This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Liddy Dole's Un-American Ad

Liddy Dole's Un-American Ad - Comments

Eshto's Avatar Comment 1 by Eshto

There would be something a bit suspicious about a seven year old claiming to be an atheist.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:51:00 UTC | #265260

NormanDoering's Avatar Comment 2 by NormanDoering

More and more, with each passing election cycle, it seems that the Republican strategy depends on lying to stupid and bigoted people. They have no choice, that's all that is left in their base.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:54:00 UTC | #265266

Bruno's Avatar Comment 3 by Bruno

For whatever it's worth, Dole lost her bid to be re-elected. Hagan won.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:02:00 UTC | #265274

Kiwi's Avatar Comment 4 by Kiwi

Note to moderator: African-Americam change to African-American

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:08:00 UTC | #265284

justdust's Avatar Comment 5 by justdust

There would be something a bit suspicious about a seven year old claiming to be an atheist.

You are probably right.

Is there a word for someone not aware of God?

We are not born atheist. The theist/atheist label only comes with making a choice.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:17:00 UTC | #265308

aussieatheist_111's Avatar Comment 6 by aussieatheist_111

The really awful truth is that Kay Hagan had no choice. She had to proclaim her faith in God. Nobody in this country can get elected for high office today by acknowledging the fact that they are an atheist, an agnostic or even a secular humanist. You would have a better chance getting of elected if you were gay

Very true. Maybe in another 50 years.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:21:00 UTC | #265314

morgantj's Avatar Comment 7 by morgantj

Comment #279006 by justdust said, "Is there a word for someone not aware of God?"

Yes, it is called ignorant. I don't think we are born atheists, I think we are born ignorant. Without knowing of the idea of god first, there is no idea of god to not believe in.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:30:00 UTC | #265324

dochmbi's Avatar Comment 8 by dochmbi

Today a black man, tomorrow a woman and the day after tomorrow a homosexual.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:06:00 UTC | #265374

cristinabories's Avatar Comment 9 by cristinabories

Well I don't know about you, but I will write a letter to Ms. Hagan first congratulating her on her victory and then...
I will ask her to adjust her response to Ms. Dole and not behave like being called an atheist is akin to be accused of depravity.
Here is the link:

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:16:00 UTC | #265384

Lemniscate's Avatar Comment 10 by Lemniscate

I agree that America should not get too self-congratulatory over electing a black man. It's still going to trail miserably behind similarly developed countries in acceptance of homosexuals and atheists.

On the notion that a seven year old couldn't be an atheist. Why not? If some seven year old children can master calculus, then why can't they decide on god? I'd certainly made my mind up on god before calculus.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:49:00 UTC | #265456

frosty's Avatar Comment 11 by frosty

My seven year old is definitely an atheist, with some prompting from myself. He did, however, come be be an atooth-fairiest all by himself (I'm so proud!), but is cleverly hiding any Santa disbelief just in case.

I am having a few more problems with my 5 year old, but I think thats because the lunchtime religious programme bribes his friends with lollies.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:45:00 UTC | #265549

Ed-words's Avatar Comment 12 by Ed-words

"... what she (Dole) has now, is a soiled

This would also apply to Sen. McCain.

(Excellent article - I bet Ms. Quinn is
"one of us")

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:53:00 UTC | #265552

Ed-words's Avatar Comment 13 by Ed-words

Frosty- Comment # 11

You say your seven-year-old is an atheist
"with some prompting from myself"

Isn't that what we criticise religious parents for doing?

(Lunchtime religious programmes? What's that
all about?)

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:58:00 UTC | #265554

Ed-words's Avatar Comment 14 by Ed-words

dochmbi # 8 Glaring omission- - -

. . .and the day after that an atheist

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:33:00 UTC | #265567

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 15 by Agrajag

9. Comment #279082 by cristinabories on November 5, 2008 at 2:16 pm

I sent the following:

Congratulations, Kay! I am extremely pleased that the people in your area rejected the distasteful campaign ads for Elizabeth Dole. I would have been even *more* pleased if you had been able to include a remark to the effect that there are decent, productive and admirable members of society who also do not profess any belief in a god. I count myself among this group.
Best regards,
Steve Weeks, DDS


Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:01:00 UTC | #265575

HappyPrimate's Avatar Comment 16 by HappyPrimate

I was delighted to see Kay won the election. It shows that the voting public is gaining a tolerance, if not acceptance, of the fact that atheists are real citizens and not the evil ones.

On another point that I've been having. While I am delighted we elected Obama, aren't we all African-Americans who live in the US? I guess it depends on the acceptance of the out of Africa theory. Oh and have you heard that Sarah Palin thought Africa was a country, didn't know it was a continent. Ooops! That was a close one.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:38:00 UTC | #265580

ksskidude's Avatar Comment 17 by ksskidude

When will it ever end? Is there ever going to be a time in America when calling yourself an Atheist isn't considered a bad thing?

I personally have come out and made it very clear with my friends, with my family, and with whom I work with. This is not to say I am combative or even argumentative with them; I simply let it be known that I disagree with their particular belief's.

I fear that we will never see a shift in the attitudes of believers, if we do not let it be known that more of us do actually exist.

So please do not be afraid to speak out!!

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:19:00 UTC | #265587

Notcrowingbutyawning's Avatar Comment 18 by Notcrowingbutyawning

1. Comment #278958 by Eshto on November 5, 2008 at 12:51 pm

"There would be something a bit suspicious about a seven year old claiming to be an atheist."

Perhaps, but try this. Eighteen months ago my niece [then eight] returned from school and without prompting announced to her parents 'You know, I don't beleive in god and I think that the bible stories are probably just made up.' When questioned, she felt that there might be something in Big Foot and the Loch Ness monster, though. :O)

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:20:00 UTC | #265588

Ed-words's Avatar Comment 19 by Ed-words

Happy Primate # 16

1.The voters DID care
whether Hagan was an atheist.
The facts showed the charges to be false,
and she was horrified that anyone should
call her such a terrible name.

2. Isn't it sad that so many black voters,
who should know better, voted to ban
gay marriage? Blame it on the Bible!

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:31:00 UTC | #265593

Ian (South Africa)'s Avatar Comment 20 by Ian (South Africa)

This is not a Christian country any more than it is a Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist country, but you certainly wouldn't know it by the rhetoric in this campaign, hitting an all-time low with Liddy Dole's commercial.

Sadly this isn't really true and while I applaud the the intent of the act of seperation the US is demonstrably and aggresively a christian country. Other religious flavours are tolerated as long as they remain sub rosa or remain confined to the particular districts allowed to them.

Edit: And if you are an atheist the chances of becoming pariah are often inversely proportional to the population of the area you inhabit. However you will always be looked upon with suspicion and distrust.

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:51:00 UTC | #265612

Heretic's Avatar Comment 21 by Heretic

Re:Comment #279006 by justdust on November 5, 2008 at 1:17 pm

We are not born atheist.

A new-born baby does not have any political association - Therefore he/she is a-political.

A new-born baby has no sexual interest - Therefore he/she is a-sexual.

A new-born baby has no theistis beliefs - Therefore he/she is a-theist.

Babies ARE born atheists, by the very definition of the 'a' prefix.

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:59:00 UTC | #265657

NJS's Avatar Comment 22 by NJS

I'm with PZ Myers on this. In the euphoria of Obama's victory, people seem to have suddenly assumed that all bigotry and prejudice in the US has magically disappeared forever. The fact is that due to the same African-americans who voted for him, proposition 8 failed. The fact is that we are still a million miles away from a time when an Atheist could be elected.

Obama's victory is a a good step for the US but please don't carried away.

(BTW I'm from the UK and admit a lot of what I said applies here too).

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:11:00 UTC | #265661

windfall's Avatar Comment 23 by windfall

Was extremely put off by NPR's coverage of the Dole-Hagan thing. Wednesday morning they interviewed Hagan and the interviewer used the word 'atheist' in such obvious scare-italics that it made me sick. Something like: 'but she called you an *AYE-theist*?!' The tone was understood to mean, 'she accused you of having the morals of a serial killer.' Again, imagine if the word 'jew' or 'muslim' had been substituted. I'm going to send them an email now that I think about it.

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 04:26:00 UTC | #265755

Cliff Melick's Avatar Comment 24 by Cliff Melick

Thank you, Heretic; babies are born atheist.

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 05:53:00 UTC | #265784

al-rawandi's Avatar Comment 25 by al-rawandi

Ian (SA)

In many parts of America is acceptable to be an atheist. I am fortunate to inhabit one such place. There are still decent centers of culture in the United States. Just not in the red states.

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 06:05:00 UTC | #265789

Ed-words's Avatar Comment 26 by Ed-words

NJS # 22

Right! Just because an Obama, or a Sammy Davis,Jr.,or a Jesse Owens is treated equally,
doesn't mean the less talented black American
is, too.
The property tax funding of public elementary and high schools in the U.S. creates a two-tier
school system. The poorer inner city schools
get the short end of the hickory stick.

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:40:00 UTC | #265901

lbq's Avatar Comment 27 by lbq

"Third, isn't it pathetic that in this day and age, in this country founded on the idea of religious liberty, whose settlers came here to avoid religious persecution, that one could be criticized for one's religious beliefs or lack of beliefs?"

I would question that. Hiram Maxim, inventor of (inter alia) the Maxim Gun, said about his French Huguenot ancestors that they moved to America "in order to freely worship God in their own way, and to prevent everybody else from doing the same." He was right.

The reason for the separation of church and state in the U.S. was not a matter of high principle, but entirely practical. Without it, the different denominations would have burned each other at the stake until nobody was left. Well, maybe not the Quakers. Maybe ...

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:45:00 UTC | #265907

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 28 by irate_atheist

1. Comment #278958 by Eshto -

There would be something a bit suspicious about a seven year old claiming to be an atheist.
Is that why everyone looked askance at me when I was seven?

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:59:00 UTC | #265923

Ian (South Africa)'s Avatar Comment 29 by Ian (South Africa)

Hi Al,

Yes I realise that, hence the inverse proportionality statement. You are lucky where you live except perhaps needing a shotgun under your bed;-)

So are you happy that you now have 'Chope'?


Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:01:00 UTC | #265927

friendlypig's Avatar Comment 31 by friendlypig

1. Comment #278958 by Eshto

There would be something a bit suspicious about a seven year old claiming to be an atheist.

I was a late developer.

I was eight when I realised that Dead Men coming back to life, feeding 5000 from a couple of fish and a bit of bread etc, were just plain silly.

Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:05:00 UTC | #265934