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← Sikh judge Sir Mota Singh criticises banning of Kirpan

Sikh judge Sir Mota Singh criticises banning of Kirpan - Comments

Jiten's Avatar Comment 1 by Jiten

I'm sure the Kirpan wouldn't be allowed through airport security, so why should it be allowed through school security?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:34:00 UTC | #439628

beeline's Avatar Comment 2 by beeline

Perhaps if school was a religiously ceremonial occasion rather than, oh I don't know, a place to learn, that might be appropriate.

Presumably he'd be happy to let a 'terrorist martyr' wear explosives in his courtroom, would he?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:37:00 UTC | #439629

tieInterceptor's Avatar Comment 3 by tieInterceptor

dear Mr Judge,

it's a blade, in a school... enough said.

ps; thank goodness you are retired.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:40:00 UTC | #439631

MattHunX's Avatar Comment 4 by MattHunX

Okay, let 'em wear their Kirpan, but then don't be surprised if someone gets stabbed the first day.

Sir Mota Singh QC *stab*

Sir? Why? What did he do?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:41:00 UTC | #439632

paulifa1's Avatar Comment 5 by paulifa1

Just how naive are you Judge Singh? Even if the boy in question is impeccably behaved and would never consider unsheathing his dagger, he's in a school full of adolescents, some of whom are probably much less disiplined and would be happy to remove his knife from him and possibly do harm with it. At the school I went to, it's a fact it would have been removed, it's a sitting target for adolescent horseplay...

How does one get to be a Judge with such little common sense?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:41:00 UTC | #439633

Evil_Si's Avatar Comment 6 by Evil_Si

This is fine, as long as a child of no religion is allowed to wear a dagger to school as well.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:45:00 UTC | #439634

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 7 by irate_atheist

What a 'tard.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:51:00 UTC | #439635

justinesaracen's Avatar Comment 8 by justinesaracen

Here is where 'multiculturalism' begins to creep over the line. Europe labored for centuries to claw its way out of the grip of religion toward secularism and now religion is creeping back in again. If the Sikh dagger is allowed, all other religious paraphernalia would have to be allowed as well, including the burka. I'm with France on this one. There should be secular public 'safe space' where the voodoo gadgets have to be left outside.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:54:00 UTC | #439636

gos's Avatar Comment 9 by gos

The Compton School offered the boy the option of wearing a smaller knife, welded into a metal sheath, but his parents refused and withdrew him


Reasonable compromise. Seems the school is certainly doing its part to reach an accommodation.

"The fact that I'm a Sikh matters more to me than anything else," he said.


This should disbar him from being a judge, period.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:12:00 UTC | #439640

Peacebeuponme's Avatar Comment 10 by Peacebeuponme

I think ceremonial kirpans are pretty blunt, but that's not really the point. Either blunt daggers are allowed for all pupils, or none.

This should disbar him from being a judge, period.
What should absolutely disbar him is this comment:

"The fact that I'm a Sikh matters more to me than anything else"

That is the most shocking thing about the article for me. How is he supposed to judge objectively with that outlook?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:20:00 UTC | #439643

flying goose's Avatar Comment 11 by flying goose

Knives, no they are dangerous, even if the carrier does not use, I am sure 99.9999999.% would not, even so, it can still be stolen. It is health and safety issue, full stop.

Bangles, why not, uniform is always subverted by adolecents. Ant thing that helps I say. It's not dangerous.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:23:00 UTC | #439644

JackR's Avatar Comment 12 by JackR

Ridiculous. There should be no religious exemptions from the law or from the rules of public places. At all. NONE. I still find it utterly outrageous that British Sikhs are exempted from the crash helmet law. All special religious privilege should be wiped out. No exceptions.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:28:00 UTC | #439646

mmurray's Avatar Comment 13 by mmurray

A quick google suggests that Sikhs getting on planes usually put their kirpan in the luggage or, if they forget it, sometimes the crew will hold it. Perhaps it is time they made it a bit more symbolic and welded the case and the blade together.

Some things about this religion are an improvement over the Abrahamic ones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_primary_beliefs_and_principles


2) Equality
All human beings are equal
People of all religions and races are welcome in Sikh Gurdwaras
Women have equal status with men in religious services and ceremonies

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:30:00 UTC | #439647

gcdavis's Avatar Comment 14 by gcdavis

They just don’t get it! Cherrie Blair and now this idiot.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:32:00 UTC | #439648

Jay Cee's Avatar Comment 15 by Jay Cee

Everyone wears a dagger with traditional scottish dress so why should Sikhs be banned from wearing theirs?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:39:00 UTC | #439649

mmurray's Avatar Comment 17 by mmurray

Everyone wears a dagger with traditional scottish dress so why should Sikhs be banned from wearing theirs?


I was wondering about that. Can Scottish kids wear a sgian dubh to school ? It looks like a serious weapon.

What about fremen kids who are carrying crysknives?

Michael

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:44:00 UTC | #439651

flying goose's Avatar Comment 16 by flying goose

JamCam

Good point, the Scots should be stopped too.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:44:00 UTC | #439650

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 18 by irate_atheist

15. Comment #459321 by JAMCAM87 -

Everyone wears a dagger with traditional scottish dress so why should Sikhs be banned from wearing theirs?
Everyone?

Everyone?

Bit of a sweeping statement I should say.

Not to mention a tu quoque fallacy.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:47:00 UTC | #439652

RichardofYork's Avatar Comment 19 by RichardofYork

I don't mind at all , just as long as my son can wear his ceremonial Barrett 50 calibre sniper rifle

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:51:00 UTC | #439654

oasis-al-reason's Avatar Comment 20 by oasis-al-reason

*sighs* it's sikh. just sikh. *sighs* again.

(probably) explains some judgments by some other judges that the rest of us normal folk can see as plain barmy.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:55:00 UTC | #439655

Barry Pearson's Avatar Comment 21 by Barry Pearson

#459319 by mmurray:
Some things about this religion are an improvement over the Abrahamic ones
True, but some of them let down their community here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezhti

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:58:00 UTC | #439656

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 22 by Jos Gibbons

What is really bizarre is that, while when I first saw this article a few hours ago you could leave a comment, now you cannot, nor are any comments people did make when you could visible. I sent a comment pointing out that the only discrimination here, in the sense of wanting to give some people privileges others don't get, is that of Singh himself. After all, the one thing on which everyone in the debate Taneja's article covers agree is that non-Sikhs mustn't carry daggers. You either believe in equality for Sikhs in that regard, or in Sikh supremacy. I can't remember my exact words; maybe I should have copied them somewhere before posting. It probably wouldn't have been published anyway; the Beeb has no integrity in covering religion.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:00:00 UTC | #439657

Paula Kirby's Avatar Comment 23 by Paula Kirby

I heard this man interviewed on the Today programme this morning (you can listen to the interview here, if you're in the UK - http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8503000/8503549.stm). He said he fully understood the school's position on Health & Safety and accepted it was a dilemma, and claimed he just wanted a balance to be found between religious requirements and Health & Safety concerns. When he was probed about what this balance might be, though, it became clear that he thought it meant ignoring the Health & Safety concerns and just privileging the religious requirements instead. Surprise, surprise.

I very much like mmurray's suggestion in comment 13 above. If the dagger is purely symbolic (which I am perfectly willing to believe), then what is the problem in making it explicitly so? It could be made of plastic or, as mmurray suggests, firmly welded inside its sheath so it cannot be removed.

We cannot have daggers in schools. That is perfectly obvious. But yet again we have a religion expecting to be exempt from rules that apply to everyone else, and then whingeing about being discriminated against when the rest of us quite rightly say NO. There has to be one law for all.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:03:00 UTC | #439658

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 24 by hungarianelephant

23. Comment #459330 by Paula Kirby

He said he fully understood the school's position on Health & Safety and ...

Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you there.

Health & Safety? We're trying to deal with knives as a Health & Safety issue? Have we gone completely fucking mad?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:11:00 UTC | #439661

flying goose's Avatar Comment 25 by flying goose

People used to bring flick knives and air pistols in to my school and it wasn't even that rough.

Well my B band class was.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:21:00 UTC | #439663

Logicel's Avatar Comment 26 by Logicel

mmurray: What about fremen kids who are carrying crysknives?
_____

Not to mention their breathing thingabob and recycling-water-from-pee-and-sweat skin suits.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:23:00 UTC | #439664

Peacebeuponme's Avatar Comment 27 by Peacebeuponme

Paula

he just wanted a balance to be found between religious requirements and Health & Safety concerns...But yet again we have a religion expecting to be exempt from rules that apply to everyone else, and then whingeing about being discriminated against when the rest of us quite rightly say NO. There has to be one law for all.
If I were president of the world of course things would be a lot simpler.

All you need to resolve this is to have adults of all stripes sit down and answer the question "what should we allow children to have in school, and what should we not allow?" There is no need to mention religion at all. At that time we can agree whether or not we think it is ok for children to carry blunt knives around. Whether they wear a turban or not is irrelevant in answering the question.

Any Sikh who wishes for special privileges for Sikhs only is shown up for obvious discrimination. If I was a parent of a child in a school that allowed the kirpan for a sikh child, my child would also carry one. If everyone did this, common-sense would hopefully prevail.

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:24:00 UTC | #439665

andyb001's Avatar Comment 28 by andyb001

Given that the knife is a symbol, why not replace it with a plastic replica symbol?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:25:00 UTC | #439666

ColdFusionLazarus's Avatar Comment 30 by ColdFusionLazarus

How do these people manage to fly on an aeroplane? Aren't knives banned there too?

Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:38:00 UTC | #439670