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← Two posts on the World Science Festival

Two posts on the World Science Festival - Comments

pipsy's Avatar Comment 1 by pipsy

Sciernce?

First post

Thu, 07 May 2009 07:39:00 UTC | #357160

mitch_486's Avatar Comment 2 by mitch_486

Just one note: looking at the history of the Templeton Foundation, I noticed that they gave the divisive and anti-Semitic movie “The Passion of the Christ” a $50,000 “Epiphany Prize” for “inspiring films and television.” This comes perilously close to Templeton’s having endorsed anti-Semitism. Please remember that Jews protested assiduously against this film.


Well done, Jerry.

Thu, 07 May 2009 08:14:00 UTC | #357170

thereisnodog's Avatar Comment 3 by thereisnodog

Glad he didn't go i agree with his stance. What ever his words during the discussion the overall sense of the occasion will be positive for the Templeton Foundation and people will indeed see them as an organisation in dialogue etc etc

I think people will end up seeing it this way anyway ... money is the root of the problem..they need to find other sponsors.

Thu, 07 May 2009 08:17:00 UTC | #357171

zecat's Avatar Comment 4 by zecat

that won’t change our feelings that their beliefs are mere superstititions


Aaaah, that feels good! Straight to the point!

Thu, 07 May 2009 08:18:00 UTC | #357172

mitch_486's Avatar Comment 5 by mitch_486

3. Comment #373940 by thereisnodog on May 7, 2009 at 9:17 am

they need to find other sponsors.


I'm actually quite curious to see what their media buy was for any kind of promotion.
Here in Canada, or even on US - based websites, I didn't hear/see any kind of communication for this event.
It would be wise of them to actively seek out potential sponsors and engage in tightly targeted promoting.

That would, at least, reach out to the proper types of sponsors for an event like this.

Thu, 07 May 2009 08:25:00 UTC | #357174

liberalartist's Avatar Comment 6 by liberalartist

I'm glad Jerry Coyne is standing up for scientific integrity. The problem with these kinds of discussions about religion and science is that understanding science gets lost in the argument. As a non-scientist, I know that most people have very little understanding of what real science is, so these "debates" just leave people confused.

Thu, 07 May 2009 08:37:00 UTC | #357177

DoctorE's Avatar Comment 7 by DoctorE

I just came to laught at "religious evolutionist".
muhahaha

Thu, 07 May 2009 08:44:00 UTC | #357178

Needscowbell's Avatar Comment 8 by Needscowbell

Bravo! I admire Mr. Coyne for taking a stand. Hurray science!

Thu, 07 May 2009 09:07:00 UTC | #357185

Thomas Byrne's Avatar Comment 9 by Thomas Byrne

I don't get why he couldn't have just went to the Science Fair and argued against all the points made?


Oh yeah. Waste of time and all that. Lol.

Thu, 07 May 2009 09:09:00 UTC | #357186

Oystein Elgaroy's Avatar Comment 10 by Oystein Elgaroy


We’ve had dance programs interpreting unified theories through choreography and music


WTF?

Thu, 07 May 2009 09:14:00 UTC | #357188

George Lennan's Avatar Comment 11 by George Lennan

Oh great. Just great. Schism in the Church of Science between the Southern Accommodationists of 2009 and the new right No-Surrender True Believers Against NOMA.

Bravo to Coyne and all concerned for making this an issue. If you want to make science look like a religion you're going the right fucking way about it.

Thu, 07 May 2009 09:24:00 UTC | #357191

PERSON's Avatar Comment 12 by PERSON

"10. Comment #373959 by Oystein Elgaroy on May 7, 2009 at 10:14 am
We’ve had dance programs interpreting unified theories through choreography and music"
This sort of thing, I guess. http://gonzolabs.org/dance/

Thu, 07 May 2009 09:54:00 UTC | #357198

root2squared's Avatar Comment 13 by root2squared

Very nice response by Jerry. I admire his principled stance.

I do wonder though if it might not be better to take Templeton money AND then go and criticize and ridicule religion. And as part of your argument, take potshots at Templeton - "Ladies and gentlemen, there are some foolish organizations that try to reconcile faith with science. One that I can recall is the Templeton foundation....."

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:03:00 UTC | #357203

zengardener's Avatar Comment 14 by zengardener

root2squared
I do wonder though if it might not be better to take Templeton money AND then go and criticize and ridicule religion.


That would be nice. I would be too tempted to jump up on the table and rant until they threw me out. Which might be why he isn't going.

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:40:00 UTC | #357221

Scorchio's Avatar Comment 15 by Scorchio

Comment 11. "If you want to make science look like a religion you're going the right fucking way about it".

How so? I am not trying to instigate an arguement, but I am curious about how you arrived at that conclusion.

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:43:00 UTC | #357223

Jerry Coyne's Avatar Comment 16 by Jerry Coyne

Believe me, I thought about going and ranting. But the downside is that I would have had to take Templeton money to do so. In the end, I decided that I'd feel too tainted to do that. And the "discussion" format, especially when the table is loaded with religious apologists and theologians, is not one conducive to promoting non-accommodation of faith and science!

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:44:00 UTC | #357224

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 17 by Bonzai

Why was Brian Greene organizing the conference?

Didn't know he is religious.

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:45:00 UTC | #357225

ColdFusionLazarus's Avatar Comment 18 by ColdFusionLazarus

Oh the taint. The taint!
I'd take the money. I'm such a shallow man.

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:52:00 UTC | #357227

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 19 by Bonzai

I agree with CFL. I will take the money and be an arse in the conference too.

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:56:00 UTC | #357228

squinky's Avatar Comment 20 by squinky

Comment #373959 by Oystein Elgaroy

My thoughts exactly! The quantum moonwalk£ A pirouette singularity£ I may be going out on a branch here but I think dance has less to do with science than religion does.

Well done Jerry! It's time to put other scientists on notice that prestigious scientific scholars say their accomodationist stand is crap!

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:56:00 UTC | #357229

Rodger T's Avatar Comment 21 by Rodger T

16. Comment #373997 by Jerry Coyne

I would`nt be too worried about taking money off the creationists,you could always donate to some deserving charity.
But , I see your point.
It must get frustrating debating the religious,who don`t want reality interfering in their lives or, more importantly,their source of income from the flock.
Keep up the good fight,it is much appreciated. : )

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:57:00 UTC | #357230

Sciros's Avatar Comment 22 by Sciros

I never knew that taking money was absolutely unavoidable even in theory! Is it like the opposite of ransom, they hold family members hostage until you take money from them?

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:58:00 UTC | #357231

root2squared's Avatar Comment 23 by root2squared

16. Comment #373997 by Jerry Coyne

Yes, I can certainly understand that. It's certainly a very principled stance.

I guess I'm just a teeny bit less ethical when it comes to dealing with religion :)

Thu, 07 May 2009 10:59:00 UTC | #357232

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 24 by Bonzai

I am a whore with principle, so I will make my point but still take the money for the gig, thank you very much.

Jerry on the other hand can do it for free, then he would be able to make his point without being tainted. :)

Thu, 07 May 2009 11:05:00 UTC | #357235

George Lennan's Avatar Comment 25 by George Lennan

Ah Scorchio - i just wrote a detailed explanation but scrubbed it. Think i made my point.

Life of Brian all over again.

Thu, 07 May 2009 11:08:00 UTC | #357236

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 26 by Bonzai

George Lennan

Life of Brian all over again.


You mean Brian Greene?

Thu, 07 May 2009 11:10:00 UTC | #357238

Dark Matter's Avatar Comment 27 by Dark Matter

@Comment #373997 by Jerry Coyne on May 7, 2009 at 11:44 am

"Believe me, I thought about going and ranting. But the downside is that I would have had to take Templeton money to do so. In the end, I decided that I'd feel too tainted to do that. And the "discussion" format, especially when the table is loaded with religious apologists and theologians, is not one conducive to promoting non-accommodation of faith and science!"



I completely agree with your position and it is rather distressing that there are any respectable scientist or thinkers who are wasting so much of their precious time on accommodating the incompatible.

I think is this part of a general picture that I describe as the cosy consensus conformity that has blighted modern politics. Many great advances in civilisation have happened through conflict, clashes of ideas as well as the cut 'n' thrust of rational debate but the organisations like the Templeton Foundation exist purely to iron out such differences.

To attend would only legitimise the idea that there is some kind of accommodation to be reached.

Why anyone would want to go probably owes more to the mental acrobatics or torturous excuses that some undergo to justify their blatant double-think and cognitive dissonance.




Dark Matter.

Thu, 07 May 2009 11:13:00 UTC | #357240

Scorchio's Avatar Comment 28 by Scorchio

Comment 25:

Fair enough. Always willing to hear views that don't coincide with my own. Would have been interested just in case I had missed something :)

Thu, 07 May 2009 11:17:00 UTC | #357242

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 29 by mordacious1

Jerry

You made the right decision, I hope the WSF will ponder your points before organizing the next event.

I found this statement from Tracy telling:

"...and yet to willfully ignore the prominent and tumultuous religion-science relationship would be a strange and, dare we say, cowardly omission."

Why cowardly? I think that it's time for all rational persons to just say, "ENOUGH! What the religious believe is totally irrelevant to science".

Thanks for your stance.

[edit] Spelling :(

Thu, 07 May 2009 11:18:00 UTC | #357244

Duff's Avatar Comment 30 by Duff

Professor Coyne is becoming my newest hero. I totally agree with what he did. The money is tainted and should be treated as such.

George Lennon #11.
It isn't a war within the science community. It is a war against the religiousites and they should be given no quarter. Fighting mental illness on this grand scale in the 21st Century requires clear thinking, good ideas and some courage by the individuals on the battle lines. Au barricades!

Thu, 07 May 2009 11:22:00 UTC | #357247