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Faith groups to be key policy advisers - Comments

lol mahmood's Avatar Comment 1 by lol mahmood

Oh for fuck's sakes! Words fail
me!

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:05:00 UTC | #413609

Ivan The Not So Bad's Avatar Comment 2 by Ivan The Not So Bad

Meanwwhile, over at the Conservative (opposition) party:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8360863.stm

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:18:00 UTC | #413612

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 3 by Jos Gibbons

[Religious values] were essential in building a "progressive society".
Religions are scriptural. They cannot be progressive, only conservative.
Anyone wanting to build a more progressive society would ignore the powerful role of faith at their peril
He doesn't know how right he is!
We should continually seek ways of encouraging and enhancing the contribution faith communities make on the central issues of our time.
All attempts to do that have simply blindsighted people by bringing up false issues of our time. Would we even be debating gay marriage if some theists didn't think a book was an argument against it? No; it would have taken its rightful position long ago.
"[Faith can cause] honesty, solidarity, generosity"
If you want honesty, don't go to people who pretend to know things any true scientist recognise nobody knows. If you want solidarity, don't get your advice from groups who disagree on the very issues most important to their worldviews, such as whether Jesus was Lord. If you want generosity, don't ask it of those who willingly accept your tax-free benefits.
"[Faith groups should tell us] how to inform the rest of society about these issues"
If he means honesty, solidarity and generosity, people are already naturally clued up on these things, and what little can enhance it further is usually found to come from those who think as individuals, not as followers.
I don't think you should have special treatment or special favours for any particular faith
Oh no. That's why you're advocating them for two particular faiths.
I don't like the strand of secularism that says that faith is inherently a bad thing
That's antitheism, not secularism. Secularism dislikes church-state entanglement. Given Denham's poor defence of it, one can see why.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:21:00 UTC | #413613

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 4 by Stafford Gordon

There's an election coming up; politicians are just after votes; doesn't matter where they come from; politicians are vote junkies; social whores.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:23:00 UTC | #413615

EvolvedDNA's Avatar Comment 5 by EvolvedDNA

Would appear to me to be an opportunity for vote getting and nothing else. Maybe if these politicians can tell us what theese religious groups have come to the table with in the past it would be a start, most of them are only interested in furthering their own cause anyway. Also, as these groups are tax exempt how come society is again allowing them to have input into to how the country needs to be run or governed?
lets tax them first, then have input, along with a voice from the secular side.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:26:00 UTC | #413616

Opisthokont's Avatar Comment 6 by Opisthokont

However, Mr Denham argued that Christians and Muslims can contribute significant insights on key issues, such as the economy, parenting and tackling climate change.


I am extremely curious as to what insights can be put forth on climate change that are inherently Christian or Muslim.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:32:00 UTC | #413621

littletrotsky13's Avatar Comment 7 by littletrotsky13

Grr this is frustrating, I'll just vote green and be done with it.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:37:00 UTC | #413625

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 8 by Steve Zara

This is wrong in so many ways.

If they involve faith groups in matters of human rights or education, it will be a disaster.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:39:00 UTC | #413626

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 9 by Mr DArcy

I am extremely curious as to what insights can be put forth on climate change that are inherently Christian or Muslim.


Religios and politicians invariably produce more hot air, and this gives them a "special" insight maybe?

The rapture Christians want global warming and see it as a sign of the end times. I don't know enough about the Islamics, but didn't Allah give the Arabs so much oil so that they could sell it to industrialised countries?

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:50:00 UTC | #413628

chewedbarber's Avatar Comment 10 by chewedbarber


However, Mr Denham argued that Christians and Muslims can contribute significant insights on key issues, such as the economy, parenting and tackling climate change.


Of course they can and nobody says otherwise, it's just that those of us who are sane choose to say something like "as economists, pediatricians and scientists." and not as Jew, Muslim, and Christian.

I also think blacks could probably contribute something as well, better grab a handful of them too. Yes, yes, and what about that black fellow there, what does he have to say about the climate? "I'm a fucking scientist you asshole!"

Only in this case it would be more like, "I'm a rabbi asshole, what do I know about the climate, I could maybe draw a circle and pray for rain!? Oh, you're asking me as a scientist. Well why didn't you just say so, and why am I sitting at a table apart from those scientists? --wait a minute..."

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:13:00 UTC | #413636

JackR's Avatar Comment 11 by JackR

That's it. I have to move back to New York. The UK is clearly becoming some sort of foul mutant blend of the Dark Ages and 1984.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:20:00 UTC | #413638

j.mills's Avatar Comment 12 by j.mills

"I don't like the strand of secularism that says that faith is inherently a bad thing to have and should be kept out of public life," Mr Denham said.
And why should anybody give a shit whether you like it, Mr Denham?

The religious panel is being launched this week to coincide with a series of interfaith initiatives designed to increase social cohesion.
So much stupid in so few words...

This government is as sycophantically adoring of "faith" as it is of the private sector. How long before evidence gets a place at the table? Let's ask Professor David Nutt...

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:25:00 UTC | #413640

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 13 by Bonzai

WTF? You people from the UK should write to newspapers and politicians to speak out. Make a lot of noises!

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:28:00 UTC | #413642

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 14 by Bonzai

However, Mr Denham argued that Christians and Muslims can contribute significant insights on key issues, such as the economy, parenting and tackling climate change.


Is this a fucking Monty Python skit or a spoof from the Onion?

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:31:00 UTC | #413643

stephen.stallebrass's Avatar Comment 15 by stephen.stallebrass

Oh for fuck's sakes! Words fail me!


My words exactly...

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:34:00 UTC | #413645

JSB2024's Avatar Comment 16 by JSB2024

WHEN WILL REASON GET A WORD IN?
STAND UP AND SHOUT!

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:48:00 UTC | #413649

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 17 by rod-the-farmer


However, Mr Denham argued that Christians and Muslims can contribute significant insights on key issues, such as the economy, parenting and tackling climate change.

Well, OK, how about asking the physically disabled about climate change ? Their opinion is worth something. Morris dancers are always good for a quote on the economy. And for parenting, why would you not ask Formula One drivers ?

Who IS this Denham twit ?

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:19:00 UTC | #413653

Barry Pearson's Avatar Comment 18 by Barry Pearson

Double facepalm

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:19:00 UTC | #413654

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 19 by God fearing Atheist

2. Comment #431953 by Ivan The Not So Bad


From the linked article:-


Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg sparked controversy when he became the only leader of a major party to openly declare he does not believe in God.


Looks like the Lib Dems have just become the atheist party of choice. Pity they have little chance of significant influence in a "first past the post" election system.

Must look up how far behind Labour the Lib Dems are in my constituence. Maybe if I write to my MP she will be worried enough about her seat to do something.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:29:00 UTC | #413656

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 20 by Richard Dawkins

This ridiculous man, John Denham, is the Secretary of State for "Communities". What are "Communities"? You may well ask. The simplest translation would be: "John Denham is Secretary of State for sucking up to Muslims". His website is http://www.johndenham.org.uk/
If you go there, you can discover that his eMail address is
john@johndenham.org.uk
Why not use it to send him a message?


Richard

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:30:00 UTC | #413657

Quine's Avatar Comment 21 by Quine

And by such corrosion are freedoms of thought and speech dissolved away, grain by grain.

If you can't get a separation of church and state law passed NOW, when will you ever?

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:39:00 UTC | #413659

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 22 by Steve Zara

Comment #431998 by Richard Dawkins

I am so glad this dangerous development has been publicized here.

I will e-mail John Denham, and if there is any other way you can suggest to deal with this worrying decision, I would be grateful.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:42:00 UTC | #413660

archfarchnad's Avatar Comment 23 by archfarchnad

"Faith is a strong and powerful source of honesty, solidarity, generosity – the very values which are essential to politics, to our economy and our society."

What planet is this guy on? What honesty, solidarity and generosity some of these religious hypocrites show when they're allowed to squeeze out state benefits for their THREE concubines as well as their family. And don't anyone of you criticise it and be "culturally insensitive."

Seriously, it's not like me to rave about things but this Denham bloke needs his head read.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:44:00 UTC | #413661

Friend Giskard's Avatar Comment 24 by Friend Giskard

RE: Comment #431994 by rod-the-farmer on November 15, 2009 at 10:19 pm

If the morris dancers want a place at the table, some of their number should blow up a few trains. That's how the faith heads have won their privileged access to the legislature.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:47:00 UTC | #413662

megacephalanthropus's Avatar Comment 25 by megacephalanthropus

Science & technology advance a society, not superstitions!

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:00:00 UTC | #413666

Nunbeliever's Avatar Comment 26 by Nunbeliever

Mr Denham argued that Christians and Muslims can contribute significant insights on key issues, such as the economy, parenting and tackling climate change.


My oh my!!! Economy and CLIMATE CHANGE??? Has this man lost his mind??? What would be the christian answer to climate change? Pray and pray some more? The christian way to tackle an economical crisis? Pray and pray some more?

This kind of stupidity should be illegal. I think bringing out the pillory wouldn't be such a bad idea for people like this. On the other hand he's doing a mighty good job himself ;-)

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:02:00 UTC | #413667

megacephalanthropus's Avatar Comment 27 by megacephalanthropus

"Mr Denham said it was wrong to give special status to minority faiths, such as Islam"

Islam is the worlds second largest religion!

"and stressed that faiths should not be free from criticism."

I can agree here!

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:07:00 UTC | #413670

Logicel's Avatar Comment 28 by Logicel

"and stressed that faiths should not be free from criticism."
______

Yup, criticism is fine as long as everybody agrees that religion is a force for good and that it should be respected. In other words, no real and solid criticism is to be allowed, that is, no criticism or evidence that shows that the very core of religious beliefs, that is faith, is problematic for society.

Yes, please, you UKers, follow Richard's suggestion and give this bloke some insightful criticism.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:26:00 UTC | #413677

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 29 by Richard Dawkins

Dear Mr Denham
Why stop at 'faith groups'? Surely the following are at least as well qualified as 'faith groups' for a seat on your panels of 'policy advisers': stamp collectors, hill walkers, professional pingpong players, embroiderers, model railway buffs, ballroom dancers, trainspotters, balletomanes, bassoonists, yachtswomen, pub-quiz players, and contenders for the world record for oily rag clutching.
Richard Dawkins

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:32:00 UTC | #413679

zengardener's Avatar Comment 30 by zengardener

Religion has no moral authority.
None.

A person with a doctorate in Middle Earth has as much right to sit at the table.

Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:38:00 UTC | #413681