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← Furious backlash from Simon Singh libel case puts chiropractors on rope

Furious backlash from Simon Singh libel case puts chiropractors on rope - Comments

RichardofYork's Avatar Comment 1 by RichardofYork

Excellent . This quackery should be stopped as soon as chiropracticable . Hope I don't get sued for that .

Tue, 02 Mar 2010 23:45:00 UTC | #446067

Fuller's Avatar Comment 2 by Fuller

Wonderful! It's nice to be reminded sometimes that the world isn't completely nuts.

Tue, 02 Mar 2010 23:53:00 UTC | #446071

Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 3 by Cook@Tahiti

If only churches would also be subject to trade practices legislation as well, having to provide evidence for their claims...

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:02:00 UTC | #446073

Nunbeliever's Avatar Comment 4 by Nunbeliever

Seems like there could be a good ending to this horrible story after all... but, who knows! Thank goodness for the internet and modern communications.

I guess the BCA did not take this scenario into consideration when they filed that despicable lawsuit. The financial cost of hiring a few extra new members is NOTHING compared to the financial loss caused by bad PR! I am sure quite a few chiropractor heads will roll before this lawsuit is over. Perhaps there is some truth in that old saying that "what goes around, comes around"...

Let this be a warning to others who try to take advantage of the ridiculous British libel laws! We are watching you...

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:09:00 UTC | #446075

Ygern's Avatar Comment 5 by Ygern

What sort of a sensation-grubbing sub-editor composes these headlines! Simon Singh has been a model of restraint and reason through all of this. True, the publicity, the blogging, the campaigns around this case have impacted negatively on the BCA. But to call it a furious backlash from Simon Singh is as misleading as the original bogus BCA claims.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:10:00 UTC | #446076

jaytee_555's Avatar Comment 6 by jaytee_555

Let's see if they can cure THAT!

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:19:00 UTC | #446079

NewEnglandBob's Avatar Comment 7 by NewEnglandBob

Payback can be a bitch. This is well deserved payback.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:28:00 UTC | #446082

Carl Sai Baba's Avatar Comment 8 by Carl Sai Baba

I am sitting here giggling aloud as I read the article. Those bogus excuses for doctors are taking such a paddling!

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:48:00 UTC | #446085

Carl Sai Baba's Avatar Comment 9 by Carl Sai Baba

Ygern on March 3, 2010 at 12:10 am
What sort of a sensation-grubbing sub-editor composes these headlines! Simon Singh has been a model of restraint and reason through all of this. True, the publicity, the blogging, the campaigns around this case have impacted negatively on the BCA. But to call it a furious backlash from Simon Singh is as misleading as the original bogus BCA claims.


That is not what the headline says. Try reading it again, with assistance if necessary.

The string of characters "Simon Singh libel case" is a noun phrase.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:52:00 UTC | #446086

Sarmatae1's Avatar Comment 10 by Sarmatae1

Yes, somewhat enjoyable, a little comeuppance and seeing the BCA called on some of its BS. But the real gold nugget to be found by the Singh case is the potential for libel reform in the UK. Not much on that in the article. Yet to come hopefully.

Notably, the report concludes that the evidence does not support claims that chiropractic treatment is effective for childhood colic, bed-wetting, ear infections or asthma, the very claims that Singh was sued for describing as "bogus".

That is it in a nut shell really the rest is just fluff. That bit being buried near the end of the article whilst the whole rest of the article reads as if the BCA were the underdog being driven forth, worthy of our pity almost. That's how I read it anyway.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:24:00 UTC | #446094

huzonfurst's Avatar Comment 11 by huzonfurst

Great! Who says revenge isn't sweet?

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:06:00 UTC | #446122

MMAtheist's Avatar Comment 12 by MMAtheist

I LOVE it!

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 04:40:00 UTC | #446147

glenister_m's Avatar Comment 13 by glenister_m

Now we just need the psychics and homeopaths to sue.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 04:54:00 UTC | #446153

prolibertas's Avatar Comment 14 by prolibertas

What an epic saga. We've got them crying in the corner now.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 06:02:00 UTC | #446164

Osmano's Avatar Comment 15 by Osmano

It's there own fault for starting such a foolish libel action. What did they think would happen?

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 08:07:00 UTC | #446176

Reckless Monkey's Avatar Comment 16 by Reckless Monkey

Now if you can only get individual patients to bring a class action for ineffective treatments and sue their collective pants off the triumph will be complete.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 09:22:00 UTC | #446183

MarkOnTheRiver's Avatar Comment 17 by MarkOnTheRiver

15. Comment #466097 by Osmano

It's there own fault for starting such a foolish libel action. What did they think would happen£

Probably what all bullies that misuse the English libel system expect to happen, threaten action and massive personal costs, and expect the victim to be cowed into submission.

It is to Simon Singh's huge credit that he stood up to these bogus, snake oil peddeling bastards, and exposed their lies to the light.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:40:00 UTC | #446195

Nozzer's Avatar Comment 18 by Nozzer

I now recall that many years ago when I had some back pain I went along to my local chiropractor (the practice was just around the corner, so I'd seen posters on the windows) and was given mild massage/manipulation and several reasonable exercises to do which helped. However, he later went on to suggest that the root cause of my back trouble could be misaligned teeth (sorry - poor pun) and that he recommended that I see a good private dentist that he knew who specialised in such things. I was gob-smacked with this advice and ignored it, thinking that he was drumming up business for a friend, but never thought to take it any further. Congratulations to Simon Singh and all those who have helped in this case.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:42:00 UTC | #446197

Denial's Avatar Comment 19 by Denial

Complaints about spurious claims are a powerful tool. I used it myself and made a couple of people (who claimed on their web site they could cure cancer) suffered for it.

With just a bit of research on the legal situation in any given country and profession, and the kind of motivational push this libel case created, many similar campaigns could be started.

(Yes, even against churches, especially charismatic ones because they frequently make unsubstantiated healing claims somewhere.)

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:08:00 UTC | #446198

ev-love's Avatar Comment 20 by ev-love

Is there any significant difference between a 'chiropractor' and an 'osteopath'? Not seeking to make a point, just asking for information...

ev-love

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:57:00 UTC | #446207

mlgatheist's Avatar Comment 21 by mlgatheist

My late mother and late sister thought that chiropractors were far smarter and better than medical doctors. They claimed that their headaches, stomach problems, and arthritis were better treated by chiropractors than by their own doctors.

I tried to explain to them about the placebo affect and how highly unlikely their "treatments" were really doing anything, but their faith was unshaken.

If they were alive today, they would most likely claim that the medical doctors were the cause of the problems and not the claims of the chiropractors.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:21:00 UTC | #446232

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 22 by aquilacane

This snowball is picking up speed and the hill looks pretty steep from here. Did you ever hear the story of Simon and Goliath?

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:25:00 UTC | #446250

MMAtheist's Avatar Comment 23 by MMAtheist

ev-love

They are similar indeed and both have traditions based on weird beliefs - that basically anything can be cured by manipulating the spine (chiro) or the bones (osteo).

But apparently osteopaths are nowadays more grounded in science and tend to use gentler techniques. So if someone has back problems and conventional physiotherapy doesn't help, they should probably try an osteopath instead of a chiro.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:36:00 UTC | #446253

Dr. Strangegod's Avatar Comment 24 by Dr. Strangegod

So, once Simon wins, and he will, can we get a bunch of British writers to out all the other pseudo-sciences in print, baiting them into a libel case, at the end of which our point will have been made?

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:37:00 UTC | #446254

Adrian Bartholomew's Avatar Comment 25 by Adrian Bartholomew

24. Comment #466181 by Lucas on March 3, 2010 at 2:37 pm
So, once Simon wins, and he will, can we get a bunch of British writers to out all the other pseudo-sciences in print, baiting them into a libel case, at the end of which our point will have been made?
Not only does Simon need to win, which is by no means a certainty given the insanity of our (UK) legal system, but he has to successfully get the law changed, which is unlikely to happen anytime soon if at all.

The problem is that the British are not a free speech friendly people and our laws reflect that.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:57:00 UTC | #446260

John D.B.'s Avatar Comment 26 by John D.B.

There is only one Good Chiropractor I know of,
so good they made a film called Jacobs Ladder.
That guy can Crunch Bones!

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:19:00 UTC | #446276

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 27 by Border Collie

ev ... Osteopaths in Texas reportedly have to pass the same state medical exam as the MD's. I went to a DO one time and he seemed to be a perfectly reasonable guy. But, the bone thing is a little strange.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:12:00 UTC | #446303

prettygoodformonkeys's Avatar Comment 28 by prettygoodformonkeys

All the best to Simon, all the best to freedom of speech, and here's raising a glass to the eventual end of woo, but..

..when my back goes out, (because I haven't been operating it with enough care) my chiro is the only thing that helps it.

Having said that, though, I haven't needed him at all for eight months, since I have stuck to my exercise schedule.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:48:00 UTC | #446332

Dr. Strangegod's Avatar Comment 29 by Dr. Strangegod

Adrian - Why does the law have to change? Can't we just game the system over and over again in the same way if Simon wins? Wouldn't every future case of pseudo-medicinal claims be unable to sue for libel when exposed as being not scientific without fear of losing big in court because they all make claims that are unsupported by science?

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:08:00 UTC | #446365

Adrian Bartholomew's Avatar Comment 30 by Adrian Bartholomew

28. Comment #466260 by prettygoodformonkeys on March 3, 2010 at 5:48 pm
..when my back goes out, (because I haven't been operating it with enough care) my chiro is the only thing that helps it.
Quoting from the excellent http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3022 website:
When chiropractors use spinal manipulation therapy for symptomatic relief of mechanical low back pain, they are employing an evidence-based method also used by physical therapists, doctors of osteopathy, and others. When they do “chiropractic adjustments” to correct a “subluxation” for other conditions, especially for non-musculoskeletal conditions or “health maintenance,” they are employing a non-scientific belief system that is no longer viable.
EDIT I’ve deleted a bit here because I made a claim about information appearing on a website and websites change fast.

Thing is when your back hurts and the physio/drugs aren’t working you run out of options quickly. I would suggest that if you do have to go to a Chiropractor just mention on the way out that you may be going to an osteopath instead of a chiropractor in future because of the Singh case. Every single Chiropractor in the UK knows about this case (I’d be amazed if you can find one that does not) and if they think this is hurting their bottom line… Be aware they are probably getting their info entirely from the BCA so don’t try to argue about the specifics, it’s not worth it.
29. Comment #466296 by Lucas on March 3, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Adrian - Why does the law have to change?
Because of the colossal costs in time and money for anyone defending their free speech. Do you want to be one of the people going through several YEARS of court appearances and THOUSANDS of pounds in legal costs to defend your true statements?
EDIT Let me be plain here I make NO assertions on the effectiveness of Chiropractic! I do not claim that Simon Singh was right or wrong in any of his claims.
From the http://www.libelreform.org/sign website:

The cost of a libel trial is often in excess of £1 million and 140 times more expensive than libel cases in mainland Europe; publishers (and individual journalists, authors, academics, performers and blog-writers) cannot risk such extortionate costs, which means that they are forced to back down, withdraw and apologise for material they believe is true, fair and important to the public.
EDIT Sorry about the edits. I just want to protect myself as I don’t have the money to defend myself in court. Perhaps I am being a bit paranoid but that is kind of the problem when it comes to libel.

Wed, 03 Mar 2010 20:01:00 UTC | #446371