle to Ken Miller's work, and while it may not have changed his mind, it certainly has caused him to shut up about how great ID is and how evolution is wrong. Of course that was before Ben Stein's lying piece of crap movie came out, which I'm sure he has seen. Conversations over Thanksgiving dinner this year are not going to be fun...

Thu, 08 May 2008 09:52:00 UTC | #167870

Eventhorizon's Avatar Comment 8 by Eventhorizon

Edouardo
Or will Thanksgiving be more fun? To really spice things up you might want to throw in that turkeys and ourselves share a common ancester and add a canabalistic feel to the proceedings...

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:11:00 UTC | #167880

Styrer-'s Avatar Comment 9 by Styrer-

Comment #176912 by Cartomancer on May 8, 2008 at 10:32 am

Reluctantly, and solely for the purposes of seeing this film's 'ideas' shoved irretrievably down the world toilet of shit ideas, I agree.

Though quite why a seemingly reasonable chap like Miller doesn't take the next step and have a good old embarrassed chuckle at how daft he's been all this time, I'm really not sure.

Compartmentalization, no doubt. Wearing thin as that one is (intelligent faithoholics must surely know by now what their ill-serving brains are up to), I suppose we must take our support against the likes of anal fissures like Stein as we can.

But definitely reluctantly.

Best,
Styrer

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:14:00 UTC | #167882

Dax's Avatar Comment 11 by Dax

But we all know that Catholics are not True Christians™©®.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:15:00 UTC | #167884

Frankus1122's Avatar Comment 10 by Frankus1122


Stein is doing nothing less than helping turn a generation of American youth away from science.


He is not alone.
I do not teach science but my students brought in their science fair projects today. Two very religious girls brought in their 'science' project. What was their 'scientific' problem to solve?

Which religion is the most believable?


I am not sure if they are antithetical toward science or perhaps just lazy.
I have been shaking my head all day about this.
It really bothers me.
I am angry and depressed.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:15:00 UTC | #167883

Shaden's Avatar Comment 12 by Shaden

Frankus1122,

That's an easy science project. Just bring in nothing, since that's the answer.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:20:00 UTC | #167888

Cartomancer's Avatar Comment 13 by Cartomancer

Which religion is the most believable?
Sounds like a perfectly legitimate scientific question to me. The one with the least crazy supernatural nonsense in it. Atheistic Buddhism sounds like a front runner, or Einsteinian Pantheism. Of course, you could do it as a psychology experiment rather than a physics experiment and see which religion most people in the world actually believe and why - what characteristics it has which encourage proselytisation, how it indoctrinates children, whether it has a hold on fast-breeding societies, that sort of thing. Maybe speculate on what evolved psychological characteristics it exploits.

I'm guessing they didn't do it either of those ways though, did they?

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:21:00 UTC | #167889

artemisa's Avatar Comment 14 by artemisa

there are many believers because it's easier to believe than to think. Therefore many believers and few thinkers.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:27:00 UTC | #167894

Chris Jackson's Avatar Comment 15 by Chris Jackson

I've got to say, I'm sick of this whole Ben Stein Malarkey, let's condemn his laughable film to martyrdom, and then move on. Seriously, It's gone too far: what with the focus upon one stupendously ignorant and mis-informed work.

(I'm aware that I may echo many responses here, but it's getting a tad ridiculous now...)

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:31:00 UTC | #167895

Frankus1122's Avatar Comment 16 by Frankus1122


I'm guessing they didn't do it either of those ways though, did they?


Nope.

They provided a list (Christianity, Buddhism, Hindism, Scientology, and Islam) and then asked the question.
Then they provided 'facts' about each religion, including what they believed was true (humans are sinful -just look at the world today) and false (to their credit the virgin birth was called into question). Then they asked the question again. The sample size was about 20 people.
Uncomfortably for them, Buddhism was found to have the slight edge over Christianity.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:31:00 UTC | #167896

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 17 by Border Collie

I know that scientists, rationalists, Darwinists, etc. go see this movie so that they can comment on it accurately. However, every dollar paid to see this movie is a validation of it, gives it life, no matter whose pocket the dollar came from. I implore all of our colleagues to not see this movie ... don't validate it with your dollars. Truly, you are playing their game when you see this movie. Let it die the natural death it was intended to.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:31:00 UTC | #167897

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 18 by mordacious1

I was at the dentist yesterday and the lady was doing a cleaning. After my mouth is propped open and full of implements she starts telling me about a wonderful "documentary" called expelled. Oh crap. Next time just take your drill and gouge out my eyes, it would be less painful. It was interesting though how much of that BS she swallowed hole.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:37:00 UTC | #167899

Bruno's Avatar Comment 19 by Bruno

mordacious1
Did you set her right?

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:45:00 UTC | #167903

kaiserkriss's Avatar Comment 20 by kaiserkriss

Science leads you to killing people.


That is absolutely disgusting. Stein should be forced to retract that statement or have his sorry posterior hauled off to court for libel and slander, together with a hefty donation to some real science institute. jcw

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:49:00 UTC | #167904

Lycosid's Avatar Comment 21 by Lycosid

Cavities aren't caused by plaque, they happen when you displease the intelligent designer. The plaque is just there to shake your faith; it's a trick.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:55:00 UTC | #167907

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 22 by mordacious1

Bruno Oh yeah, she got a 20 minute lecture and a referal to expelledexposed.com . The worst thing is, I knew she was a christian so I changed out my atheist t-shirt before I went there, the coward that I am. I don't want christians with sharp instruments near me when I wear that.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:58:00 UTC | #167910

Bruno's Avatar Comment 23 by Bruno

Completely understandable.

Thu, 08 May 2008 10:59:00 UTC | #167911

HourglassMemory's Avatar Comment 24 by HourglassMemory

I find myself opening my mouth and really not believing, when I encounter people my age, who fall for this sort of thing.
It's creepy.
I remember being a kid and taking things like SCIENCE for granted in its authority (which I don't think would harm anyone), but then I see people like Ben Stein, and OLDER, who say things that even I as a kid wouldn't think about.
It's incredible.

People just need a tremendous dose of critical thinking skills shown to them.
Conspiracy theories and crap like Ex(crement)pelled need to be debunked in 5 hour long films so you don't leave any argument behind. And books like Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming history", a 1632 page book debunking all JFK conspiracies need to be put out there.
And then New Age stuff and ghosts and supernatural nonsense.
There has to be one gigantic mass production of critical thinking media.
Perhaps "The Skeptologists" will be the first of many(if it gets accepted)

Thu, 08 May 2008 11:02:00 UTC | #167915

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 25 by mordacious1

I don't believe that there is trouble ahead for science. Maybe a few bumps in the road put there by nutjobs, but no matter what they do, science marches on. No one, no group can stop it... knowledge is inevitable for at least some of us.

Thu, 08 May 2008 11:08:00 UTC | #167918

Frankus1122's Avatar Comment 26 by Frankus1122

Okay.
I just got back from viewing all the projects.
I am in a bit of a better mood.
Two guys built a bicycle that will purify water. The idea is that you go to a water source a few kilometers from where you live and fill up the container on the front of the bike. As you pedal back home the water is pumped through a filtration device and fills up a container on the back of the bike.
Two more of my girls did a project on colour degradation. They wanted to determine which colour will fade the fastest under which light source. They had a log book that was 125 pages long. They tested the colour degradation by scanning the coloured paper and measuring its colour value using Photoshop every 2 hours for 10 days.
If you want to keep the colour of artwork or photographs don't expose them to a lot of sunlight; especially if the art predominantly black or blue. Although this is something that we sort of know already, these girls now have some hard statisical data as to the rate of colour degradation for particular coloured papers under specific light sources.

I am sort of happy now.
There is some hope.

Thu, 08 May 2008 11:08:00 UTC | #167919

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 27 by mordacious1

Like I said, Science maches on!

Thu, 08 May 2008 11:10:00 UTC | #167920

Partisan's Avatar Comment 28 by Partisan

I wonder how the public will take it when they realised Expelled has flat out lied on so many of its key points, such as the link between Evolution and the Holocaust and the incompatibility of Evolution and Religion. Unbelievable, it seems like it's pissed on everyone's shoes.

Thu, 08 May 2008 11:16:00 UTC | #167922

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 29 by mordacious1

I hear the DVD version is coming out. DVD meaning "Dumb, VERY DUMB".

Thu, 08 May 2008 11:18:00 UTC | #167924

DamnDirtyApe's Avatar Comment 30 by DamnDirtyApe

If America ever loses its Energy for Science, you might as well hand China the world on a plate.

Thu, 08 May 2008 11:24:00 UTC | #167926