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← Lowering age of first Holy Communion?

Lowering age of first Holy Communion? - Comments

-TheCodeCrack-'s Avatar Comment 1 by -TheCodeCrack-

"Get em while they're young". Priest's motto. lol.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:43:57 UTC | #501688

Narvi's Avatar Comment 2 by Narvi

Catholic priests are getting children handed to them on a plate, and send them back with a "A bit younger, please".

Sounds like something out of a Monty Python sketch.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:25:22 UTC | #501705

El Bastardo's Avatar Comment 3 by El Bastardo

The idea that "the child reaches “the age of reason”, generally accepted to be about seven years of age," is scary.

Reasonable! 7 year olds? Really?!?

Reading the article and the comments just shows how seriously some take this nonsense. To think that giving a child a cracker " is like the beginning of a journey with Jesus, in communion with him: the beginning of a friendship destined to last and to grow for his entire life,”

How can anyone be so stupid and yet still function as a human being?

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:25:42 UTC | #501706

Humperding's Avatar Comment 4 by Humperding

Yes, get them while they are young...

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:52:52 UTC | #501718

Degsy's Avatar Comment 5 by Degsy

I don't know who this particular cardinal is but I find his thinking absolutely bizarre. Religion is something that still baffles adults to points of divergence so wide of any original mark, that to suggest a child of seven can make sense of any of it is unconscionable garbage. This just sickens me.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:02:11 UTC | #501723

Oromasdes1978's Avatar Comment 6 by Oromasdes1978

Yet again the Vatican is fighting for the right to interfere with and brainwash more children into the cult - these people are so arrogant and despicable it sickens me.

Today, he said, “children live immersed in a thousand difficulties,surrounded by a difficult environment that does not encourage them to be what God wants them to be”.

Oh sure, a sexually repressed fear spreading ignoramus knows what children need in life does he?

You would think a thousand difficulties is enough of a subtle hint to the kids that there is something profoundly wrong with this God deity if he can't spread a simple message!

Updated: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:14:30 UTC | #501727

Knut Bonan's Avatar Comment 7 by Knut Bonan

I actually consider this an improvement. Clearly catholic priests are now focusing on putting things in childrens' mouths rather than their bottoms.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:19:42 UTC | #501730

Tiberius9's Avatar Comment 8 by Tiberius9

"Get them while they are young" also works well for drug dealers and cigarette companies.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:27:16 UTC | #501734

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 9 by SaganTheCat

Should I bother reading the whole article?

Kids of 7 are too old now are they? too mature? too smart maybe?

stop trying to make people believe such crap and you won't have to constantly lower the admission age. how long before "the age of reason" is measured by the age they learn to speak for themselves?

naturally there are plenty of other analogies that sprung to mind but I see other contributers have required little encouragement!

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:30:11 UTC | #501736

Logicel's Avatar Comment 10 by Logicel

The gift of god? It is a cracker, you Catholic ninnies! It is not god.

You know what you are giving these kids instead? Fear (that they need something supernatural in order to cope with life, anxiety (that they need something supernatural in order to cope with life), hopelessness (that they need something supernatural in order to cope with life, isolation (that they need something supernatural in order to cope with life), and on and on and on. Your 'gifts' are poison.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:39:55 UTC | #501738

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 11 by Richard Dawkins

"Get them while they are young" also works well for drug dealers and cigarette companies.

He gives the kids free samples,

Because he knows full well

That today's young innocent faces

Will be tomorrow's clientele.

                                  Tom Lehrer (The Old Dope Pedlar)

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:26:02 UTC | #501750

Oromasdes1978's Avatar Comment 12 by Oromasdes1978

Richard - is that what they are putting in communal wafers these days? It would explain a lot of the stupidity and dress wearing for sure!

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:51:16 UTC | #501759

cheesedoff17's Avatar Comment 13 by cheesedoff17

They don't seem to realise that it would be wiser for them to just keep quiet at the moment. That all talk of children, and what the clergy wants to do with them, would be better put on hold for a few years. There again, while we have a situation where an impotent old man, who has never slept with a woman in his life, never fathered a child nor saved one from a paedophile, is considered, by Kings, Queens & Politicians world wide, as some sort of Authority on family matters, we will continue to hear the utter nonsense that issues from the mouths of these old nincompoops.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:02:35 UTC | #501762

opposablethumbs's Avatar Comment 14 by opposablethumbs

Slightly OT, but when all this RE (religious effluent) gets too much to bear recommendations include listening to Lehrer's National Brotherhood Week and Vatican Rag. Both (among others) are up on youtube (see http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22tom+lehrer%22&aq=f ) for our delight.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:09:41 UTC | #501767

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 15 by Stafford Gordon

I believe I'm right in saying that the classic or historical phrase is "Give us a child by seven and we'll give you the man."

S G

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:22:01 UTC | #501776

CleverCarbon's Avatar Comment 16 by CleverCarbon

Children today are maturing so quickly that it might be time to consider allowing them to receive their first Catholic Penis even before their seventh birthdays, the head of the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments has said.

I think we all know that this is what he meant by "Holy Communion"

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:24:00 UTC | #501777

foundationist's Avatar Comment 17 by foundationist

Today, he said, “children live immersed in a thousand difficulties, surrounded by a difficult environment that does not encourage them to be what God wants them to be”.

Devastatingly honest confession. Translates as "We are loosing our hold on the kids due to worldly influences in their lifes. We must get them still younger."

The late pope pointed out that the ancient tradition of the Church, still kept by many of the Eastern Catholic churches, was to give babies Communion immediately after their baptism. The practice died out in the West, largely because of concerns that the baby would spit out the consecrated bread and wine.

That's the catholic mindset for you. Its not about whether it is a good idea to give bread and wine to a suckling, its about whether it might be harmful for the bread and wine.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:35:38 UTC | #501785

Corona Dave's Avatar Comment 18 by Corona Dave

Effect On Abortion

This will likely have relevance to abortions.

There was a case not so long ago of a girl in south America who was raped by a family member from 9 to 12. When she was 12 she got pregnant and had an abortion to save her life.

Because she was under 13 and below "the age of reason" she was not excommunicated to Hell herself, but her mother was in place of her as well as the doctor who saved her life.

Of course the Catholic church didn't consider excommunicating the paedophile rapist. The Church couldn't survive if it went down that path.

But a few more raped 12 year old girls burning in Hell for wanting to live is probably considered a bonus by Catholic authorities.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:21:29 UTC | #501812

Slugsie's Avatar Comment 19 by Slugsie

Where is his evidence that children are maturing earlier? If it's because catholic children are engaging in sex earlier then I think we all know the root cause there. But otherwise I want to see his sources first.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:33:40 UTC | #501817

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 20 by Agrajag

@Comment 16 by AdamSplitter:

I am the human coffee atomizer, thanks to you. :lol:

The references to Tom Lehrer are appreciated. I've been listening to his wonderful, cynical, accurate lyrics for many (can it be 40 or more?) years. He has an uncanny ability to nail an issue and make you laugh at the same time.

Steve

Updated: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:42:20 UTC | #501819

zengardener's Avatar Comment 21 by zengardener

A good indicator that a child has developed his/her critical thinking skills is if they refuse to believe in magical crackers.

They shouldn't be offered communion until they are wise enough to know that it is bunk.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:43:07 UTC | #501822

keddaw's Avatar Comment 22 by keddaw

Would all you bad people please leave the child-raping, cannibalistic, zombie-worshipping death-cult alone?

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:45:33 UTC | #501824

Ygern's Avatar Comment 23 by Ygern

The irony in this is especially rich when you realise that should that child decide to want to leave the church, neither child nor its parents will be able to achieve it until the age of 18 where the church feels they are old enough to understand the decision they are making.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:30:01 UTC | #501840

DPRC's Avatar Comment 24 by DPRC

I am bringing up my two children as Catholics. At church and at home, they learn about dignity, tolerance and love exemplified through the life of Jesus Christ. I pray that, as they grow, they will challenge and question my beliefs and find a path through life that is truly rewarding. In this context, Holy Communion isn’t a “magical cracker” or tool of conformity but an expression of Christ’s love for us.

I know from my own experience that some Church leaders have manipulated and abused others for their own selfish ends. This is entirely incompatible with the Christian message and I applaud those inside the Church and outside it who expose such hypocrisy. However, for such criticism to have an effect, the critics need to demonstrate an understanding of what they’re attacking. I worry that some of the anger and hatred expressed on this blog will only serve to undermine the valid points that need to be made.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:32:02 UTC | #501843

steve oberski's Avatar Comment 25 by steve oberski

Comment 24 by DPRC

I am bringing up my two children as Catholics

By your behaviour your are complicit in the institutional rape of children by the pedophile clergy and the cover up by the rcc.

You allow these predators unfettered access to children by your blind acceptance of dogma and what you are doing to your children is no different from what your pedophile clergy does to other children,

Shame on you.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:50:41 UTC | #501850

DPRC's Avatar Comment 26 by DPRC

Comment 18 by Corona Dave :

There was a case not so long ago of a girl in south America who was raped by a family member from 9 to 12. When she was 12 she got pregnant and had an abortion to save her life.

Because she was under 13 and below "the age of reason" she was not excommunicated to Hell herself, but her mother was in place of her as well as the doctor who saved her life.

This is not in line with the teaching of the Catholic Church. An abortion to save the life of a mother is not seen as a sin.

The Catholic Church does not “excommunicate to Hell” – excommunication is an exclusion from Church sacraments imposed (very rarely) on someone who fundamentally disagrees with Church teaching.

Finally - and it’s worrying that I have to write this – the Catholic Church does not send (or claim to send) people to Hell!

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:52:30 UTC | #501852

EvN's Avatar Comment 27 by EvN

@ DPRC

I know from my own experience that some Church leaders have manipulated and abused others for their own selfish ends. This is entirely incompatible with the Christian message and I applaud those inside the Church and outside it who expose such hypocrisy. However, for such criticism to have an effect, the critics need to demonstrate an understanding of what they’re attacking.

Jip. We do have an understanding of what we are attacking. It includes the manipulation and abuse you mention. Or do you think that one must, perforce, be a member of the RCC to understand abuse, manipulation and selfishness?

This is not in line with the teaching of the Catholic Church. An abortion to save the life of a mother is not seen as a sin.

Well, well. Have a look at what the RCC in Phoenix are doing. Really off the straight and narrow, are they?

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:04:09 UTC | #501855

foundationist's Avatar Comment 28 by foundationist

@DPRC

I am bringing up my two children as Catholics. At church and at home, they learn about dignity, tolerance and love exemplified through the life of Jesus Christ.

It is a good thing to teach children about dignity, tolerance and love, and for these things you could find far worse teachers than Jesus, who certainly was in many respects an exemplary person, especially considering the historical and social context in which he lived. It certainly took a genius to come up with 'love thy enemy' in an era where public crucifixions were considered a display of justice.

What however does this have to do with raising your children as Catholics? Catholicism is an ancient set of dogmas that include obvious horseshit like the infallibility of the pope, the sinfulness of any same sex relationship or premarital sex, that second marriages are an abomination onto the lord etc.

Just teach your children love and dignity and tolerance. You can tell stories from the life of Jesus and other moral teachers to do so, but leave out the metaphysics that are way beyond your childrens grasp. And don't tell them that they are Catholics. I was raised as a Catholic. I had no idea what that meant, but I knew I was a Catholic, unlike the Protestant kids in our town. Nobody ever told me (or the Protestant kids for that matter) about Martin Luther and the trade in indulgence. About Luthers theses and the schism. I wouldn't have understood any of it. Nevertheless I was a Catholic.

Leave the supernatural questions until your children start asking them. Then you can tell them that there are some who believe this and that and others who believe so and so. Just never tell them (as I was told) "We Catholics believe that..." because that is indoctrination, plain and simple.

And please please please never start telling them about hell. My parents were moderates and never told me about hell, but as a Catholic I still learned of the concept somehow and it really frightened me. Nobody in my family denounced it as the evil nonsense it is. For the vivid imagination of a child the concept of hell is a truly terrible thing. I can only imagine the horrors endured by the children who are attacked by this evil nonsense with full force.

I worry that some of the anger and hatred expressed on this blog will only serve to undermine the valid points that need to be made.

I too have sometimes found the tone here a little rougher than it ought to be, but for an internet forum it is actually pretty mild going. And considering a lot of the real evil that the RCC commits, like its stance on condoms and same-sex relations hard words are certainly justified.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:11:07 UTC | #501860

DPRC's Avatar Comment 29 by DPRC

Comment 25 by steve oberski :

Comment 24 by DPRC

I am bringing up my two children as

Catholics

By your behaviour your are complicit in the institutional rape of children by the pedophile clergy and the cover up by the rcc.

You allow these predators unfettered access to children by your blind acceptance of dogma and what you are doing to your children is no different from what your pedophile clergy does to other children,

Shame on you.

I suspect that you’re trying to provoke a reaction!

However, just in case you’re serious, I entirely agree that priests (along with doctors, policemen and others) should not be blindly trusted or followed. In fact, Jesus himself made this point a number of times when he publicly criticised the Pharisees.

On a practical level, as a result of the abuse perpetuated by some Catholic clergy:

  1. Any person within a parish (including the priest) who works with children is obliged to have a Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) check.
  2. No adult can be left alone with a child without a chaperone.
  3. Each parish must have an independent “Safeguarding” representative to ensure that these rules are adhered to and any complaints are properly reported and investigated.

All of this, combined with the sensible precautions I take on behalf of my children with any person in authority, means that I am able to benefit from my faith without the complicity you refer to.

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:12:51 UTC | #501861

jpgj's Avatar Comment 30 by jpgj

The cardinal said he wanted to use the anniversary of St. Pius’ decree to remind pastors that children should receive first Communion when they have “the use of reason, which today seems to be even sooner” than age seven.

Gee, I hate to sound cynical, but could the real problem be that today's 10 to 12 year-olds are just too smart to go along with the holy nonsense and drop out before wafer time?

Think of the wafer market!! It's a major source of revenue for some nunneries! How sad they should go bankrupt!

Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:19:56 UTC | #501862