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← Utah: Making miscarriages a crime?

Utah: Making miscarriages a crime? - Comments

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 1 by Ignorant Amos

These people know no bounds....just when I thought I'd heard it all, some new fuckwittery appears.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:05:00 UTC | #444831

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 2 by Ignorant Amos

Surely it is barbaric that this women was driven to pay for a hammering to "abort" her pregnancy. Where are we living? Some dark age middle eastern theocracy or the beacon of democratic freedom in the west?

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:12:00 UTC | #444834

black wolf's Avatar Comment 3 by black wolf

Perhaps the next logical step is a law that mandates impregnation of the wife within four months of marriage. Should this not be successful, the marriage is cancelled. Additionally, the couple must prove that they carried out a certain number of attempts. Should they fail to do so, both get charged with prevention of pregnancy, punishable by life in prison.

Sounds fair?

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:15:00 UTC | #444835

sundiver's Avatar Comment 4 by sundiver

One thing about this stupid law, a woman with cancer who elects to undergo chemotherapy could be charged with comitting a " reckless " act should she miscarry as a result. Always thought of Utah as a bunch of stupid twats, now the morons have to go and prove it to the world.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:20:00 UTC | #444840

DanDare's Avatar Comment 5 by DanDare

I thought abortion was legal all over the US? Roe v Wade and all that. Am I completely wrong?

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:22:00 UTC | #444841

Alternative Carpark's Avatar Comment 6 by Alternative Carpark

Ask them to secede.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:28:00 UTC | #444842

gumby gumby's Avatar Comment 7 by gumby gumby

That's ridiculous!

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:42:00 UTC | #444843

Ron Millam's Avatar Comment 8 by Ron Millam

. Comment #464723 by DanDare on February 28, 2010 at 3:22 pm
I thought abortion was legal all over the US? Roe v Wade and all that. Am I completely wrong?

In Utah, "legal" abortions are legal are, of course, legal -- but "illegal" abortions are not. All clear now?

IMO, the Utah legislature's true fear is that a $150.00 transaction took place and the LDS church didn't get its cut.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:44:00 UTC | #444844

pipsy's Avatar Comment 9 by pipsy

Why did she have to resort to this in the first place?

Derranged, deluded, diabolical despots.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:12:00 UTC | #444853

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 10 by aquilacane

Life? Surely it would be manslaughter at best and that doesn't get life.

EDIT:
Everything a women does is reckless when pregnant. 25% miscarriage from normal everyday life. Walking and having a bath are reckless, depending on how you look at it.
EDIT/EDIT:
I don't mean I believe it is manslaughter, I mean even in their crazy world they would have to prove she intended to have a miscarriage as an act of murder

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:00 UTC | #444854

robotaholic's Avatar Comment 11 by robotaholic

Who cares how she did it? It's her body and she can do anything she wants to with it & to it. Sure, there are other means...but based on what Utah is trying to pass, it looks like it may have been more difficult than it should have been to get a "legal" abortion in that state.
It looks to me like Utah is being run by people who should have existed in the 17th century.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:22:00 UTC | #444857

Nekura's Avatar Comment 12 by Nekura

Perhaps the next logical step is a law that mandates impregnation of the wife within four months of marriage. Should this not be successful, the marriage is cancelled. Additionally, the couple must prove that they carried out a certain number of attempts. Should they fail to do so, both get charged with prevention of pregnancy, punishable by life in prison.

Sounds fair?


Totally!

According to some, the only purpose of marriage is the perpetuation of the race, so any marriage that can not or will not produce a child must be a sin. By that logic, any marriage that doesn't have a child within a year is obviously going to destroy family values everywhere! The immorality of DINKs must be outlawed immediately, and strip them of all their social benefits! Quick, print up a bunch of "GOD HATES LOVE" protest signs!! We must protect the un-existed children!

[/scarcasm]

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:50:00 UTC | #444863

BlueCollar8theist's Avatar Comment 13 by BlueCollar8theist

I have long referred to this state, to be deliberately offensive, as 'Soviet Utah.' After spending as much time as I have in that backwards, primitive dump of a state, I am not suprised by anything they say, do or believe. This time, it looks like they have truly earned my pet nickname.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:50:00 UTC | #444864

Squigit's Avatar Comment 14 by Squigit

Does anyone have a link to the story about the poor woman who resorted to paying a man to beat her to induce a miscarriage? I think that's the real crime here.

EDIT: Found one: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13651599

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:05:00 UTC | #444869

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 15 by Ignorant Amos

14. Comment #464754 by Squigit

Thanks for the link.

The 17 year old cretin that carried out the assault is a dickhead to be sure, but life if the appeal by the states attorney is successful is a bit steep....especially when the girl soliciting walks free. I'm wondering how anyone else knew what went on in the basement if there was only the two of them there!

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:16:00 UTC | #444884

huzonfurst's Avatar Comment 16 by huzonfurst

It's time we invaded Utah and made it part of the United States again.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:20:00 UTC | #444885

jcob82's Avatar Comment 17 by jcob82

I suppose when a woman goes through the trauma of having a miscarriage the murder charge will help take her mind off her loss. By the way this is from a state that was considering getting rid of 12th grade to save money. I think they should fire all their legislators as a way to save money.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:26:00 UTC | #444887

sonnygll's Avatar Comment 18 by sonnygll

I saw this last night, in a a video by TheAmazingAtheist. I thought TJ was just joking at first. Then I checked the link. I was absolutely stunned. I don't even know what to say. I guess you should move if you happen to be a fertile female..... wow....

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:44:00 UTC | #444894

Goodwithwood's Avatar Comment 19 by Goodwithwood

We want Huntsman back. Dammed Obama sent him to China.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:03:00 UTC | #444906

InYourFaceNewYorker's Avatar Comment 20 by InYourFaceNewYorker

This is one step away from my "Menstruation Ban Trilogy" (http://inyourfacenewyorker.blogspot.com)

Julie

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:53:00 UTC | #444960

ChicagoMolly's Avatar Comment 21 by ChicagoMolly

BlueCollar8theist: "I have long referred to this state, to be deliberately offensive, as 'Soviet Utah.'"

Remember what it was like in communist Romania under the glorious pro-lifer Nicolae Ceausescu? He had a special branch of the secret police which investigated married women of childbearing age who -- well -- weren't bearing enough children to keep Romania strong. They and their doctors could be arrested and imprisoned for using contraceptives, and if there were any evidence of an abortion, ... you don't even want to think about the consequences.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:25:00 UTC | #444990

theolgit's Avatar Comment 22 by theolgit

You couldn't make it up, could you? Utah must be run by total morons.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:22:00 UTC | #445051

TIKI AL's Avatar Comment 23 by TIKI AL

Have the Mormons forgot how well trying to form a theocracy worked for them in Illinois?

"In March 1844, Smith was said by William Law to have organized a secret council of the church called the "Council of the Kingdom". Practices of this council included acclaiming Joseph Smith as "Prophet, Priest, and King" in addition to polygamy. These secrets were threatened to be released in a newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor. Smith, acting in his capacity as mayor and head of the municipal court, responded by having the newspaper declared a "public nuisance" and by ordering the destruction of the press.

[edit] Death of Joseph Smith
Main article: Death of Joseph Smith, Jr.
Whenever Latter Day Saints gathered in large numbers, they met with opposition from neighbors who suspected that Mormon bloc-voting would lead to theocracy. By the mid-1840s, many non-Mormons in Hancock County felt threatened by growing Mormon political power and retributive violence of some Saints. Smith's destruction of the Expositor exacerbated these fears and non-Mormons throughout Illinois began to clamor for his arrest. When Smith submitted to imprisonment in the county seat of Carthage, the Governor of Illinois, Thomas Ford, left the jail, taking the only impartial local militia unit with him. With the jail being guarded only by two guards and a unit of anti-Mormon militiamen, the Carthage Greys, a mob of disbanded militia units attacked without resistance, killing Joseph and his brother Hyrum.

All men who were tried for the murders were acquitted after the prosecuting attorney dismissed the testimonies of the state's witnesses suddenly in his closing remarks [2](wiki)

They got kicked out of several states until finding one with no settlers in it to piss off.
I just wish they would stop ringing my doorbell.

Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:37:00 UTC | #445086

Alyson Miers's Avatar Comment 24 by Alyson Miers

As frightening as this is, it shouldn't really be a surprise. If abortion at any stage of pregnancy is illegal, then any woman who suffers a miscarriage can potentially be treated like a criminal. After all, an illegally induced abortion can end up looking a lot like a natural miscarriage, and in an environment where women are not trusted to make decisions, they will come under more suspicion than is warranted. Utah is just cutting out the middleman here.

I thought abortion was legal all over the US? Roe v Wade and all that. Am I completely wrong?


They are legal, technically, within the first trimester, but actually procuring a legal abortion procedure can be an ordeal in some areas. Furthermore, a legal procedure can be prohibitively expensive and some women can't get the money together on time. In the case of the girl who paid the guy to beat her, she was 7 months along, which is entirely too far for a routine legal abortion. Her boyfriend had threatened to break up with her if she didn't terminate the pregnancy, which suggests that she actually wanted the baby but, let's face it, her life was too fucked up to let her keep it.

Which is absolutely not a good reason why the girl should not be charged for soliciting the beating. If the law says the boy committed a crime in attempting to kill the fetus, then the same law should hold the girl responsible to at least the same extent. She was the one who made the decision to kill that fetus. It's infantilizing to treat her like the crime was not hers.

http://alysonmiers.wordpress.com/

Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:02:00 UTC | #445100

Aquaria's Avatar Comment 25 by Aquaria

Gee, thanks. Like this is supposed to make me feel better about living in Texas, huh?

Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:19:00 UTC | #445214

Aquaria's Avatar Comment 26 by Aquaria

the Utah woman who allegedly paid a man $150 to beat her and cause miscarriage.


Of course, this is nothing new in the States. except for the payment. Within the past 5 or so years, there was the Michigan minor who struck the abdomen of his 6-month pregnant (and likewise underage) girlfriend every day for two weeks until she went into premature labor.

I guess desperation made both sides think that $150 a woman's health and a male's future were acceptable prices to pay to save a few bucks.

Yes, going the legal route would have been very expensive after finding a judge to grant a minor the right to get an abortion, getting to a doctor or clinic who performs abortions, having a counseling session, waiting 24 hours, and finally coming back to the clinic to get the abortion itself.

If female minor doesn't live near a judge, and doesn't live close to a provider, she either has to find a way to arrange at least a few long trips to and from the courthouse and the provider, or get a hotel every time. Plus meals, either way.

The cost can add up very fast, even before paying for the abortion itself. which are quite expensive and most insurance providers do not cover)

Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:53:00 UTC | #445221

msloane's Avatar Comment 27 by msloane

Wow. America - you just get dopier.
What's the average IQ of Utah? and do I need more than the fingers of one hand to represent it?

Mon, 01 Mar 2010 07:17:00 UTC | #445251

InYourFaceNewYorker's Avatar Comment 28 by InYourFaceNewYorker

Look, with all the inbreeding that must go on in Utah, I'm sure you can answer that question for yourself! ;)

Oh and check this out. Pregnant women have been arrested!

http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/utahs_new_abortion_law_threatens_to_punish_innocent_women_for_miscarriages

and

http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/doctor_gets_court_order_to_confine_pregnant_woman_against_her_will

Mon, 01 Mar 2010 07:26:00 UTC | #445252

willdabeast's Avatar Comment 29 by willdabeast

^^^

That Florida case is pretty stunning, here's another to add to the list:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100210/NEWS/2100367/-I-never-said-I-didn-t-want-my-baby--Mom-won-t-be-prosecuted

This woman only got away from being prosecuted because she just happened to be in her 2nd trimester and not her 3rd.

So not only can a woman be charged for a "reckless" act but to potentially serve life sentences? I would just love for the court to prove beyond a doubt that the miscarriage was because of the actions of the pregnant woman. Oh but wait, chances are she will be tried in a kangaroo court with some psycho judge on the bench.

What's with all this hatred of women?

Mon, 01 Mar 2010 09:12:00 UTC | #445266

InYourFaceNewYorker's Avatar Comment 30 by InYourFaceNewYorker

Yeah I meant to post a link to a different story about that same subject.

http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/pregnant_iowa_woman_arrested_for_falling_down

That woman was clearly at the mercy of the Thought Police.

And you know, if men got pregnant, abortion would be legal, ethical, and government funded. Plus they could get it at Wal-Mart.

Julie

Mon, 01 Mar 2010 09:25:00 UTC | #445269