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The savage reality of our darkest days - Comments

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 2 by Stafford Gordon

Cruelty to children is absolutely abhorant and against nature; and whence did it stem?

Thu, 21 May 2009 09:53:00 UTC | #362434

AshtonBlack's Avatar Comment 1 by AshtonBlack

I am deeply shocked at the scale of this!

Thu, 21 May 2009 09:53:00 UTC | #362433

SamKiddoGordon's Avatar Comment 3 by SamKiddoGordon

My blood runs cold reading this, and I have no connection to it, other than being a secular humanist. I would like to say what other evidence does anyone need to have a secular society than this, but alas, not even this would convince some.

Thu, 21 May 2009 09:56:00 UTC | #362436

amuck's Avatar Comment 4 by amuck

The proposed Irish anti-blasphemy law seems designed to protect the individuals and institution (i.e. the Catholic clergy and church) that perpetuated these heinous acts.

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:00:00 UTC | #362440

Rodger T's Avatar Comment 5 by Rodger T

And this is only Ireland, spare a thought for the poor little beggars trapped in these catholic hellholes in Europe,North and South America ,Africa and Australasia.
The parasitic catholic clergy have spread like the plague, preying only on the vulnerable .
But wait, does`nt religion make you MORAL?
Just imagine what these nuns and priests would have been like if they did not have the moral constraint of the church to fall back on./sarcasm.

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:04:00 UTC | #362442

infidel_michael's Avatar Comment 6 by infidel_michael

I'm just wondering, who will be the first to blame this on atheists and liberals?

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:04:00 UTC | #362443

weesam's Avatar Comment 7 by weesam

Ashton - you are shocked?

I'm not. It's totally and miserably predictable.

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:05:00 UTC | #362444

Rodger T's Avatar Comment 8 by Rodger T

The vatican will brush this off ,ignore it and generally avoid any responsibility,they have already got the Irish government to agree to pay most of the compensation.

Fucking gutless cunts that they are.

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:08:00 UTC | #362447

Hywel's Avatar Comment 9 by Hywel

I'd been laughing at this today : today ... until I read the above article. Now it looks more like a serious documentary.

Many a true word and all that.

What astonished me above was that 800 wasn't the number of abused, but the number of abusers

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:21:00 UTC | #362451

lackofgravitas's Avatar Comment 10 by lackofgravitas

I can imagine the cardinals and Nazinger sitting in the vatican now, watching the Italian Job and singing along to their adopted anthem "Self Preservation Society".

vow of Celibacy = fail
No contraception = fail
transubstantiation = Epic fail
zombie apocalypse = failing badly
sky-daddy forgives all = Priceless

I wonder, did the bishops/cardinals give a damn about their congregations when they moved these predatory paedophiles and torturers from one diocese to the next, obviously to avoid 'public outrage'? Did they perhaps pray for their fallen brethren?

Perhaps the Irish state should inform parents when a new catholic priest moves into the area. Oh, and a police check wouldn't go amiss either. In fact, I think all priests should have their records looked at, the ones in the bishop's office, away from the public.

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:27:00 UTC | #362456

mblarson323's Avatar Comment 11 by mblarson323

To " takes religion to make good people do bad things" we can now append "and to give bad people safe haven."

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:35:00 UTC | #362459

friendlypig's Avatar Comment 12 by friendlypig

This should be read out from every Catholic pulpit.

I was listening to the David Vine slot on Radio 2 yesterday when they were interviewing some of those who were abused, it was heart rending.

When I was a lad some of my friends were Catholic and they told me stories about being beaten at school that would make your hair curl. If they were being beaten by their teacher and they swore (which they did frequently) they were then sent around every class in the school to be beaten by the staff.

The Nuns were apparently far worse than the Brothers.

One of the things that I found amazing from the interviews on the TV was that many were still Christian but not Catholic, that indicates just how deep this dangerous nonsense is embedded.

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:45:00 UTC | #362464

beanson's Avatar Comment 13 by beanson

Ah- but you see, they aren't proper christians, and for why? because no proper christian would or could do such things!

I'm not entirely sure where these proper christians are to be found, but they exist nominally at least. One day we may see one, a christian who actually has some moral fibre.

Until then we must insist that christianity is indisputibly a force for good whilst admitting that it seems to turn most of it's practitioners bad. We must on the other hand condemn as morally irredemable those who choose to turn away from all forms of religion yet appear to lead blameless lives.

Religion poisons everything

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:56:00 UTC | #362467

jeroen's Avatar Comment 14 by jeroen

Every church (and every hotel) should have a copy of this report next to the bible.

Thu, 21 May 2009 10:57:00 UTC | #362468

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 15 by Steve Zara

Comment #379443 by beanson

One day we may see one, a christian who actually has some moral fibre.

I have known many. They are good friends. They have taken open and contrary opinions against their respective religious communities (anglican and catholic), and helped me celebrate my civil partnership ceremony years ago, and have also helped to spread the message that gay people are neither wicked or perverse.

I am sorry to upset your convenient simplistic stereotypical world, but life is more complicated.

Thu, 21 May 2009 11:06:00 UTC | #362476

VanYoungman's Avatar Comment 16 by VanYoungman

The thread in the Forum covering this warned a month ago that this would be another Watergate. That was wrong. This makes Watergate look like a child's lie.

Thu, 21 May 2009 11:10:00 UTC | #362479

mlgatheist's Avatar Comment 17 by mlgatheist

For years I had heard of this happening to Native Americans in religious boarding schools. But, I was never certain that it was true.

Back in the 70's there was a priest arrested for molesting boys that he was
"treating" (psychologist) because others had sexually abused them. The judge gave him one year sentence and at the same time gave a non-religious person a 30 year sentence for molesting one boy. While interviewing a Justice of the Arizona Supreme Court, I asked him why a priest would get 1 year of jail while a nonreligious leader would go to prison for 30 years. He stated that prison is to rehabilitate and that the standing assumption is that a man of god is already morally superior to those rehabilitators in the prison system. I asked him if he really thought that this judge gave these men the right sentences and he stated the 30 year sentence sounded correct to him.

A journalist did some checking and found out that this priest had been transferred here from Philadelphia. The Bishop, to keep this out of the courts, promised the police and the victim's parents that he would see to it that the priest was given treatment and then would be assigned to work only with adults. It turned out that the "treatment" was a year at a rest home for priests. The journalist did additional research and found out that the priest had been transferred from the Philippines. Where the Bishop there had promised the authorities and the victims parents the same thing that the Philadelphia Bishop had promised.

I do not know what happened to the priest after he served his year in jail. But, if was forced to be big bubba's "wife" while in jail, it might have been poetice justice.

Thu, 21 May 2009 11:10:00 UTC | #362480

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 18 by Steve Zara

Normally a rather bland programme, this week BBC Radio4's "Midweek" included an interview with Colm O'Gorman. I quote from the BBC site:

Colm O'Gorman is Ireland's executive director of Amnesty International and founder of the charity One in Four, which helps victims of abuse. When he was 14 he suffered sexual abuse over several years by a local parish priest, who went on to be accused of 66 charges of sexual offences against teenage boys. In 1998 he sued the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope. Beyond Belief is published by Hodder & Stoughton.

This was devastating to listen to. The support for the abuse was not just from the Church, but from local communities who refused to accept that abuse was happening at first, and who refused to listen to evidence when they knew it was.

Thu, 21 May 2009 11:18:00 UTC | #362486

Logicel's Avatar Comment 19 by Logicel

There is a good chance, that the despicable Catholics (not the ones who are ashamed and disgusted by these revelations, and are determined for this to never happen again), but the ones who have replaced their conscience, ethics, and empathy with complete devotion and allegiance to The Catholic church--those creepy Catholics (like the Pope)--are probably praying for these victims of the Catholic Church using Catholic prayers. That is how sick they are.

Thu, 21 May 2009 11:25:00 UTC | #362492

flying goose's Avatar Comment 20 by flying goose

This is utterly appalling, this is what can happen when power becomes completeley unaccountable. A culture of secrecy and fear pervades.

Thu, 21 May 2009 11:41:00 UTC | #362500

Mr. Davies's Avatar Comment 21 by Mr. Davies

I'm shocked and disgusted by this, but not really surprised. Here in the USA, the main Irish abuse was dramatized in a film called "The Magdeline Laundries", but there has been no follow up, and of course the church is all " Well thats over in Ireland, and we stopped that practice anyway".
But I'm not quite clear on exactly what schools this occurs in? Work homes? Vocational schools? Are these regular public schools for any students, or are they more like 'reform" schools where the 'unruly" students get sent? (Not that the children deserve this horrific abuse in any way).
Could someone on that side of the pond please elaborate on the educational system a bit?
This report has implications around the globe where church run schools have complete control over the lives of the people who live there.
Why can't the overseeing body (the church) be held accountable and shut down? No, really.. seize all the property of the church, and toss any of the lot who knew about this in prison.

Thu, 21 May 2009 12:13:00 UTC | #362523

Corylus's Avatar Comment 22 by Corylus

Good article. Honest and humane. It takes courage to face up to the truth and use the words that need to be said.

We have to call this kind of abuse by its proper name – torture. We must also call the organised exploitation of unpaid child labour – young girls placed in charge of babies “on a 24-hour basis” or working under conditions of “great suffering” in the rosary bead industry; young boys doing work that gave them no training but made money for the religious orders – by its proper name: slavery.

Thu, 21 May 2009 12:38:00 UTC | #362533

MariaIreland's Avatar Comment 23 by MariaIreland

There are NO WORDS that could adequately portray just the extent of damage that this trail of physical, emotional, and psychological abuse has left within its victims.
No words.

Thu, 21 May 2009 12:56:00 UTC | #362541

ronfac's Avatar Comment 24 by ronfac

Comment 3794444 Steve Zara
I, too, have friends and family who are religious, but let's cut the bullshit.
If someone claims to be a member of any religious sect, RC or otherwise, then they are, in fact, supporters of that sect, and must share in the guilt of these vile and despicable organizations.

Thu, 21 May 2009 13:07:00 UTC | #362548

Peacebeuponme's Avatar Comment 26 by Peacebeuponme


Does that mean that if I listen to rap music, I must share in the guilt of Mystikal, who took part in a gang-rape of his former hairdresser (along with his bodyguards)?

Thu, 21 May 2009 13:10:00 UTC | #362550

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 25 by Tyler Durden

I spent five years being taught by the Christian Brothers back in 80s. Some minor physical abuse and emotional bullying over the years but nothing, absolutely nothing on this horrific scale. What's almost worse is the cover-up perpetrated by the Catholic Church and the state in order to protect the guilty while forgetting about the victims. For shame. These people are barely human.

How can the ever-gullible flock hand over money to these charlatans every Sunday?

Thu, 21 May 2009 13:10:00 UTC | #362549

ronfac's Avatar Comment 27 by ronfac

Sorry, my last post should have referred to Comment 379452. I'm so pissed off at the news that's come out in this report, I can't see straight.

Thu, 21 May 2009 13:13:00 UTC | #362552

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 28 by PrimeNumbers

Final proof, as if it were needed, that religious belief and morality are not tied to each other. You can indeed be good without god.

Thu, 21 May 2009 13:19:00 UTC | #362558

Mr. Davies's Avatar Comment 29 by Mr. Davies

The more I look into this, the more disgusted I get. I found most of what I was wondering about regarding the "schools", I'm just speechless.
Worse though, is the stand of Bill Donahue of the Catholic League - their take is here
Basically, the good-hearted Catholics down play the abuse as "in line with the times", "not that bad", and "the kids were miscreants anyways".
I really wish there is a hell for these monsters and the asses who conspire to allow them to continue.

Thu, 21 May 2009 13:22:00 UTC | #362559

micfur's Avatar Comment 30 by micfur

In reaction to this report the new head of the catholic church in England and Wales, Archbishop Vincent Nichols said it took "courage" for Catholic church members in Ireland who abused children to face up to their actions. BBC link:

Thu, 21 May 2009 13:24:00 UTC | #362563