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Unmarried couples caught in Malaysia hotel raids - Comments

Oromasdes1978's Avatar Comment 1 by Oromasdes1978

Yet again the sex obsessed (and no doubt sexually frustrated too) are trying to destroy what they do not understand and cannot cope with. Look at this behaviour- physically seeking people out so they can punish them for a crime so insane and meaningless in order to protect their perverted religion.


Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:06:00 UTC | #428771

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 2 by Stafford Gordon


I agree entirely; they just need to get their rocks off.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:12:00 UTC | #428773

Bala's Avatar Comment 3 by Bala

offence of close proximity

Reminds me of a science fiction movie.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:20:00 UTC | #428777

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 4 by hungarianelephant

And in unrelated news, the morality police also prosecuted someone for having a mobile phone with a faked video of a woman shagging a tiger.

No, wait, that was in Britain. Never mind.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:47:00 UTC | #428784

blakjack's Avatar Comment 5 by blakjack

Could someone name a religion that is NOT obsessed with some aspect of sex?

Catholics have celibate clergy.

Muslims have this “close proximity” rule (not to mention death for adultery in some instances)

Jews circumcise infant males who have no say in the matter

Most religions detest homosexuality to a greater or lesser degree.

Even Buddhism practices celibacy in monasteries and nunneries (but do they in fact permit homosexual activity?)

Of course many of these rules are routinely broken (OK, uncircumsision is a little difficult). That seems to point to rules that huge numbers of people consider to be totally unreasonable.

Thank goodness atheists aren’t obsessed with sex as an integral part of their philosophy. Sex is part of life and nothing about which to be ashamed. That is not to suggest that atheists have no views about the wisdom of unconstrained sex (there could, for example be a very good health reason why it’s not a good idea) but at least ideas about sexual conduct are by and large based on commonsense and are not decreed from “on high”.


Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:04:00 UTC | #428786

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 6 by mordacious1

So they targeted the budget hotels...the rich and powerful were safe in their 5 star lodgings.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:09:00 UTC | #428789

Rosbif's Avatar Comment 7 by Rosbif

Sharia laws in Malaysia apply only to Muslims, who make up over half the population.

So they can renounce Islam and not get prosecuted for "close proximity".

Oh, but they will be put to death for leaving Islam.
Oh well, looks like they'll have to admit to shagging.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:13:00 UTC | #428793

GodsDontExist's Avatar Comment 8 by GodsDontExist

"offence of close proximity"

I guess Adam and Eve were guilty of that, too.

Do Muslims ever consider when humans began to populate the earth and marriage hadn't been invented yet? I guess not. Good thing it was invented, so poor humans know that males and females should not ever hang out together.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:33:00 UTC | #428799

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 9 by Agrajag

3. Comment #447452 by seabala on January 5, 2010 at 3:20 pm

"...close proximity"

Isn't that best for horseshoes and handgrenades?

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:35:00 UTC | #428801

phasmagigas's Avatar Comment 10 by phasmagigas

Thanks goodness atheists aren’t obsessed with sex as an integral part of their philosophy

only as part of their natural biology!

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:46:00 UTC | #428810

dj357's Avatar Comment 11 by dj357

How bat-s**t crazy do you have to be to make it illegal under punishment of law for two consenting adults to gather in a secluded or confined space...£

This kind of nonsense is a perfect example of why no sane, rational person wants ANY part of Islam. Or any religion for that matter!

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:47:00 UTC | #428811

root2squared's Avatar Comment 12 by root2squared

How bat-s**t crazy do you have to be to make it illegal under punishment of law for two consenting adults to gather in a secluded or confined space...£

This is not confined to Islamic countries. Quite a few secular democratic countries make prostitution illegal.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:55:00 UTC | #428820

stptrck75's Avatar Comment 13 by stptrck75

When will people learn that you cannot regulate morality through the threat of public prosecution?

In fact, you cannot control the morality of others, full-stop.

Don't Muslims believe in free will? What about personal moral accountability?

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:10:00 UTC | #428827

Gaz's Avatar Comment 14 by Gaz

"Islamic morality" - now there's a contradiction in terms!

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:12:00 UTC | #428829

Rosbif's Avatar Comment 15 by Rosbif


This is not confined to Islamic countries. Quite a few secular democratic countries make prostitution illegal.

Where did prostitution come in to it?
Or are you suggesting that any woman having sex not with her husband is doing it for financial or personal gain?

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:15:00 UTC | #428830

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 16 by Border Collie

Why is it that the primary goal of religious zealots almost everywhere is to catch people with their britches down? I wish they'd dwell on something else for a few centuries.

And, my favorite ... "close proximity" as opposed to those transgressions that involve "far proximity".

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:29:00 UTC | #428841

UncleJJ's Avatar Comment 17 by UncleJJ

Whatever next, these crazy Malaysians are so sure this is a sin and yet they don't think Allah is powerful enough to punish the perpetrators, so they have to do it for him. They don't seem to have much faith in their beliefs, do they?

I suspect that it is just the dirty old mullahs who get a kick out of listening to salacious stories of what happened and then punishing young people who want to live their lives the way they want to. They just want to control other people's lives and tell them what they can do.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:33:00 UTC | #428844

root2squared's Avatar Comment 18 by root2squared

15. Comment #447505 by Rosbif on January 5, 2010 at 5:15 pm

My point was that prostitution is not morally any more wrong than unmarried people having sex and yet it is illegal even in quite a few secular democracies.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:45:00 UTC | #428848

black wolf's Avatar Comment 19 by black wolf

This isn't as primitive as we like to think. Well, it is, but we aren't far removed from the exact same primitive obsession in the West. Germany had practically the same law until about 1963, until when landlords were threatened with heavy fines for renting out rooms to unmarried couples, and of course similar punishment to the "proximitees" themselves.

As to blakjack's comment above (#5), I think Hitchens discussed this point, raising the interesting idea that this sex obsession of the religions is due to the fear that sex, as an uncomparably emotional high, is a direct competition to religious experience. The biochemical self-reward system seeks to repeat pleasurable experiences and favors the most rewarding ones. Allow people to shag often and with whoever consenting person they like in whatever ways means undermining the religious endeavor. Emotional ties and emotional blackmail of varying strength are central pillars of all religions I can think of. So, since even a dunce can understand that no shagging means no sheep, they restricted it to the bare minimum needed to replenish and maximize the herd while trying to keep the pleasurable aspects (in both quantity and quality) to a minimum.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:02:00 UTC | #428856

Don_Quix's Avatar Comment 20 by Don_Quix

The ultimate goal of all religions is to allow a privileged few to gain complete control over all aspects of the lives of the majority. Taken to its logical end religion becomes perfect totalitarianism, as illustrated in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four. Power for the sake of power.

One of the best ways to control people and to gain absolute power over them is to control their sex lives. By indoctrinating the populace to be ashamed of their own bodies and encouraging sexual frustration and hatred of themselves, the powerful few can channel that frustration and hatred towards any outside force they it another race, country, or religion.

Religion is a means to an end, and that end is absolute, eternal, inescapable tyranny.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:13:00 UTC | #428864

Rosbif's Avatar Comment 21 by Rosbif


Prostitution is illegal because of the conditions in which it is often practiced. Forced labour, slave labour and underage labour.

I accept that if a prostitute is absolutely happy and choses to have sex for money for no other reason than it beats sitting in an office, then I agree that morally it is no differnece than sleeping with someone unmarried. but as this is seldom the case, I think that the fact that prostitution is illegal in secular western societies is not a good parallel for intimidated imams to stop others having fun too.

This Islamic law also assumes a sexual act (and therefore guilt) by proximity. If that were true, I would have had a lot more sex than I have had.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:19:00 UTC | #428871

jeroen's Avatar Comment 22 by jeroen

I lived in Malaysia for a while and was astounded by the blatant religion-based racism applied to various groups of people.
Muslims are the majority, yet have far-going protectionist laws to get them ahead of the Indians and Chinese (who were economically better off in the 1960s when that policy started) - better chances of getting into Uni, starting a business, better rates for buying a car, house etc.
Sharia is only applied to the muslims, who are of course forbidden to question or change their religion. So, while I lived there there was the scandal of the woman who was in court for trying to become catholic, for young couples being arrested at the Petronas Towers mall for holding hands and kissing, the opposition leader who was in jail because his political rivals accused him of being gay, etc etc. Went to a rock concert (sponsored by Heineken, but with no beer for sale) and on the tickets it was specified that muslims were not allowed to attend (though some girls with headscarves did manage to get in).
All very backward and insulting to the Malaysians, who deserve better.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:25:00 UTC | #428873

root2squared's Avatar Comment 23 by root2squared

21. Comment #447547 by Rosbif on January 5, 2010 at 6:19 pm

Actually, it is the other way round. In countries where it has been legalized, it is regulated by the government. This greatly reduces exploitation of women, the chances of forced sexual labour and the spread of sexual diseases. On the other hand, where it is illegal, the women forced to engage in it have no recourse to justice or law.

Of course, this is not meant to justify anything these crazy Imams do. I just wanted to point out a related fact.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:39:00 UTC | #428886

Don_Quix's Avatar Comment 24 by Don_Quix

A nice analysis of the politics of sexuality in fictional totalitarian regimes. It also applies nicely to religions, particularly Abrahamic religions:

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:42:00 UTC | #428889

jcob82's Avatar Comment 25 by jcob82

Doesn't the Malaysian government have something more important to worry about? I liked how they went after the students and factory workers and not the wealthy. It appears Malaysia is more capitalist than I thought. That religions like Islam can thrive in the 21st century is unfathomable.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:43:00 UTC | #428892

InYourFaceNewYorker's Avatar Comment 26 by InYourFaceNewYorker

These people are upset because now they won't know whose genes are being passed on and whose aren't! ;)

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:48:00 UTC | #428895

Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 27 by Cook@Tahiti

Westerners still make their women cover up their chests while in public, so while the degree is different, the principle is similar.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:01:00 UTC | #428909

Rodger T's Avatar Comment 28 by Rodger T

Dear O dear,

the offence of close proximity

How on earth do the morality nazis deal with public transport in that backward state?

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:13:00 UTC | #428917

Nastasie's Avatar Comment 29 by Nastasie

Oh, ffs. Don't they have actual crime in Malaysia? As in, you know, robbery, murder, assault? Doesn't the government have more important things to spend money on?

This is one of the things that drive me crazy when it comes to these religious 'morality crusades'. Like churches in the US spending millions to stop gays from getting married. What about the poor? Isn't that a Christian doctrine, to help the poor?

@ black wolf:

I think Hitchens may be on to something there, but I'd like to hear more thoughts on that. I haven't been able to make sense of this obsession with sex yet.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:31:00 UTC | #428929

glenister_m's Avatar Comment 30 by glenister_m

I still find it amusing that there are fraternity houses at the University of British Columbia, but not sorority houses. The reason being was that at the time the fraternity houses were first built, there was a law that essentially said that any house in Vancouver with several unrelated females living there was considered a brothel. Of course that law is no more.

I think Eric Idle's comment on religion and sex seems fitting. "The Missionary Position - to prevent sex the couple slept with a missionary between them. This didn't always work for the couple, but it always worked for the missionary."

I often suggest to high school students that they should find a career that they are good at and enjoy doing. Fortunately no one has asked about prostitution or adult film roles, as my own advice makes a counter-argument difficult.

Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:48:00 UTC | #428947