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← Town moves against Islamic school

Town moves against Islamic school - Comments

tieInterceptor's Avatar Comment 1 by tieInterceptor

Not politically correct, but true. Religious indoctrination should not be even a consideration in the 21st century.

Separation of communities by religious education is the worst damage we can do to children. And on top of that, not all religions are equal in their understanding and tolerance of other faiths, and specially of no faith at all.

Islam is well known for its hardcore intolerance, and it's outspokenly and anti-democracy, and considers separation of church and state a sin.

We must wake up quickly to that fact, before we have a large minority that has the right to vote, and wants to take away our right to vote. Or we end with fake elections like in Iran.

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:09:00 UTC | #175423

riki's Avatar Comment 2 by riki

Pauline Hanson is an idiot. There's another article here as well
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/20/2124578.htm

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:17:00 UTC | #175428

Granton's Avatar Comment 3 by Granton

This story doesn't have anything to do with religion does it? Just race.

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:23:00 UTC | #175431

padster1976's Avatar Comment 4 by padster1976

It would be interesting to see who finances this Quranic Society - would it be like the Muslim Council of Britain?

I'm of very mixed emotions to this - I see the blatant racism yet can also see their fears. But where does this fear come from? Is it, like in the UK, from media outlets drumming up facist feeling or is there actual grounds for their position. There are some strong assertions there -

""Everywhere is being destroyed. Why don't we tell the truth. They're wrecking Australia. They're taking us over," she said."

""Why hasn't anyone got any guts? They've got terrorists amongst 'em... They want to be here so they can go and hide in all the farm houses... This town has every nationality... but Muslims do not fit in this town. We are Aussies, OK." "

Are there any actual examples of this?

I'm also conscious of the fact that like america, australia is made of immigrants that ousted the local indigenous population. Well, in the case of australia, that immigrant population was made of convicts as it was first put up as a penal colony. The irony of shouting about foreigners on the shores cannot be ignored in this context.

On another note, the idea of a specific faith school to me is completely wrong. Integration must be the key. Seperation at a young informative stage of development must only serve to strengthen segregation not only from the 'foreign' perspective, but also from the established local population. Hence we see such 'they're all witches' like calls.

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:30:00 UTC | #175433

History_Junky's Avatar Comment 5 by History_Junky

Thats pretty sad that they are using Islam as a way to safely be outwardly racist and xenophobic. Of course im not referring to all of the opposition but it seems as if their is a visible group that clearly has some racial agenda.

People should open up a damn biology text book if they think that skin colour is enough to make them unique from other individuals.

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:32:00 UTC | #175435

justinesaracen's Avatar Comment 6 by justinesaracen

More and more I am for enforced secularism, as in the French schools. If schoolchildren are required by federal law to attend public school, they can do their voodoo, sorry, religious study on the weekend the way kids have been doing it for decades. The whole idea of a Catholic School, a Yeshiva, or a Muslim 'school' (which is the same as a Yeshiva) is repugnant to me -- regardless of how liberal or enlightened the curriculum might be.

On the other hand, the arguments put forth sounded pretty racist to me. All those white folks in Australia seem to have forgotten that they took Australia away from another culture. They don't OWN Australia. It sounds obnoxious to me that they immediately assume that the school will breed terrorists. There are thousands of mosques and moslem schools in Europe and the US that go about their business and bother no one.

But before making a final judgment, I'd like more information. Why, for example, is this Muslim community building a school so far away from Sydney, where all the students live?

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:39:00 UTC | #175444

Corylus's Avatar Comment 7 by Corylus

Esuther

Why, for example, is this Muslim community building a school so far away from Sydney, where all the students live?
Good question. I have been wondering that myself. I can only presume that the land is cheaper.

However, to be willing put children through an hour journey to and from school seems to indicate that child welfare is not the school planner's first concern.

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:48:00 UTC | #175449

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 8 by mordacious1

Racism.

That being said, the only good solution is to ban all religious schools throughout the country. That would be fair. hee hee

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:50:00 UTC | #175450

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 9 by mordacious1

Well, you have to have a lot of land for a shooting range and the monkey bars that they keep showing on tv when talking about terrorist training camps. Oh, and the exposives lab (part of the chemistry department) takes up a lot of space. (this is sarcasm, so don't yell at me)

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:56:00 UTC | #175456

Tenochtitlan's Avatar Comment 10 by Tenochtitlan

@Granton: agree, this has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with racism and xenophobia.
Its weird, these people don't have anything against religion per se, (at least not christianity) and I know Australia is filled with immigrants, but I guess Islam and muslims are just a little too much for this little community.

Also, I like how they all go "I'm not being racist, but these folk shouldn't be allowed to build a school there, I mean, just look at them, they're all, like, different from us!"

Yes, racist idiocy is not gone, it's just well-hidden.

Mon, 26 May 2008 08:59:00 UTC | #175459

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 11 by hungarianelephant

The BBC always seems to be looking for racism. Even so, this is about the best it could do here:

Muslims do not fit in this town. We are Aussies, OK

Thing is, that's not actually racist, is it? The person who said it might be a racist. There might be racist undertones. But the fact is that there are large numbers of Muslims in Australia who have no intention whatsoever of integrating with the rest of the populus. And nothing in this proposal would seem to indicate that it's about to start.

What seems to have happened here is a meeting of local people to try to discuss matters which will affect them locally. That's democracy in action. Some will see the proposal as a foot in the door to change the area radically. They may be right or wrong, but it's hardly unreasonable to raise the discussion.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:05:00 UTC | #175463

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 12 by mordacious1

Like my ignorant father used to say: "I'm not racist. I just don't like blacks, mexicans, A-rabs, Jews, etc etc". I've heard this crap before.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:06:00 UTC | #175464

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 13 by mordacious1

hungarianelephant
Did you watch the film clip?

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:08:00 UTC | #175465

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 14 by hungarianelephant

mordacious1 - Yes. Next question.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:13:00 UTC | #175466

lozzer's Avatar Comment 15 by lozzer

Islam isn't a race it's a religion.

If it isn't then I'm certainly racist when it comes to Christianity too.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:14:00 UTC | #175467

Granton's Avatar Comment 16 by Granton

hungarian elephant.

How does a Muslim integrate? By becoming a Methodist, or an atheist?

I bet there wouldn't be much trouble in this case if most muslims were white.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:15:00 UTC | #175468

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 18 by hungarianelephant

Granton, same way as everyone else. Trying to set up a school to maintain continued separation doesn't count as integration, in my book.

What colour are Lebanese, by the way?

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:20:00 UTC | #175470

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 17 by mordacious1

hungarian
No questions, but I know racism when I see it. Just the fact that they assume they have terrorist among them, is enough.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:20:00 UTC | #175469

bugaboo's Avatar Comment 19 by bugaboo

Comment #184867 by hungarianelephant

"The BBC always seems to be looking for racism"

More than this they always equate anti-Islamic feeling with racism, as does the UK government.

And yes this article stinks of racism eg "This town has every nationality... but Muslims do not fit in this town".

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:21:00 UTC | #175471

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 20 by hungarianelephant

17. Comment #184873 by mordacious1 on May 26, 2008 at 10:20 am

No questions, but I know racism when I see it.

So does the BBC. I hope your radar is a little more accurate.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:21:00 UTC | #175472

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 21 by mordacious1

I didn't say islam, I said muslim.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:25:00 UTC | #175475

Granton's Avatar Comment 22 by Granton

Hungarianelephant

I'm also firmly against faith schools, but Sydney has lots of Catholic schools. No-one's objecting to that as un-Australian.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:28:00 UTC | #175478

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 23 by mordacious1

The town will problably ban the school. Next year they will build a christian mega church on the site.

The one guy had a hat that read, "No to islamic immigration". hmmm

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:33:00 UTC | #175479

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 24 by hungarianelephant

Granton

I'm not sure what your point is. I wasn't arguing against faith schools (though I'm certainly happy to agree with you). You asked what integration would take, and I made a suggestion. Arguing that another church school would also be divisive doesn't address the issue, even if a more familiar one might be treated differently.

As I said, it might very well be that some of the residents of Camden are racists. But I'm not prepared simply to push them into that category without better evidence than this.

It's become virtually impossible to say anything remotely connected with race without being denounced as racist, the greatest thoughtcrime of our age. And many of these people are relatively unsophisticated, and speak more plainly than is politically acceptable.

When someone says "I am not a racist but", what they might mean is, "I am not a racist, but have genuine concerns that some people are determined to characterise as racist". What others hear - and especially the BBC - is "I am a racist and am in denial". I see no reason to presume the second meaning every time.

And we should be particularly alert for it, because Muslims are now trying to play the anti-race card by portraying anti-Islamic sentiment as (a) racist, or (b) akin to racism. We should call them out on this, not play along.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:46:00 UTC | #175483

EvidenceOnly's Avatar Comment 25 by EvidenceOnly

The United Nations should ban ALL religions from getting involved in education of anyone.

Every child should get short comparative courses in school on the silliness of all religions and the gods they created in their own image, mostly abandoned by now. This should be mandatory at the age of 7, again at 12, and again at 18. Just like we keep educating students about the dangers of smoking.

Religious myth, indoctrination and child abuse should be confined to churches and the privacy of homes.

Educational institutions can then to combat this nonsense on a daily basis through real science based on real evidence.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:47:00 UTC | #175484

KRKBAB's Avatar Comment 26 by KRKBAB

Granton, here is how a Muslim could integrate: by adhering to all of the governmental laws; not EVER trying to insitute "sharia"; and by granting all Muslim women the rights that the laws of Australia grant. Also, this "school" should not be allowed to be built or any other faith based school. Obviously, any previously built shit based, I mean faith based schools should remain, but faith based education taking the place of a secular education should not be allowed for ANY child (or adult) IMHO. These Aussies are partially right, as long as they would be this adverse to ANY religious school. (I realize the obvious zenophobia amongst some of them but perhaps not amongst all of them)

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:48:00 UTC | #175485

phil rimmer's Avatar Comment 27 by phil rimmer

We need to know a lot more before the racist card is played.

Would the community object to a new, but smaller school for just their indigenous Muslim population?

Would they object to such a large school for some loony Christian cult, a new branch of the Westboro Baptist Church for instance?

If the possible answers are no and yes respectively (as they may well be)you have precious little to go slandering the community just yet.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:50:00 UTC | #175486

Count von Count's Avatar Comment 28 by Count von Count

Claiming that the exclusion of Islam is racist is like claiming the removal of a tumor is murder. Doesn't oppressive, democracy-killing, woman-hating, science-destroying, mind-controlling Islam have the right to live in whatever town it wants? Don't cancer cells have the right to take over whatever body they wish?

If more towns stood up to this bully called Islam (no matter what the race of those who practice it is), this world would be a better place for all of us (including muslims).

"Never underestimate the power of the dark side."-Master Yoda

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:53:00 UTC | #175487

ThoughtsonCommonToad's Avatar Comment 29 by ThoughtsonCommonToad

Thats pretty sad that they are using Islam as a way to safely be outwardly racist and xenophobic. Of course im not referring to all of the opposition but it seems as if their is a visible group that clearly has some racial agenda.


This is what is being done everywhere you look. Why? Because nobody but the fucking nutters proffers any criticism.

Mon, 26 May 2008 09:58:00 UTC | #175489

Stew282's Avatar Comment 30 by Stew282

A lot of posters here seem to be exhibiting the same pro-multiculturalist, cry-racist sentiments that ensured that anti-integration, anti-democratic, racist muslims achieved immunity from criticism whilst teaching British children to hate western society and all it stands for, creating islamic enclaves within a secular country where religious fanatics are virtually free to govern as they see fit.

Yes, undoubtedly the motives of the people of Camden are tinged with racism, but they are primarily anti-islamic. Perhaps they are learning from Europe's mistakes. I would strongly oppose any plans for any religious, particularly islamic, school being built in my area.

But then again, it's very easy to cry 'racist' when the proposed islamic school is several thousand miles away. It is much harder to criticise a 'not in my back yard' approach when it is actually your back yard.

Islam is incompatible with democracy, freedom of speech, human rights, church/state separation, and virtually every other value of advanced society.

Mon, 26 May 2008 10:04:00 UTC | #175491