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← Religion seen an 'oddity' by ministers, Archbishop says

Religion seen an 'oddity' by ministers, Archbishop says - Comments

mjwemdee's Avatar Comment 1 by mjwemdee

[Archbishop of Canterbury] Dr Williams told The Daily Telegraph: “The trouble with a lot of Government initiatives about faith is that they assume it is a problem, it’s an eccentricity, it’s practised by oddities, foreigners and minorities."




So spake the peculiar bearded Welshman in a long cape and pointy hat.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:37:00 UTC | #423273

InfuriatedSciTeacher's Avatar Comment 2 by InfuriatedSciTeacher

I'm sure it hasn't occurred to Rowan Williams that relgion being utterly false and ridiculous has anything to do with it being considered an oddity£

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:41:00 UTC | #423275

keddaw's Avatar Comment 3 by keddaw

Part of establishing their human credentials is saying 'This is where my motivation comes from...'

So their human credentials are established by saying their motivation comes from a possibly non-existent being in a possibly non-existent realm? How about saying their motivation comes from leprechauns? And Anglican bishops get seats in the House of Lords...

A government spokesperson said it did recognise "the important role faith plays in shaping the values of millions of people in this country".

The same faith that has such equitable treatment of gays and women? The same faith that does not speak out against honour killings? The same faiths that mutually support the genital mutilation of young boys and, to a lesser extent, girls? Yes, faith is such a good shaper of the values of millions.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:44:00 UTC | #423278

Pete.K's Avatar Comment 5 by Pete.K

Crikey, in a country where 'class' has been a major issue and the House of Lords is still seen as elitist, we have a man who lives of the working classes of Britain, in homes that a lottery winner couldn't afford, and he is trying to tell us we need him and his ilk! When Rowan Willimas has done a hard days work I might take some notice of him, but meanwhile he should retire to his palace and shut up.

The church should have no say in how the country is run, most church leaders are about as disconnected from real life as is possible, anyway the idea of clergy advising politicians is like the blind leading the blind.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:45:00 UTC | #423280

Dave Porter's Avatar Comment 4 by Dave Porter

"Pope's invitation

He said it would not do "any harm" for political leaders to be more open about their religious beliefs."

Yeah, we don't want to end up with elected nutcases like in America.

"A government spokesperson said it did recognise "the important role faith plays in shaping the values of millions of people in this country"."

Look how it shapes the minds of pedophile priests, greedy corporate executives, etc, & why most inmates in jails are religious nuts too.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:45:00 UTC | #423279

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 6 by Jos Gibbons

the important role faith plays in shaping the values of millions of people in this country
One example of such millions are the 2 million or so Muslims, of which the proportion in support of terrorist Jihad is approximately one third, far from the zero figure seen elsewhere. The two million fundamentalist Christians in this nation are another example of such millions, this time doing everything in their power to enforce those conservative sexual policies that are also the most dangerous, not to mention their anti-science agenda. Williams is right - it shapes millions' values all right.
[The Government assumes religion] is a problem, it's an eccentricity, it's practiced by oddities, foreigners and minorities
Believing invisible people want you to do things that are otherwise unjustified seems pretty odd to me, and all non-Christian religions are almost exclusively those of whichever Britons we care to consider "foreign" (not that we should any more), and all but the vaguest of religious ideas are minority now.
The effect is to denormalise faith, to intensify the perception that faith is not part of our bloodstream. And, you know, in great swathes of the country that's how it is
So, you're objecting to people telling the truth? Surely anything that's not part of the bloodstream in one part of the country isn't elsewhere full stop. If it were innate, you wouldn't need extra privileges to make it mainstream. Despite many violations of secularism in Christianity's favour, its churches have fewer than 1 million regular visitors in the UK.
[Anglicans see papal infallibility as] a theologically rather eccentric option
Ah, so you know how we feel after all?

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:53:00 UTC | #423283

elise97's Avatar Comment 7 by elise97

"Political leaders should be more open about their beliefs, he added. "

i agree. cos i wanna know which ones are nuts !

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:54:00 UTC | #423285

Pete.K's Avatar Comment 8 by Pete.K

Bloody blimey, the comment on that thread are closed after only two days, and the vast majority of comments are NO religion in politics, but I somehow doubt that Rowan Williams will get the message, he will fight to maintain what little grip he still has on the governance of this country, to not fight could see him having to actually work for a living.

There are 26 bishops in the House of Lords, they get their seats automatically, just for having sponged off the worshiping classes for long enough to be alive when a sitting bishop falls off his perch.

Our American cousins think that Britain is a secular state, and it may appear so on the surface, but the church is deeply embedded in government, and supported by the likes of Tony Blair, who didn't come out as a christian fundie until after he had left office.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:03:00 UTC | #423288

alabasterocean's Avatar Comment 9 by alabasterocean

mjwemdee:
"So spoke the peculiar bearded Welshman in a long cape and pointy hat"

-He he... (FUN!)

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:05:00 UTC | #423289

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 10 by hungarianelephant

What's his problem? Didn't Jesus tell him to expect persecution? Oh, wait, he's not talking about persecution. He's talking about "denormalisation".

[Quick check]

Nope. Computer finds no reference to "denormalise", "denormalising" or "denormalisation" in the Bible, or in the 39 Articles.

OK, beardy. Carry on.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:15:00 UTC | #423292

jel's Avatar Comment 11 by jel

instead of paying more attention to these freaks, the simple fact that they believe such stupid nonsense should bar them from being taken seriously at all. does this idiot also want the government paying attention to david icke and his followers who believe the royal family are alien reptiles? lets face it, that's no more silly that what rowan williams believes

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:31:00 UTC | #423295

TranshumanAtheist's Avatar Comment 12 by TranshumanAtheist

I think christianity has a future as a form of Creative Anachronism. The Pope dresses every day like he plans to go to a Renaissance Faire.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:23:00 UTC | #423305

PJG's Avatar Comment 13 by PJG

It is hilarious isn't it?

I can't believe the ABofC is not intelligent enough to see the irony. There he is, in a particularly outrageous gold and white get-up with an equally ridiculous hat, stating that others (in this case politicians) might see faith as being an eccentricity practiced by oddities!

When I saw this on the BBC news, I wondered whether the Archbishop, who seems like a rather sweet, kind man, if a little naive and confused, doesn't look around himself at religious gatherings and wonder exactly what planet he has landed on. Perhaps his whole statement is a projection of his own attitude to faith and religion?

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:26:00 UTC | #423307

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 14 by SaganTheCat

Political leaders should be more open about the voices in their head, he added.


amen

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:27:00 UTC | #423308

lordshipmayhem's Avatar Comment 15 by lordshipmayhem

"they assume it is a problem, it's an eccentricity, it's practised by oddities" ...and this is incorrect, WHY exactly?

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:36:00 UTC | #423313

MarcCountry's Avatar Comment 16 by MarcCountry

I read ""The trouble with a lot of government initiatives about faith is that they assume it is a problem, it's an eccentricity, it's practised by oddities..." and then that picture of Rowan Williams came up.

LOL!

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:52:00 UTC | #423317

Dark Matter's Avatar Comment 17 by Dark Matter

Rowan Williams says:


"faith is that they assume it is a problem, it's an eccentricity, it's practised by oddities, foreigners and minorities."


This is very funny coming from a man in dress who believes in Bronze age fairy tales. Someone should tell him that "if it walks like a duck..."

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:01:00 UTC | #423319

bendigeidfran's Avatar Comment 18 by bendigeidfran

Pay that man seventy grand and free lunches while people starve. He's our moral beacon.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:08:00 UTC | #423323

GalacticAtom's Avatar Comment 19 by GalacticAtom

[The Government assumes religion] is a problem, it's an eccentricity, it's practiced by oddities, foreigners and minorities

Ummm, excuse me, Mr Archbishop. Have you seen the statistics for the numbers practising religion in the UK? Religious practitioners are a minority, and a small minority too! It is no longer "normal".

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:18:00 UTC | #423327

flying goose's Avatar Comment 20 by flying goose

I could see all this coming, but please, less of the welshman jibs.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:26:00 UTC | #423331

dankuck's Avatar Comment 21 by dankuck

Calling bureaucrats "ministers" is an oddity to me. I was raised thinking ministers were guys in suits who preach about Jesus (like Archbishops, but further down the totem pole, yet no less likely to cheat on their wives).

So when I read the title I was expecting a much different article.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:34:00 UTC | #423336

Follow Peter Egan's Avatar Comment 22 by Follow Peter Egan

Dear old Mad Melanie Phillips is ranting in support of the ABC in today's Mail. Apparently everything good, including science and reason, started because of our "Judeo-Christian heritage".

They sure don't like to undersell themselves, these religious nutjobs. Just a shame for them they're so divorced from reality.

Yes, you are a bunch of cranks, and dangerous cranks at that.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:36:00 UTC | #423337

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 23 by Stafford Gordon

His Grace does look a litle bit of an oddity in the picture does he not.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:51:00 UTC | #423345

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 24 by Tyler Durden

20. Comment #441890 by GalacticAtom

Have you seen the statistics for the numbers practising religion in the UK? Religious practitioners are a minority, and a small minority too! It is no longer "normal".
Ah yes, but you must not forget that Mr Archbishop can also quote from the silent majority whenever he likes. "One billion Christians worldwide" blah, blah, blah...

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:52:00 UTC | #423346

Mr. Davies's Avatar Comment 25 by Mr. Davies

@ Flying Goose:
"I could see all this coming, but please, less of the welshman jibs."

Agreed.

Rwy'n caru Cymru!

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:04:00 UTC | #423351

bendigeidfran's Avatar Comment 26 by bendigeidfran

Comment #441914 by Mr. Davies

On the subject of Welsh and beards, the Russian for beard is a homophone for the Welsh for Good morning.
Bore da.

I knew that would come in handy.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:12:00 UTC | #423355

nalfeshnee's Avatar Comment 27 by nalfeshnee

"Faith ... it's practised by oddities, foreigners and minorities."

Well, that sums it up nicely.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:26:00 UTC | #423364

Logicel's Avatar Comment 28 by Logicel

"the important role faith plays in shaping the values of millions of people in this country".
______

How does he know? Is it via the same kind of secret 'hotline' communication with which he shares with his deity?

Williams is talking about himself--he needs the motivation stemming from his religious beliefs in order to function. And he is extrapolating his own focus sloppily upon millions whom he does not actually know.

And if these millions do profess similar religious beliefs as his, what is stopping them from living their lives the way they want to? Oh, I see, they would not need leaders in fancy dress if they just got on with talking to their deity on their own time, giving them the motivation that apparently is required in order for them to get up in the morning.

He is habituated in thinking that he is an representative of a group of people. Not only is religion continuing to ebb from the mainstream, when it is courted, it is done so more in an personal, private manner. Sorry, Williams, you and your office are not necessary for religious beliefs to be held.

In addition, though religious believers can believe in whatever their little hearts desire, there is no ethical reason for such unfounded, non-evidential beliefs or resulting motivations be used as a foundation for tax-paid public policy. Ever.

Is going to soccer games abnormal? Is gardening like a fiend abnormal? Is puttering around old computers an oddity? No, they are not, they are pastimes, passions, interests. Religious beliefs are only odd and abnormal when they are dressed up as serious ideas worthy for consideration in the tax-paying realm.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:58:00 UTC | #423373

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 30 by Mr DArcy

"The effect is to de-normalise faith, to intensify the perception that faith is not part of our bloodstream. And, you know, in great swathes of the country that's how it is."


So it would seem that "great swathes of the country" have cottoned on to the fact that religion is indeed eccentricity practised by oddities. People aren't stupid in the main. Waiting for the one third of God ( the Jewish carpenter bit), to come back and again redeem humanity after 2000 years absence does indeed strike me as a bit odd. The politicians take the touchy feely approach, but as Campbell (Blair's press secretary) said "We don't do God". Nice to see Williams rattled by that.

Oh well, I suppose I'm headed for the "Lake of fire", promised by the same carpenter guy, whilst the elect are raptured off.

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:42:00 UTC | #423388

Dr. Strangegod's Avatar Comment 29 by Dr. Strangegod

Does this guy ever stop whining?

Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:42:00 UTC | #423387