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← Turkish Islamic author given 3-year jail sentence

Turkish Islamic author given 3-year jail sentence - Comments

Chris Roberts's Avatar Comment 1 by Chris Roberts

Controversial Turkish Islamic author Adnan Oktar was sentenced to three years in prison on Friday for creating an illegal organization for personal gain

I don't really know what he has done wrong, this passage doesn't offer much in the way of description.

But he is obviously a religious nut and so a few years behind bars may be good news.

I just hope he isn't given a pen or any paper.....

Thu, 15 May 2008 14:25:00 UTC | #171532

Caudimordax's Avatar Comment 2 by Caudimordax

This is the guy who sent out all those expensively printed coffee table books to biology professors in the US oktar&st=cse&oref=slogin

I'm afraid prison time isn't going to help. It's in prison that a lot of people get religion, at least in the US.

Thu, 15 May 2008 14:33:00 UTC | #171539

andydjw's Avatar Comment 3 by andydjw

He could share a cell with Kent Hovind!

Thu, 15 May 2008 14:35:00 UTC | #171540

Nova's Avatar Comment 4 by Nova

Turkish Islamic author given 3-year jail sentence:

The court decision comes at a time when political tensions in officially secular but predominantly Muslim Turkey are high as the ruling AK Party faces a court case that seeks its closure for alleged Islamist activities, a claim the party denies.
This is very worrying. Will Atatürk's great democratic secular nation crumble? Relinquishing all it's great progress since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and becoming the sick man of Europe once again? Only time will tell.

Thu, 15 May 2008 14:54:00 UTC | #171546

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 5 by Border Collie

Onward through the fog ...

Thu, 15 May 2008 15:12:00 UTC | #171549

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 6 by aquilacane

So Turkey has taken a larger step against one of its crackpots than the US has against any of its own. I guess you would have to start with Bush, and he's kind of running the country at the mo'. North America is so doomed.

Thu, 15 May 2008 15:35:00 UTC | #171561

xrod's Avatar Comment 7 by xrod

"Oktar had been charged with using threats for personal benefit and creating an organization with the intent to commit a crime."

Just another example of how religious nuts think they're above the law and that god will protect them.

Thu, 15 May 2008 15:51:00 UTC | #171571

Lycosid's Avatar Comment 8 by Lycosid

This is exactly why Turkey shouldn't be held to the EU's current standards. You can't have religious freedom and democracy in a country where a majority of the population is afflicted with religion so badly that they aren't up to the task of self-governance.

Thu, 15 May 2008 16:34:00 UTC | #171580

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 9 by mordacious1

I do not think anyone should go to jail for just printing nonsense. Is this guy advocating violence or what? Before we support him being chucked into prison, I like to know more about it. In a rational world, there has to be some outlet for nutjobs. I know the U.S. and UK have plenty that should at least be given a psych eval.

Thu, 15 May 2008 19:12:00 UTC | #171614

Caudimordax's Avatar Comment 10 by Caudimordax

Interesting. True, we all (here) disagree with this wingnut's agenda, and yet we don't think he should be imprisoned for it.

This has always been my "problem" with liberals. We don't have sound bites. Anti-abortion activists carry signs saying "ABORTION IS MURDER" while pro choice people are reduced to 8 point font to explain, "Well, we don't actually advocate abortion, but we feel that it should become legally a freely chosen option for those who desire it..."


I shouldn't say problem, more like frustration with the liberal framework


To clarify what seems like a complete non sequitur (which happens to be my metier) I am applauding the people on this forum for their support of free speech, whether or not they agree with the premise and at the same time decrying the difficulty of propounding "liberal" ideas as opposed to fascist slogans.

Thu, 15 May 2008 19:38:00 UTC | #171621

jjberg's Avatar Comment 11 by jjberg

I'm uneasy about this. The guy's obviously full of shit and spewing nonsense, but I haven't yet heard what he actually did that was illegal. If he's just being tossed in jail for spewing nonsense and his free speech is being abridged, then it's not something to support, but if he's really been acting illegally, then I take immense glee in seeing a loony like him locked up for a few years.

Thu, 15 May 2008 19:57:00 UTC | #171625

zpokthesecond's Avatar Comment 12 by zpokthesecond

@ Lycosid: Are you talking about Poland here?

Thu, 15 May 2008 20:16:00 UTC | #171630

sickofgod's Avatar Comment 13 by sickofgod

No point of sending to jail, he will have more time to write more bullsh...


Thu, 15 May 2008 20:56:00 UTC | #171634

Palaeogluttony's Avatar Comment 14 by Palaeogluttony

creationism, the belief that God literally created the world in six days as told in the Bible and the Koran

Actually the article gets this wrong. Islamic creationism (at least, as advocated by this Harun Yahya) doesn't have any problems with the idea that the earth is billions of years old. It just says that god created all the different lifeforms during these millions of years at numerous instances and the resulting organisms never changed since they were created.

I can only conclude that Allah isn't a very hard-working god.

Thu, 15 May 2008 21:52:00 UTC | #171643

Barry Pearson's Avatar Comment 15 by Barry Pearson

This article prompted me to have another look at the situation in the UK. I do wonder whether the UK is drifting into a situation where we will be forced to fight rear-guard actions in the way that is common in the US.

Part 1:

Council of Europe report: "The dangers of creationism in education" 17 September 2007
(Note: the Council of Europe is NOT the same as the European Union).

British Centre for Science Education:
"Influencing the National Curriculum"
"Summary of the key current issues"

Thu, 15 May 2008 23:46:00 UTC | #171662

Barry Pearson's Avatar Comment 16 by Barry Pearson

Part 2:

Creationism (An anticreationism website with an emphasis on the situation in the UK):
"Misrepresentation Of Science Curriculum"
"Some Examples Of KS 4 Misrepresentation"

"The threat from creationism to the rational teaching of biology" (UK position half way down)

New Humanist: ""While secularists sleep well-funded creationists are on the march in Europe"

"HARUN YAHYA CONFERENCES IN UK AND SCOTLAND" 2007, I think. (Er ... Scotland was still in the UK when I last checked!)

Thu, 15 May 2008 23:47:00 UTC | #171663

Fanusi Khiyal's Avatar Comment 17 by Fanusi Khiyal

I don't really know what he has done wrong, this passage doesn't offer much in the way of description

The thing is, and I have pointed this out before, Turkey became secular thanks to Attaturk going to war with Islam. The military of Turkey, with these kinds of results, is the only thing preventing us from having an unbelievably strong Jihad power right next to Europe.

Fri, 16 May 2008 00:25:00 UTC | #171677

justinesaracen's Avatar Comment 18 by justinesaracen

To Turkish_Scientist

Thanks for your thorough description of the Harun Yahya phenomenon. I had no idea.

But what's up with this Freemasonry thing? I thought Freemasons were a club of beer-bellied old men with secret handshakes, monthly meetings by candlelight and no visible agenda. Am I missing something here?

Fri, 16 May 2008 01:18:00 UTC | #171686

black wolf's Avatar Comment 19 by black wolf

It seems they're trying to do with Freemasonry exactly what Hitler (no this is not a Godwin) did with the German Worker's Party. Get in there, sway or coerce a majority, take over the leadership, and then reform the statutes (and the organization's name) to fit your ideology. Then proceed to do the same thing with your country. Then your neighboring countries. People like these always move to criminal behavior sooner or later.

Fri, 16 May 2008 02:05:00 UTC | #171703

nalfeshnee's Avatar Comment 20 by nalfeshnee

Charles Darwin came up with the widely adopted evolutionary theory of natural selection in the 19th century.

Oktar's publishing house has published dozens of books that have been distributed in more than 150 countries and been translated into more than 50 languages. He has a wide following in the Muslim world.

Is it just me, or is there a truly massive bias in this reporting (from Reuters, no less!)?

What the FSM is "widely adopted" supposed to mean?

Fri, 16 May 2008 03:04:00 UTC | #171719

al-rawandi's Avatar Comment 21 by al-rawandi

Fuck Adnan Oktar.

His first book was "The Holocaust Lie" and said the Holocaust was actually 100,000 Jewish deaths, due to Typhoid Fever. What a disgusting toad. A religiose moron.

Another intellectual eunuch trying to sell a "scientific" Islam.

Fri, 16 May 2008 05:20:00 UTC | #171737

justinesaracen's Avatar Comment 22 by justinesaracen


You wrote:
>>>It seems they're trying to do with Freemasonry exactly what Hitler (no this is not a Godwin) did with the German Worker's Party. Get in there, sway or coerce a majority, take over the leadership, and then reform the statutes (and the organization's name) to fit your ideology. Then proceed to do the same thing with your country. Then your neighboring countries. People like these always move to criminal behavior sooner or later.<<<

I'm sorry, I don't understand your post. Could you elaborate? Who is "they" you say are infiltrating Freemasonry? The Islamic fundamentalists oppose Freemasonry the same way they do Zionism, so 'they' can't refer to them. Who then is 'they'? And what good would it do them to take over an organization of silly old men with secret handshakes?


Fri, 16 May 2008 05:20:00 UTC | #171738

Geoff's Avatar Comment 23 by Geoff

Ah, Harun Yahya!

Time to mention the "Atlas of Creation!" fishing lures again!

Fri, 16 May 2008 09:01:00 UTC | #171832

DingoDave's Avatar Comment 24 by DingoDave

Adnan Oktar aka Harun Yahya is a preening, narcissistic ignoramus.
He runs a number of websites including one called Darwinism-Watch which you can find here:

If you want to see a man completely infatuated with himself, then take a look at this page:

Christ, what an egotistical creep!

Sun, 18 May 2008 23:23:00 UTC | #172723

kaph's Avatar Comment 25 by kaph

This guy, whose freedom of speech we are defending here, is the sole reason why Wordpress is still banned in Turkey. Turns out some blogger wasn't terribly fond of him.

He had also tried to force a ban on a Turkish online community akin to Everything2, just because he thought some of the entries under the title "Adnan Oktar" were offensive. (As of today, there are ~7.3 mn. different entries in ~1.4 mn. different titles. Just to illuminate the stupidity of that ban.) The verdict was later overruled and access to eksi sozluk was restored.

His schizophrenia is documented by several different medical reports, causing the legal circles in Turkey arguing that his "conditions" serve as immunity from law. Now I don't really know the little bits and legal details, but at least he gets reductions for the time he needs to serve. Regardless, he keeps on harassing the lawyers of the online community by fax -needless to say, hiding his number. I guess he now gets people to do that for him.

He's now convicted of leading a criminal organization. Not of creationism, which, admittedly, would be pointless; or of sending threatening letters or whatever the legal jargon for that is.

Serves him right.

Mon, 19 May 2008 19:12:00 UTC | #173091

DingoDave's Avatar Comment 26 by DingoDave

Here is another article about the sins of Adnan Oktar.
From here:

Who is Harun Yahya?

Harun Yahaya is charlatan and a dangerous man. Here's some background of this great impostor:

Adnan Oktar (pen name: Harun Yahya) is claimed on his web page to be a 'world renown and respected scholar' who has devoted himself to writing about scientific and faith-related subjects such as the theory of evolution and miracles of God. He is further described by supporters as a respected 'scientist' who has publications in incredibly diverse areas of interest (actually he is not a university graduate).

The fact is that, his publications and his foundation (Science Research Foundation) have recently been banned in Turkey, and most members of his "sect" have been sent to court. This was not due to their Islamic and scientific activities, but due to crimes such as blackmail, extortion, possession of unlicensed weapons and sexual intercourse with minors.

About three years ago, upon complaints of victims and many years of suspicion, Turkish police raided residences of this group. The discoveries at the houses and testimony of the group members were shocking.

Under the mask of promoting Islam and scientific facts, the group members had been found to engage in extensive criminal activity. These crimes included blackmail, possession of unlicensed weapons and sexual intercourse with individuals under age 18.

The head of the group, Adnan Oktar (recorded by police cameras, leaked and shown on Turkish TV channels such as Kanal D, ATV, Star) confessed to blackmailing people who they regarded as an obstacle to their enterprises. These people included the reporters for the newspaper Hurriyet, Emin Colasan, and Fatih Altayli, after they questioned some of Harun Yahya's activities such as bribing the municipality of Ankara.

Also politicians such as Celal Adan (Member of the Parliament) and Mesut Yilmaz (former Prime Minister of Turkey) have been victims of this group. Oktar's group arranged fake (photomontage) photos of Mesut Yilmaz in Freemason clothes and ceremonies, and forged a fake certificate of Freemasonary for him. This fake was taken seriously and published in several pro-Islamic newspapers (without knowing it was a fraud). The PM was seriously damaged politically as a result during the remainder of his government.

Also coming forth, a fashion model named Ebru Simsek was blackmailed, and then slandered as a "prostitute" in fax messages sent to hundreds of different newspapers, TV channels, major business companies, foreign consulates, government offices etc. The reason for the slander? She refused to have sex with Adnan Oktar.

But the most shocking activities of Oktar's and his followers were not the above. In the sudden raid, 20 women and 2 other men were found at his residence. Most of the females (girls really) were under the age 18, (Oktar is his middle 40's) and they claimed that they had been having sexual intercourse with Oktar and members of his sect.

In his testimony, Oktar claimed that he had committed no crime as the intercourse was consensual, allowed under Turkish law. Further, Oktar insisted that this intercourse was also religiously permissible under Islam because he and his followers did not have a 'real sexual intercourse with these girls'.

He and his followers claimed that they had only engaged in 'anal and oral' sex. They preferred this kinds of sexual intercourse since according to Koran, he claimed, these acts are not impermissible outside of marriage. According to their interpretation 'vaginal' intercourse was 'haram' but 'anal and oral intercourse' was 'halal' when not married.

So you wonder what happened in the end?

Science Research Foundation was closed. Adnan Oktar (aka Harun Yahya), and about 40 of his sect members were taken to the court and judged. Once there, they denied the truth of their original confessions, claiming that they were extracted under torture.

The judicial process lasted over 2 years, during which most of the complainants' retracted their claims because of threats or bribes from sect members. As a result most of the cases against these people were dismissed, with only two of them jail for 1 year each.

That said, coverage of the arrests and trials were so extensive in Turkey that the reputation (and money making opportunities) of the group were permanently destroyed. It is now taken seriously only in foreign countries where their legal troubles received little or no press coverage.

Mon, 19 May 2008 19:31:00 UTC | #173094

DingoDave's Avatar Comment 27 by DingoDave

Here are some exerpts from Adnan Oktar's 'biography which I found here:

"Born in Ankara in 1956, Adnan Oktar writes his books under the pen name of Harun Yahya. Ever since his university years, he has dedicated his life to telling of the existence and oneness of Almighty Allah, and to disseminating the moral values of the Qur'an. He has never wavered in the face of difficulties and despite oppression, still continues this intellectual struggle today exhibiting great patience and determination.

A short biography of Adnan Oktar:

Born in Ankara in 1956, Adnan Oktar lived there through his high school years. During this period, his devotion to Islamic moral values grew even stronger. He deepened his profound knowledge of Islam by reading works of all the great Islamic scholars and decided to tell everyone about Islam's moral values and summon them to a knowledge of truth and beauty."

"When Adnan Oktar entered Mimar Sinan University, it was under the influence of various illegal Marxist-communist organizations....This environment accorded religion and moral values no respect, and rejected them almost entirely. The materialist view predominated. But Adnan Oktar began telling those around him of the existence and oneness of Allah, and was the only person who prayed openly in the Molla Mosque, adjacent to the university."

"Spreading Religious Moral Values at Mimar Sinan University

When Adnan Oktar began communicating Islamic values, he was quite alone. For more than three years nobody at Mimar Sinan University backed up his views, yet that did not alter his determination. Knowing that Allah was his only friend, he did all these things solely to gain His approval. He devoted all his time, energy and means to a single purpose: earning the good pleasure, mercy and Paradise of Allah, and telling all mankind about religious moral values."

" Adnan Oktar held conversations with these young people on love of country; the importance of following in the great leader Ataturk's path; the proofs of creation; the exemplary moral values of our Prophet (saas); the provisions and moral values revealed in the Qur'an by our Lord; and the invalidity of the then-prevailing ideologies of materialism, atheism and Darwinism. From this time onward, Adnan Oktar was a vehicle by which many people came to believe."

"Through these books, a great many people have come to appreciate and to grow more deeply in their faith. Everyone who reads and studies his work is affected by this profound difference and benefits from his sincere, wise and easily accessible style. Each book is characterized by proven, definitive facts presented with honest clarity, which nobody can refute-features that doubtlessly stem from a striking wisdom vouchsafed by Allah."

"During all these trials, he has always constituted a role model maintaining his trust in, and submission to, Allah, recalling that throughout history, believers have all been tested with similar incidents, that every event takes place in a destiny determined by Allah, in a wise and auspicious manner. No matter what may befall them, he has always said that believers must always be moderate, joyfully determined, and submit to Allah's will.
He has always been forgiving and compassionate towards those who have conspired to blacken his name with irrational and illogical slanders. Acting in the light of the morality revealed by Allah in the verse "Repel the bad with something better" (Surah Fussilat, 34), he was totally cleared by the court of all accusations made against him on 12 November, 1999. He is still actively engaged in his literary activities today, calling on his readers to live by proper moral values."

So there you have it. Another hypocritical 'holier than thou' slimeball, and self proclaimed spokesman for God, bites the dust and spirals downward into an abyss of ignominy and infamy.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, and may he never rise again!

Mon, 19 May 2008 19:58:00 UTC | #173099

f451's Avatar Comment 28 by f451


I'm a member from Turkey and Turkish government banned to all Turkish users because of the some comments about Adnan Oktar on this page.

I've changed my DNS servers to reach this site.

The desicion of the court is a shame for free-thinking!

Is there a way to contact with Mr. Dawkins about this issue.

This is very important!

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:13:00 UTC | #230935

epeeist's Avatar Comment 29 by epeeist

Comment #243825 by f451


I'm a member from Turkey and Turkish government banned to all Turkish users because of the some comments about Adnan Oktar on this page.
This wouldn't have had anything to do with the postings of Joe Morreale would it? Have a look at the Harun Yahya article (,2833,UPDATED-Venomous-Snakes-Slippery-Eels-and-Harun-Yahya,Richard-Dawkins) and in particular the alternative comments thread.

If this is the problem then it may be worthwhile contacting Josh to see what could be done about the comments.

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:42:00 UTC | #230943

Quetzalcoatl's Avatar Comment 31 by Quetzalcoatl


There might be more of a problem if the Turkish government is banning websites that make any mention of Harun Yahya.

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:45:00 UTC | #230945