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← Louisiana's latest creationism bill moves to House floor

Louisiana's latest creationism bill moves to House floor - Comments

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 1 by rod-the-farmer

Is there any way to get all the lurkers on this web site to contact their state representatives, to start calling & writing their officials about this garbage ? I don't live there, so my word is not worth much, I think.

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:01:00 UTC | #176000

offthepools's Avatar Comment 2 by offthepools

I am wondering the same thing. It would be great to be able to send a clear message that we strongly disagree with the notion that anything other than peer reviewed science should be taught in a science class.

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:06:00 UTC | #176002

cam9976's Avatar Comment 3 by cam9976

This sort of thing makes me sad to be an American.

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:07:00 UTC | #176004

AfraidToDie's Avatar Comment 4 by AfraidToDie

"and paying, and paying -- for this policy in the future"

It's a never ending battle, but one that must be fought. Thanks for the Eugenie Scotts fighting the "good fight"!

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:09:00 UTC | #176005

AoClay's Avatar Comment 5 by AoClay

If it isn't religious then why is there one designer? Also, when people make the claims like "new findings are contradicting evolution" we need to halt everything until they show these findings.

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:10:00 UTC | #176006

AfraidToDie's Avatar Comment 6 by AfraidToDie

Hey, we are so vastly outnumbered that if it wasn't for the "separation of church and state" clause, we'd all be required to take ID classes. We're one more republican president away from ID being taught in our high school classrooms, and may be on that road anyway. I hate to generalize, but does anyone here doubt that it is a Republican agenda to fill the supreme court with right wing christians?

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:16:00 UTC | #176011

dragonfirematrix's Avatar Comment 7 by dragonfirematrix

All this push for bible BS on people sounds Islamic style to me.

Before it is over, America is going to see a backlash and revolt against the Christians, and even then I do not believe the Christians will get the point.

I believe most people want to be tolerant. However, I am sure that tolerance is only to a point. I doubt most Americans WILL tolerate being indoctrinated what to believe.

The Christians will likely understand the point of the backlash only after it is too late, and then they will claim persecution. That point made is likely to be very, very sharp in the end, and we have the sharpest minds on our side.

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:22:00 UTC | #176014

Pattern Seeker's Avatar Comment 8 by Pattern Seeker

Tammy Wood, a science teacher from the Zachary, Louisiana school district, told the committee: "There is absolutely no need for this bill," and added "I am begging you here today to kill this bill."

Kill Bill.

'Nuff said.

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:41:00 UTC | #176020

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 9 by rod-the-farmer

I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that the vast majority of the comments to the newspaper articles (check out the links above) are opposed to this bill. Maybe there is some hope.

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:49:00 UTC | #176021

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 10 by mordacious1

AfraidToDie
Actually, they specificly want to put catholics on the court, and since McCain has promised to put similar judges on the bench, we could be in trouble...

Tue, 27 May 2008 18:50:00 UTC | #176022

ghuckin's Avatar Comment 11 by ghuckin

Has Genie Scott considered a delegation of scientists named Steve to plead the case in Louisiana? (For those who don't know what I'm on about, go to the NCSE website, and do a search for Project Steve. Yes, I could have provided the link. What did your last slave die of?)

Tue, 27 May 2008 19:25:00 UTC | #176027

discipline's Avatar Comment 12 by discipline

The re-branding of creationism as an academic freedom issue is a brilliant PR/marketing scheme by the Discovery Institute et al. It is perfectly designed to hit Americans in their sweet spot. I predict that even moderate Christians will be swayed by the "freedom" argument. I'd be surprised if bills like this don't pass in multiple states.

Obviously, the "god question" was solved centuries ago -- what remains is a tactical/strategic battle... and science and reason aren't winning.

Tue, 27 May 2008 19:28:00 UTC | #176029

jayalenik's Avatar Comment 13 by jayalenik

Sometimes democracy sucks.

Tue, 27 May 2008 19:46:00 UTC | #176035

catskill's Avatar Comment 14 by catskill

If I were a science teacher in LA and this became law, I think I would seriously consider writing up the Navajo Indian creation theory and send it home to all the parents to get signed and to have their kids explain how this alternate theory of creation works.

Here is an excerpt:
But the coyote still had the children of the water monster, and First People were horrified to find the waters of their new world suddenly rising. Again they planted a reed and began to climb, but this time they could not reach all the way. Nor could they find a hole. So the yellow hawk tried to scratch a hole in the dome. The heron and the buzzard also helped, but the locust was the one who finally succeeded in getting through. Then the spider spun a rope so that everyone could climb up through the hole.

You can get the rest here:
http://www.trivia-library.com/a/navajo-creation-story-and-myth.htm

If I were motivated enough I would do a very serious write up on this and send it to everyone who voted for this bill, thanking them that finally the real truth about our creation can be taught to the students in my classroom.

Tue, 27 May 2008 20:06:00 UTC | #176040

bucketchemist's Avatar Comment 15 by bucketchemist

This seems to me to support Dennett's proposal that religion be taught in schools. Not in science classes of course, but since religion is clearly extremely important to a vast number of people and is embedded into western culture to such an extent its absence from the school curriculum is creating problems. I suspect that there would be less pressure to include it within science classes if its existence (although not necessarily its truth) was validated elsewhere.

Tue, 27 May 2008 21:25:00 UTC | #176058

Delsolar16's Avatar Comment 16 by Delsolar16

How exactly do you teach creationism in schools anyway? I think for a creationist it would just take a 5 minute lecture to explain the complexity of not only life on earth, but all of the cosmos as well. They have absolutely no evidence to support any of their beliefs, so how much can they possibly say besides "God did it"?

Tue, 27 May 2008 22:01:00 UTC | #176062

King of NH's Avatar Comment 17 by King of NH

"Caroline Crocker...'said Darwinian evolution is outdated and doesn't explain new findings in science. She also said she had been persecuted in the academic world because of her views...'"

Good! 'I hope they done persecuted her real good,' to borrow her own linguistics. She deserves it.

Personally, I would love to introduce religion into a science class as the teacher, then subject that religion to complete and utter scientific scrutiny. The students would learn how utterly insane the idea of a god is and how mentally incapacitating religion is. Religion in science class should be avoided by anybody hoping to keep religion alive. But then, if the teacher is pushing the religion, then it would be bad for us, good for them, but it wouldn't really be a 'science' class then, would it?

Tue, 27 May 2008 22:06:00 UTC | #176063

Scandinavian07's Avatar Comment 18 by Scandinavian07

"At the hearing in the House committee, Caroline Crocker, CEO of the Intelligent Design and Evolution Awareness (IDEA) Center, "said Darwinian evolution is outdated and doesn't explain new findings in science."

Could someone please give me those findings? I've been looking for them since the age of 16, and I guess must be reading the wrong material.

Hmm, "IDEA", sounds alot like IKEA.. I always get lost in those places. No wonder they're confused.

Scandinavian07

Tue, 27 May 2008 22:11:00 UTC | #176064

EvidenceOnly's Avatar Comment 19 by EvidenceOnly

Is it not ironic that it is exactly those who BELIEVE that their god created everything also refuse to make use of their ability to think which they also claim is god-given?

Worse, they spare no effort to try to stop the rest of us, who KNOW we evolved through natural selection, from using our brains in search of evidence and truth.

Freedom of speech unfortunately but rightfully includes the freedom of some to prove to the rest of the world beyond a reasonable doubt that they really are ignoramuses, IDots, GodDidIt-ists, and the like.

While freedom of speech gives them the right to make a fool of themselves, it does NOT give them the right to force others from following the evidence to wherever it leads to.

It is child abuse to indoctrinate students with anti-evolution, anti-scientific, anti-truths in educational.

The same nonsensical arguments keep coming back. A great, short and sweet article that describes 34 unconvincing arguments for God can be found at:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/34_unconvincing_arguments_for.php

Tue, 27 May 2008 22:12:00 UTC | #176065

VrijzinnigMan's Avatar Comment 20 by VrijzinnigMan

What was Bill Nevers (a Democrat??) thinking? Since when do the students make the decisions on what is science and what is not? What is next, that sunlight can exist without a sun as the creation myth in Genesis seems to imply?

Is the National Academy of Sciences not clear enough on this subject (see "Science, Evolution and Creationism", Third Edition, published earlier this year)?

A biology teacher who does not accept evolution and thinks that ID, which lacks any supporting evidence, is a reasonable scientific alternative to Evolution is incompetent and should be fired.

Tue, 27 May 2008 22:18:00 UTC | #176067

passutoba's Avatar Comment 21 by passutoba

Even when all this idiocy dies a death, future generations will surely looks back and us and laugh, especially when put alongside all the technology we have.

Tue, 27 May 2008 22:25:00 UTC | #176069

Macropus's Avatar Comment 22 by Macropus

At the hearing in the House committee, Caroline Crocker, CEO of the Intelligent Design and Evolution Awareness (IDEA) Center, "said Darwinian evolution is outdated and doesn't explain new findings in science. She also said she had been persecuted in the academic world because of her views," according to the AP.


Isn't it wonderful how religious people use the language of religion to elicit sympathy. Anybody else would have said they'd been criticised in the academic world, but if it's about religion it's persecution.

On the other hand, if she's been saying that Darwinian evolution doesn't explain new findings in science, and if she has not provided good evidence to support this proposition, long may her "persecution" last. Glib statements may satisfy her flock but they deserve all the contempt we can muster.

Tue, 27 May 2008 22:29:00 UTC | #176070

Lightnin's Avatar Comment 23 by Lightnin

Kill Bill.


A genuine and heartfelt 'lol' Pattern Seeker.

Tue, 27 May 2008 22:36:00 UTC | #176072

DavidSJA's Avatar Comment 24 by DavidSJA

Why doesn't write the FSM-inspired version of "Intelligent Design", get it published and see if that might not have an impact on this?

Tue, 27 May 2008 23:49:00 UTC | #176079

PJG's Avatar Comment 25 by PJG

I've said it before... I think Britain and the USA should do a swap:

America can have all our creationists, if we can have all their atheist scientists.

I think that is fair... and it might make these idiots think for a moment.

Tue, 27 May 2008 23:49:00 UTC | #176080

dyak's Avatar Comment 26 by dyak

Why don't they go after historians as well? Historians claim the earth is older 6000 years. And archeologists, linguists, anthropologists.....???

Wed, 28 May 2008 00:37:00 UTC | #176084

epeeist's Avatar Comment 27 by epeeist

Comment #185505 by dyak

Why don't they go after historians as well? Historians claim the earth is older 6000 years. And archeologists, linguists, anthropologists.....???
You think that once they get creationism into the curriculum they won't?

Wed, 28 May 2008 00:46:00 UTC | #176088

Silent.Bomber's Avatar Comment 28 by Silent.Bomber

What a joke.

Wed, 28 May 2008 01:12:00 UTC | #176092

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 29 by irate_atheist

29. Comment #185513 by Silent.Bomber -

What a joke.
Laugh? I nearly shat.

Wed, 28 May 2008 01:17:00 UTC | #176094

EeekiE's Avatar Comment 30 by EeekiE

Child abuse.

Wed, 28 May 2008 01:20:00 UTC | #176095