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← Odontochelys, a transitional turtle

Odontochelys, a transitional turtle - Comments

Chris Roberts's Avatar Comment 1 by Chris Roberts

Thanks PZ, I read this article a day or so ago and I feel so much more informed having read your opinions on it.

How lucky we should consider ourselves not just to be able to access such research, but also for learned men such as PZ to share his insights and knowledge with us for no cost and no personal gain.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:24:00 UTC | #280880

mirandaceleste's Avatar Comment 2 by mirandaceleste

Very exciting and informative stuff. Also, the reconstruction is stunningly gorgeous.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:42:00 UTC | #280895

FatherNature's Avatar Comment 3 by FatherNature

Hmmm, a transitional form eh?

Doesn't that win the $900 trillion (or whatever is was) prize offered by the Turkish creationist?

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:45:00 UTC | #280896

Tetsujin's Avatar Comment 4 by Tetsujin

Nope, sorry, it looks like the toy salamander I had when I was 6 to scare little girls in school.

Don't you see' No changes in 220 million years.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:53:00 UTC | #280899

mirandaceleste's Avatar Comment 5 by mirandaceleste

Ha, yeah, Harun Yahya is going to have to give up his 500 million billion trillion dollar prize now. His insanity is seriously the gift that never stops giving, unfortunately enough.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:56:00 UTC | #280901

Jeff (HandyGeek) Handy's Avatar Comment 6 by Jeff (HandyGeek) Handy

Big news!! This should also be sent to "Way of the Master" folks. :D

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:02:00 UTC | #280906

Jeff (HandyGeek) Handy's Avatar Comment 7 by Jeff (HandyGeek) Handy

Comment #294850 by mirandaceleste on December 1, 2008 at 12:56 pm

I mistakenly flagged this comment.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:05:00 UTC | #280910

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 8 by rod-the-farmer

I agree with Comment #1. This is very nicely done, and well explained. Better than the original account, IMHO.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:54:00 UTC | #280952

j.mills's Avatar Comment 9 by j.mills

Limerick Summary News Service!

See the turtley-thing! It's Triassic!
(The germane vertebrae are thoracic.)
It has clearly passed on
Its primeval plastron.
Not just an old fossil - a classic!

Hmm, quite pleased with that one. :)

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:37:00 UTC | #280989

Tagred's Avatar Comment 10 by Tagred

3. Comment #294845 by FatherNature on December 1, 2008 at 12:45 pm

Hmmm, a transitional form eh?

Doesn't that win the $900 trillion (or whatever is was) prize offered by the Turkish creationist?
Nope, there's no fish hook at the end, so it can't.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:52:00 UTC | #281060

Dr. Strangegod's Avatar Comment 11 by Dr. Strangegod

Okay, random guess... the plastron developed because these guys were sliding up on land, and those with more armor on the bottom were able to outbreed those without. Later, those that developed a hard shell on the back were less likely to be eaten while on land. Sound right?

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:18:00 UTC | #281078

j.mills's Avatar Comment 12 by j.mills

No no no. They were given a plastron to protect them from the arrows of hunters. Don't forget this creature lived contemporaneously with Adam's descendants.

(Of course, it did mean they had to run away from the hunters backwards on two legs, but they don't call it special creation for nothing...)

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:50:00 UTC | #281091

ggab7768's Avatar Comment 13 by ggab7768

The plastron shows that they spent a significant amount of time on the surface of the water.
Death from below and all.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:15:00 UTC | #281152

Eshto's Avatar Comment 14 by Eshto

Teenage mutant ninja odontochelyses, heroes in a transitional shell.

Odontochelys power.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:30:00 UTC | #281197

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 15 by Tyler Durden

Wooter,

Here you go... time to get educated.

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:46:00 UTC | #281246

Kit Finn's Avatar Comment 16 by Kit Finn

Well, as it clearly is a fossil demonstrating transitional development, why not go to Yahya and demand the prize money? He was accusing Dawkins of being a coward for not debating with him, so why not hold the man to his word?

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:50:00 UTC | #281247

PhysicsHead's Avatar Comment 17 by PhysicsHead

This is very interesting.
I am however wondering the same as other people here:Can this be considered to be a transitional form for the creationists?
Not that I think they'd accept it anyway but I just want to know if it's something which biologists can shove down their throats since it's what they've been asking for all this time? Anyone on here qualified enough in this area to answer the question?

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:56:00 UTC | #281322

bluecastle's Avatar Comment 18 by bluecastle

Limerick Summary News Service by j.mills (comment 9) is terrific!

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:05:00 UTC | #281401

JFHalsey's Avatar Comment 19 by JFHalsey

j.mills and eshto, for teh win!
Seriously though, you made my day. ^_^

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:03:00 UTC | #281440

Caudimordax's Avatar Comment 20 by Caudimordax

Of course it's not a transitional fossil! It's just a fossil between one kind of turtle and another kind of turtle. What's needed for the big prize is something like, say between a bunny and a turtle. Something with a plastron and long fluffy ears.

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:10:00 UTC | #281444

FatherNature's Avatar Comment 21 by FatherNature

PhysicsHead

To to qualify as a "true" transitional form to creationists, you'd have to find, for example, a creature with the upper body of an ape and the tail of a fish.

They've rigged the game so it's impossible for them to lose, as usual.

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:11:00 UTC | #281445

Caudimordax's Avatar Comment 22 by Caudimordax

"a creature with the upper body of an ape and the tail of a fish. "

You mean like a primitive mermaid? Well, gosh, that seems doable. ;-)

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:18:00 UTC | #281452

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 23 by Tyler Durden

PhysicsHead,

The cretinists (like Kirk Cameron) are looking for the "crocoduck". This is their definition of a transitional fossil. They've no idea what they're talking about, as usual.

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:19:00 UTC | #281453

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 24 by Steve Zara

Comment #295425 by FatherNature

Creationists clearly won't accept that the USA was populated by Europeans at any point...

Because why are there still Europeans? Also, you simply must show that people set up homes somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic.

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:23:00 UTC | #281457

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 25 by Border Collie

Screw the creationists and what they believe or don't believe about this. I've been fascinated with fossils since I was a little kid ... and still am. Great story.

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:24:00 UTC | #281496

severalspeciesof's Avatar Comment 26 by severalspeciesof

20. Comment #295424 by Caudimordax

Of course it's not a transitional fossil! It's just a fossil between one kind of turtle and another kind of turtle. What's needed for the big prize is something like, say between a bunny and a turtle. Something with a plastron and long fluffy ears.
And it would need a knobby tail...

It could be called a turbbit...

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:31:00 UTC | #281502

IaninPA's Avatar Comment 27 by IaninPA

Wow, perfect timing for me since I just got through reading "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin.

Great article for this site by the way; these are always the best kind no matter how much fun it is kicking the shit out of the religidiots.

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:27:00 UTC | #281584

Eshto's Avatar Comment 28 by Eshto

Creationists clearly won't accept that the USA was populated by Europeans at any point...

Because why are there still Europeans? Also, you simply must show that people set up homes somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic.

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:36:00 UTC | #281664

polestar's Avatar Comment 29 by polestar

Father Nature and Steve Zara win today's Funny But Mordantly Accurate Insight prize (it needs a better name and an actual prize, but maybe one will evolve).

Oh, and Eshto gets the just plain Funny prize for the Mutant Ninja Odontochelyses (who presumably evolved the plastron to rest their pizzas on while floating on their backs, the way otters eat oysters).

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:50:00 UTC | #281669

serendipity1's Avatar Comment 30 by serendipity1

..... and the debate (read denial) rumbles on ......

Creationist: This doesn’t represent a transitional fossil.
Evolutionist: Why not'
Creationist: Because there are no transitional fossils.


Creationist: There are no transitional fossils.
Evolutionist: What about the ancestral turtle from the Late Triassic which has recently been discovered in southwestern China'
Creationist: That's just a normal fossil, it's not a transitional fossil – and anyway, where there was previously one gap in the fossil record, there are now clearly TWO gaps in the fossil record! Oh evolutionist, you really have now sold yourself ……

Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:40:00 UTC | #282841