This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Debate erupts over proposal to teach creationism in Brunswick schools

Debate erupts over proposal to teach creationism in Brunswick schools - Comments

SarahPalin's Avatar Comment 1 by SarahPalin

I just wanted to be the first on this forum to congratulate Brunswick schools on a fine decision. We can't get enough religion into our school system!

Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:52:00 UTC | #243620

Apemanblues's Avatar Comment 3 by Apemanblues

They should definitely cover the bit where life was sweated from the armpits of frost giants.

Norse creation mythology is, apparently, science now.

Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:55:00 UTC | #243623

helenlibra's Avatar Comment 2 by helenlibra

"There is some scientific evidence supporting creationism," the Southern Baptist minister said.

Really? Well, I, for one, would love to know what it is. Ooops! Silly me. It's the bible.

Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:55:00 UTC | #243622

dochmbi's Avatar Comment 4 by dochmbi

"
At the Wat Carolina Buddhist monastery near the county schools' central office in Bolivia, head monk Phra Vidhuradhamma has an inclusive approach to the question. Although Vidhuradhamma knows the law restricts the teaching of religion in schools and it must be followed, he'd like every religion to be taught equally in schools, he said.
"

Yeah sounds like a good idea. Except for the fact that it would take a few decades to go through all the thousands of religions that have been documented.

Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:59:00 UTC | #243626

sunbeamforjesus's Avatar Comment 5 by sunbeamforjesus

Would the 'Reverend'Brad please enlighten us with his 'some evidence supporting creationism'?As you say Apemanblues:It's the bible,how could I have missed that!

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:13:00 UTC | #243636

CJ22's Avatar Comment 6 by CJ22

Holy Zarquon, it's like the flipping dark ages. Yeah, let's annex half the sillabus to spend hours comparing near-meaningless bronze-age myths!

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:17:00 UTC | #243640

beanson's Avatar Comment 7 by beanson

"It just amazes me some of those responses, how venomous they have been," said Fanti


The response has only been in proportion to the enormous stupidity of the proposal

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:25:00 UTC | #243646

MrTicketyBoo's Avatar Comment 8 by MrTicketyBoo

I find it quite amusing that the most reasonable person was the Catholic priest.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:15:00 UTC | #243674

literarydeadkittens's Avatar Comment 9 by literarydeadkittens

Why does creationism need to be taught? Pick up a bible, read the first few pages, and bam! You've passed, you now know all about creation because there's bugger all else to learn.

What a pillock!

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:31:00 UTC | #243678

~manic-depressive's Avatar Comment 10 by ~manic-depressive

"I think the board members are trying to inject their belief in the school system, and that troubles me," Hart said. "As a Christian, I don't think they represent all Christians."

Ah yes, the true Scotsman fallacy. These people aren't the true Christians. The fact that they don't represent all Christians is obvious and would be valid if all Christians did not hold the Bible in some special divine light (and if they didn't somehow manage to convince themselves that despite all evidence to the contrary, their particular god somehow still created life.)


I find it quite amusing that the most reasonable person was the Catholic priest.

Worryingly amusing. When a Catholic priest is saying the most reasonable thing, we really are in trouble. Welcome to the Twilight Zone everyone.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:50:00 UTC | #243685

Tintern's Avatar Comment 11 by Tintern

Interesting how they always try and insert Creationism into science class. It seems logical on the surface, but perhaps the hidden agenda is more concrete; they avoid at all costs the suggestions to teach it in history/civics etc. because that requires comparison and historical perspective. Such a format would ironically be more likely to present debatable facts to students (face it, we don't all have scientifically brilliant analytical minds). It would show the amazing similarity between different religions and how they beg, borrow and steal from each other while claiming exlcusive right and access to the truth and to salvation all for the measly price of your soul and willingness to live in fear. Creationism in the educational system, anywhere outside of the science class, could be dangerously liberating and damaging. Just a rambing thought.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:13:00 UTC | #243697

SoManyStars's Avatar Comment 12 by SoManyStars

"and parent Joel Fanti, who said he wasn't around 2 million years ago to witness evolution at work"

And that's the limit of your temporal education.

"I think it would be good for human beings to learn everything," Vidhuradhamma

Go on give it a try. We'll wait until you report back.

"There is some scientific evidence supporting creationism,"

I'm waiting. And I'm impatient.

"will not try to go against the law to teach creationism, although she would like to see it in the classroom one day."

The bin by teacher's desk would be okay by me.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:21:00 UTC | #243701

Crazymalc's Avatar Comment 13 by Crazymalc

This stuff is depressing. I think Eugenie (sp?) Scott said it best:

"Who pulled out the stake?"

Surely Dover should have settled all this nonsense

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:39:00 UTC | #243713

William Kaiser's Avatar Comment 14 by William Kaiser

"...Fanti, who identifies himself as a chemical engineer..."

Hmmm.... what kind of chemicals I wonder?

Maybe a little Methamphetamine?

From Wikipedia:
"...Amphetamine psychosis can include delusions, hallucinations and thought disorder...

...thought disorder or formal thought disorder is a term used to describe a pattern of disordered language use that is presumed to reflect disordered thinking."

Maybe be this could be the cause of Mr. Fanti's statements.

Hmmmm... "disordered language" I've seen this effect in a Katie Couric interview she had with... now who was talking in a disordered manner with her?

WK

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:55:00 UTC | #243721

notsobad's Avatar Comment 15 by notsobad

irate's comments needed here :)

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:19:00 UTC | #243733

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 16 by Tyler Durden

Oh boy, where to start!

"I don't even know what their definition of religion is. I can argue their views on evolution are a religion, too, because it can't be proven." said Joel Fanti
The argument from being a complete ignoramus.

"There is some scientific evidence supporting creationism," said Rev. Brad Ferguson, a Southern Baptist minister.
Well bring it on. Nobel prize just waiting for you if you can present any of this "scientific evidence".

When asked about his view on how things began, Buddhist monk Vidhuradhamma took a lid off a mug and ran his finger around it, smiling. A circle, he pointed out - with an infinite number of beginnings.
Yawn! Does this kind of mindless waffle actually work on anybody? Really?

After reading e-mails by people disgruntled about the idea of teaching creationism, hearing about the state's point of view and consulting with attorney Kathleen Tanner, Babson said she thinks the board will not try to go against the law to teach creationism, although she would like to see it in the classroom one day.
Oh oh! I can see where this is going...

"Instead of making it a religious issue, let's make it a scientific issue," said Fanti, who identifies himself as a chemical engineer.
By all means, just bring the science, go on, we're all waiting...

*sound of tumbleweed blowing by*

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:23:00 UTC | #243734

Toledosteal's Avatar Comment 17 by Toledosteal

This whole 'controversy' is so pointless. It's like the Brunswick County School Board is a newb at a forum thinking that they're posting this great idea. And then when they get flamed for posting a bad idea that's been heard over and over they get all defensive and whiny.

I feel like this happens every few months and I wish there was some easy way to point out how pointless it is for these people. So unoriginal it is painful.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:23:00 UTC | #243735

CraigB's Avatar Comment 18 by CraigB

"I don't even know what their definition of religion is. I can argue their views on evolution are a religion, too, because it can't be proven."

Mr Fanti's arguments can be settled by a dictionary. Last I heard the definition of religion was NOT something that "can't be proven" - a religion requires a God-figure.

Now it seems to me that not only does evolution not have a god, but it can be proven, in fact there are recent experiments that show evolution in action (google Richard Lenski flask).

Keep cretinism out of schools.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:29:00 UTC | #243738

Ian (South Africa)'s Avatar Comment 19 by Ian (South Africa)

These people are so stupid that they are not even wrong.

It's so depressing readng this kind of thing as it seems that these people are destined to win out in the end through sheer weight of numbers.

The only defence against these wilfully ignorant lackwits is education. Tragically they are a self replicating virus who breed and then indoctrinate their own replacements and I suspect that they are breeding at a greater speed than rationalists.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:32:00 UTC | #243740

the way's Avatar Comment 20 by the way

I think it's very possible that they already do teach creationism in some schools as some posters have pointed out on another thread. They just want to make it legit before they get busted.
I think that most teachers DO understand the concept of evolutionary theory. Especially the science teachers, (RD has said even an 8 year old could understand it). They realise what a threat it is to the foundations of their stone age myths.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:42:00 UTC | #243742

JonLynnHarvey's Avatar Comment 21 by JonLynnHarvey

I think Michael Schermer pointed out that the most sinister element of this is that since the ID folks can NOT win the game in the ADULT playing field (peer-reviewed scientific journals) they then try and sneak it into children's classrooms. It is of course their failure to accomplish the one that makes the other illegal as well as unethical.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:14:00 UTC | #243750

Daydream Believer's Avatar Comment 22 by Daydream Believer

Buddhist monk Vidhuradhamma took a lid off a mug and ran his finger around it, smiling. A circle, he pointed out - with an infinite number of beginnings.


Sounds like a multiverse to me, reckon he's on to something there.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:18:00 UTC | #243752

thedoctor's Avatar Comment 23 by thedoctor

When I was at school, I studied Geography. It taught me the Geological processes that formed the Earth, most of which took many more than 6000 years. This cannot be taught alongside Creationism without screwing up a Child's mind. If Creationism is allowed to be taught, we will end up with Children doubting their Geography and Geology teacher as much as their Physics and Biology teachers. A line has to be drawn in the sand now, before the whole curriculum becomes some wishy-washy-believe-what-you-want-to mess that will take generations to fix.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:43:00 UTC | #243761

liberalartist's Avatar Comment 24 by liberalartist

"and parent Joel Fanti, who said he wasn't around 2 million years ago to witness evolution at work."

Ah! so that's when this evolution thing happened!

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:33:00 UTC | #243787

Ed-words's Avatar Comment 25 by Ed-words

Fr. La Chapelle is afraid his Catholic kids in the public schools will be exposed to contrary
religious beliefs.

The Church is losing a lot of its members
to fundamentalist faiths.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:33:00 UTC | #243788

firstelder_d's Avatar Comment 26 by firstelder_d

Buddhist monk Vidhuradhamma took a lid off a mug and ran his finger around it, smiling. A circle, he pointed out - with an infinite number of beginnings.

Yes being inscrutable is the answer.

Joel Fanti, who said he wasn't around 2 million years ago to witness evolution at work.

So by this 'logic' nothing that happened before we are born even happened. Doesn't he realize this disproves all history, including the 6000 year bible one. This guy shouldn't teach his own kid let alone have a say in other kids, idiot.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:41:00 UTC | #243796

thedoctor's Avatar Comment 27 by thedoctor

I think that Fr. La Chapelle is moving towards more reasoned beliefs just to keep them relevant in the modern world...Bless him, he's on the right path, still a little further to go though.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:47:00 UTC | #243804

Ed-words's Avatar Comment 28 by Ed-words

thedoctor - - (Comment #26)

Fr. La Chapelle has "a little further to go".

He'll reach his destination when he stops

brainwashing his Catholic school students.

"Bless him", and bless First Holy Communion.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:58:00 UTC | #243810

j.mills's Avatar Comment 29 by j.mills

...said Fanti, who identifies himself as a chemical engineer.


That may well be the scariest bit. All the school board people, and this guy, have probably been educated in the very school system they're now controlling, and look how they came out. And this guy is in a job built on science, with obviously no understanding of what science is. Would you buy a used chemical off this man? [Shudder.]

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:08:00 UTC | #243864

nathanthn's Avatar Comment 30 by nathanthn

[quote]Comment #257273 by j.mills on September 30, 2008 at 9:08 am

...said Fanti, who identifies himself as a chemical engineer.


That may well be the scariest bit. All the school board people, and this guy, have probably been educated in the very school system they're now controlling, and look how they came out. And this guy is in a job built on science, with obviously no understanding of what science is. Would you buy a used chemical off this man? [Shudder.]
[quote]

I'm embarressed to be in the same field as him...

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:29:00 UTC | #243921