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← Christian right aims to change history lessons in Texas schools

Christian right aims to change history lessons in Texas schools - Comments

kram50's Avatar Comment 1 by kram50

Deception..lies!!

The ball of badshit keeps rolling along!!

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:34:00 UTC | #381449

Goldy's Avatar Comment 2 by Goldy

It's only lies if not done in the name of God. If it is God's work, it's all OK.

And remember, all you have to do is ask for forgiveness and things will be OK between you and God. You can slaughter millions and lie and cheat and steal for the glory of God - as long as you say sorry on your deathbed, God will forgive. Actually, he's already forgiven because he loves death - otherwise, why would he visit death adn destruction to all just for the sake of a few gay people that he himself made in his image... ?

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:40:00 UTC | #381451

robotaholic's Avatar Comment 3 by robotaholic

The Iranian Taliban is making a fresh push to force religion onto the school curriculum in Tehran with the state's education board about to consider recommendations that children be taught that there would be no Iran if it had not been for Allah.


I really can't see the difference...

Religion is ripping the planet apart

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:43:00 UTC | #381452

heafnerj's Avatar Comment 4 by heafnerj

Hmmm...in a way, I favor this. Imagine describing all the problems religion brings to society. Better to do it in a history class than a science class.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:50:00 UTC | #381453

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 5 by Ignorant Amos

Ahhh yes, religions part to play in the formation of the U.S.A.....well I hope they won't leave out the religious persecution of the Ulster Scots (Scots Irish as the Americans like to call them)frontiers men driven out of Ulster in the 1700's by religious bigotry, hardy men who paved the way to the interior of North America and then on to the west coast, over 200,000, who later took up arms against the British in the war of independance(payback).

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:54:00 UTC | #381455

jamiso's Avatar Comment 6 by jamiso

Hay this is not a bad idea actually. Seeing as how much of the bill of rights was inspired, in part, as reactions to the puratians excesses and episodes of religious sectarian violence (such as freedom of religion and from cruel punishment).

It will help students understand better the reason for a secular state. Ya think they will teacg about the influence of deism?

but I'm guessing that is not the way they plan on going with it.

arg... these pinheads will never understand that the USA (and much of the modern western world) is founded on Greco-Roman principles..NOT Judeu-Christian.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:20:00 UTC | #381458

NewEnglandBob's Avatar Comment 7 by NewEnglandBob

The christian wrong, shitting all over once again.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:24:00 UTC | #381459

Dhamma's Avatar Comment 8 by Dhamma

OT: Is it just me or is the server down at least once an hour?

I'm getting a tad frustrated at it, especially as this site is about science.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:27:00 UTC | #381460

Chris Roberts's Avatar Comment 9 by Chris Roberts

Yup, Christianity played a major role in the US constituton - the wise founding fathers wanted it nowhere near their government.
Just something for the little people to worry about, and seeing how much damage it causes I couldnt blame them.

That's why the US constitution is based on the geat biblical traditions of freedom, self determination, democracy, trial by jury of your peers etc.

Not sure about the right to bear arms though, don't think Jayzus wiuld really have approve that one himself.
Maybe his Dad thought it was OK, he liked bit of killing didn't he?

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:33:00 UTC | #381462

InfuriatedSciTeacher's Avatar Comment 10 by InfuriatedSciTeacher

This goes along well with the false quotes from Franklin and Jefferson that they love to smear all over billboards... Why not re-write history to go along with their views? UGH.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:43:00 UTC | #381463

Beachbum's Avatar Comment 11 by Beachbum

The Texas Board of Education needs to be populated with educators not dogmatists. The US was founded in spite of religion not because of it, the religious nuts that formed the colonies were proud British subjects. The founders of our country were rebels; enlightened men of fiber and grit with a vision that changed the world. Those religious idiots should not insult them with this falsehood. At the same time, I welcome an intelligent, educated, discussion of the facts of history. Unfortunately, I do not think this is what the members of the Texas SBOE have in mind.

The religious pundits of this education war front, fear the truth of history, the facts verified by many disciplines and this makes me wonder -- is it "god fearing" or fearing for god.

edited /sp

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:02:00 UTC | #381464

w!9's Avatar Comment 12 by w!9

Deja vu

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:25:00 UTC | #381471

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 13 by Ignorant Amos

8. Comment #398868 by Dhamma

I thought it was just my internet connection booting me off.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:25:00 UTC | #381472

leviticus's Avatar Comment 14 by leviticus

It's amazing how unabashedly these fundies rewrite our national history.

Barton says children should be taught that Christianity is the key to "American exceptionalism" because the structure of its democratic system


Americas exceptionalism had very little to do with the fact that the vast majority of it's early citizens were christian. Western civilization had been dominated by christianity for a thousand years without such a breakthrough, so i would find it highly unlikely that christianity was the main influence on the formation of our unique democratic system. I would argue that our system was developed as a reaction of the previous millennium of dictatorial christian societies. Our founders wanted to live in a society where the church did not control the state, where national banks and taxes didn't enslave it's citizens. Our founders wanted to protect our right to practice whatever religion we choose, even though many were deists who were appalled by organized religion. They wanted nothing like the theocracy these fundies keep pushing for. It's sad that as a country the United States is becoming what we originally set out to escape, a theocracy.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:31:00 UTC | #381474

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 16 by Ignorant Amos

14. Comment #398882 by leviticus

Well said.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:42:00 UTC | #381479

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 15 by rod-the-farmer

Time for Texas universities to state that any student from a Texas high school wishing to enroll in a Texas university will have to undergo a one year remedial science and history course, to wipe out the garbage they have been taught by Texas high schools. This remedial course to be at the expense of those students who are affected.

Also time for the school textbook publishers to finally tell the Texas Board of Education the rest of the country has had enough of their imbecilic crap, and they will have to pay more for their own biased view textbooks. Texas books will NOT be used as the model for other states.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:42:00 UTC | #381478

Squigit's Avatar Comment 17 by Squigit

Ignorant Amos and Dhamma:

I also thought it was just me...

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:45:00 UTC | #381481

DAVE1618's Avatar Comment 18 by DAVE1618

I can't believe this crap. I have no words.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:50:00 UTC | #381483

w!9's Avatar Comment 19 by w!9

18. Comment #398891 by DAVE1618

I can't believe this crap. I have no words.




Nothing new From Scopes to Dover Trial...

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:55:00 UTC | #381486

Sonic's Avatar Comment 20 by Sonic

I noticed this about the Christian right in the last US presidential election -
#1 - They conflate their sect of Christianity with all of Christianity,
#2 - They conflate Christianity with all of religion,
#3 - They conflate religion with all of morality and ethics.

All that equivocation lets them conflate a deist god called "God" with a Christian god called "God". While those two gods may share the same name, they are very different things.

I also missed any part of the Bible that could be read as spelling out any principles for what we would recognize as a democratic form of government. Thanks to jamiso for #398866 pointing out the obvious, that our principles of democracy are Greco-Roman, not Judeo-Christian. Excellent #398882 by leviticus, too.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:27:00 UTC | #381488

Beachbum's Avatar Comment 21 by Beachbum

Comment #398896 by Sonic

You would think, with all that conflation they could avoid sounding like a flat tire.

Flop. Flop flop flop flop...

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:43:00 UTC | #381492

JonLynnHarvey's Avatar Comment 22 by JonLynnHarvey

We should talk more than we do in history classes about the role of Christianity in American culture (novels, poetry, various political activists & movements etc.), but not about it's role in founding the Constitution, because well...it just ain't there!!

Problem is a responsible historical discussion of Christianity & religion in American history would have to cover both the arrogance of Christian rationales for slavery as well as Christian abolitionists (you Brits know an abolitionist is an anti-slavery activist, right?) like William Lloyd Garrison and atheist abolitionists like Harriet Martineau, and the many conflicts between religious groups like the Puritan persecution of Quakers, etc. etc. and this is just what fundamentalists do not want, hence the tendency to keep this stuff out of public school history, since it would actually offend them.

Dan Quinn of the Texas Freedom Network, which describes itself as a "counter to the religious right", called the recommendations "troubling".
"I don't think anyone disputes that faith played a role in our history. But it's a stretch to say that it played the role described by David Barton and Peter Marshall. They're absurdly unqualified to be considered experts. It's a very deceptive and devious way to distort the curriculum in our public schools," he said.


As stated in an earlier post of mine in the first article on this subject, I have a sneaking admiration for the first Rev. Peter Marshall, who was Congressional chaplain during World War 2, and is the biological father of the current Rev. Peter Marshall, who was raised by his much more right-wing stepfather.

I don't always buy Sam Harris' theory that nice moderate religion is an enabler to more nasty toxic religion, but the history of the Marshall family would be an example that backs SH up if ever there was one.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:04:00 UTC | #381497

Beachbum's Avatar Comment 23 by Beachbum

Not being one to purposely invoke involuntary convulsions, be warned, here is a glimpse of this David Barton from the above board. This is from youtube:
http://tinyurl.com/ldlkgu

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:07:00 UTC | #381499

SPS's Avatar Comment 24 by SPS

From the article:

"government exists primarily to protect God-given rights to every individual"

I forget my christian history - does he mean "god-give rights" like slavery or genocide? I get those two mixed up.

Now, if I remember the christian right cheer, it goes something like this, "Lie, deny, repeat." Altogether now "Lie, Deny, Repeat! Go Team!"

Link suggestion for site:
Left-clicking a link should open a new window or tab rather than re-directing from the current page. That's just my preference,though.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:08:00 UTC | #381500

Fuller's Avatar Comment 25 by Fuller

I don't think it's extreme to call these people more than a little bit mental.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:20:00 UTC | #381502

Mr. Forrest's Avatar Comment 26 by Mr. Forrest

Willful ignorance of facts now counts as education? Holy fucking shit.

Knowledge is power... I suppose its a good thing the religous are so fucking hellbent on not learning anything at all.

Oh, and did you notice this little gem?

"Barton, a former vice-chairman of the state's Republican party, said that Texas children should no longer be taught about democratic values but republican ones. "We don't pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands," he said."

Great, so not only do you want factually incorrect dogma taught to children, you also want to use public schools as a political re-education/indoctrination centre?
Wow, just wow. These people care nothing for democratic principles, they are the footsoldiers af totalitarianism risen again. And what a fucking surprise that they're religious, eh?

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:00:00 UTC | #381505

MelM's Avatar Comment 27 by MelM

Chris Rodda debunking David Barton--on new videos

I recently discovered the series of 9 YouTube videos about David Barton that Chris Rodda placed on her "Liars For Jesus" book site--they were posted earlier in 2009 but I only ran across them last week. There is a section up front about a personal encounter with Barton and the rest debunk some of his "Christian" American history. If you haven't read "Liars For Jesus", this will give you an idea about what Barton is doing and about what's in Rodda's book.
http://www.liarsforjesus.com/
(page down once to find the 1st video)

Some who remember H.R. 888 should be advised that it's been brought back as H.R. 397 by Rep. Randy Forbes. He challenged Obama or anyone else to debate him about "Christian Nation" and Rodda said the other day that she'll send Forbes an offer to debate him about H.R. 387.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/7/19/181910/929/Front_Page/I_Accept_Rep_Randy_Forbes_s_Challenge_for_Someone_to_Debate_Him

Rodda mentions in these videos that her work of debunking some of the 75 "whereas" clauses of H.R. 888 found its way to some House committee staffers and helped kill H.R. 888.

Rodda isn't going to be a "TV personality" anytime soon but it's still nice to see and hear her talk--even with limited formal education, she's an indefatigable debunking machine. Barton also is seen many times in these videos but I find him nauseating.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:16:00 UTC | #381506

Beachbum's Avatar Comment 28 by Beachbum

In addition to excellent comments #398882 by leviticus and #398905 by JonLynnHarvey, I would like to add that our country was considered the crowning achievement of the Enlightenment, a secular movement. Also, James Madison the main author of the Constitution... well here is a comment I posted some time back:

It seems that our Constitution and Three Branches of Government Came from a Freethinker's book that was put on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Pope at the time of Publication in (1731).

From Baron de Montesquieu

His opus, The Spirit of Laws (1731), promoted a republican democracy, the separation of powers, specifying "three estates"--legislative, executive and judiciary, and called for the abolition of slavery and of religious persecution. The book has remained in print, and was a major inspiration to James Madison and the American founders, who adopted a Constitution closely patterned after Monesquieu's political philosophy. The most radical notion in his work was the omission of a role for clergy in government.


There is so much evidence contrary to the remarks of David Barton and others I have heard espousing this revisionist history bullcrap. One would think that they would be embarrassed by the shear amount of documentation available to rebut their position.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:26:00 UTC | #381507

Chayanov's Avatar Comment 29 by Chayanov

"Opponents have decried the move as an attempt to insert religious teachings in to the classroom by stealth, similar to the Christian right's partially successful attempt to limit the teaching of evolution in biology lessons in Texas."

Stealth? They're outright stating that the only good Americans are Christians.

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:32:00 UTC | #381508

shaunfletcher's Avatar Comment 30 by shaunfletcher

I think I see it actually..

See if it wasn't for religious repression in europe (of religious people by religious people of other sects) a lot of the colonies would not have come into being, ergo religion is responsible for the founding of those colonies and thus the nation. Without religion to provide that real quality repression you dont get in boring old secular societies people would likely have stayed at home.

Or something ;)

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:34:00 UTC | #381509