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← Catholic primary school set to convert to Islamic faith

Catholic primary school set to convert to Islamic faith - Comments

The Plc's Avatar Comment 1 by The Plc

The obvious question is: why does it have to be "taken over" to any local faith community leaders at all? Where is the justification? What right do they have? It's a pure non-sequiter. It'd be like handing over school to the local Premiership team because the kids and their parents mostly support Manchester United. And of course, the nightmarish consequences for the kids who support Man City is obvious torture.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:35:34 UTC | #526694

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 2 by Stevehill

The Catholics should be told they have made their bed and they have to lie in it: it is bloody inconvenient for anyone else to have to come along and bail them out, so they'll just have to keep funding the school forever, otherwise they won't be allowed to run any more schools. It's not my fault they've failed to convert the 97% of pupils who are Muslim, but clearly they are falling down on the job and need to try harder.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:43:09 UTC | #526700

jez999's Avatar Comment 3 by jez999

I'm reminded of a Sky Sports ad.

Football's not just a game; it's a religion. ;-)

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:44:10 UTC | #526701

spmccullagh's Avatar Comment 4 by spmccullagh

@The Plc - Faith schools are written into the UK statutes (not sure if that's precisely the right word - but you get the meaning) so it comes down to supply and demand. If the demand in the local area is for an Islamic Faith School as opposed to a non-denominational school then that's the right answer.

If there were more non-faith children in the area then I would be in support of the school becoming non-denominational. As it stands though 97% of the school intake is Islamic.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:44:33 UTC | #526702

Daz365's Avatar Comment 5 by Daz365

The obvious question is: who cares, are we saying when it was a catholic school it was ok and a Muslim school is worse.

It's just reflecting the local population, another non story, I remember when I came here to learn about science but that was before the site was taken over by twelve year old extremists ;)

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:50:25 UTC | #526706

NH King's Avatar Comment 6 by NH King

If they're already running a top rated school, I have very little problem with allowing the local Muslims to run another (and I am an American, so of course they need my approval). I despise Islam, but I applaud any good its followers do.

I went to a Catholic school as a child. No, I wasn't abused (at least not by early 80's standards, a few rulers and yardsticks have crossed my path). My parent enrolled me not because of the faith, since we were mostly a non-practicing Catholic family, but because it was the second best school in town, #1 being an extraordinarily expensive boarding school, also Catholic.

Especially in light of recent events, I have no affinity for the Catholic faith, but I can say that the education offered to me by their school was indeed top notch and we consistently ranked in the 90th+ percentile for US schools, at a very affordable tuition as the church wasn't running the school for profit (though they probably were for prophet).

I do favor abolishing faith schools around the world, but that's unlikely to happen any time soon. For now, I'd rather stand with those faith schools offering sound education.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:02:05 UTC | #526710

elenaripoll's Avatar Comment 7 by elenaripoll

...and yet news report on N.Ireland says that all the schools there will have to start considering mingling together if they are going to cope with the cuts ahead.

IT's all about the money.....

Single Faith schools should be illegal by now.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:03:36 UTC | #526711

elenaripoll's Avatar Comment 8 by elenaripoll

BBC news about N.Ireland schools:

"An economic consultancy has said shared education could help Northern Ireland schools survive the harsh funding cuts which are expected.

Oxford Economics said excess capacity in schools is partly due to having different schools for both Protestants and Catholics in the same communities.

It argues that one school may be enough.

It said NI's separate education sectors may be more willing to accept reform at a time of financial stringency. "

so why wouldn't same work for other part of UK then!

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:08:14 UTC | #526716

The Plc's Avatar Comment 9 by The Plc

Comment 4 by spmccullagh :

@The Plc - Faith schools are written into the UK statutes (not sure if that's precisely the right word - but you get the meaning) so it comes down to supply and demand. If the demand in the local area is for an Islamic Faith School as opposed to a non-denominational school then that's the right answer.

If there were more non-faith children in the area then I would be in support of the school becoming non-denominational. As it stands though 97% of the school intake is Islamic.

That's really not addressing the point of my post. My point is: what right do self appointed religious charlatans have when they interfere with the running of schools, any schools, whether they are local or not, or whether they are popular or not? What right do they have over local insituitions such as sports clubs, or businesses, or political parties, or any other hierarchical racket you can think of? If the statues do indeed say say what you claim, then that is clearly unjust and irresponsible. Futhermore, why should the taxpayer subside it?

Also all children are technically non-faith children, only their parents are old enough to understand and decide what particular religions to believe and not believe in.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:15:13 UTC | #526722

veggiemanuk's Avatar Comment 10 by veggiemanuk

Comment 4 by spmccullagh :

If there were more non-faith children in the area then I would be in support of the school becoming non-denominational. As it stands though 97% of the school intake is Islamic.

All children are non-faith, it's parents and these damn institutions that turn them into faith-children.

What other purpose do these schools serve other than to educate them into their faith? Do we really think its for the GOOD of the children?

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:23:58 UTC | #526726

elenaripoll's Avatar Comment 11 by elenaripoll

Single faith schools tend not to 'educate' but instruct their pupils in passing exams, (same as religious leader's do to followers lol) Even some universities are now ignoring grades and going on the interview's to see if that pupil can think for themselves e.t.c e.t.c

I came out of a catholic school with a gazzilion of A's ans B's in loads of subjects, but I was a very ignorant person on most topics, evolution was not even mentioned once.

I got an A* in GCSE religion...whooo hoooo, I learnt every word of that Mark's Gospel so darn good!!!

(that was it, honestly 2 years learning the Mark's gospel word for word I kid you not!!!!)

I'm starting to think that the way a single faith school instructs it's pupil's to pass exams, could be construed as 'cheating' HA!

So the demand in UK is not for single faith schools, but for schools which ease the guilt of lazy parenting without costing a small fortune!!!

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:38:50 UTC | #526732

ajs261's Avatar Comment 12 by ajs261

The school shouldn't have been Catholic run in the first place and now it shouldn't be run by Muslims. This country depresses me.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:55:29 UTC | #526738

sunbeamforjeebus's Avatar Comment 13 by sunbeamforjeebus

Why does the local Education Authority not take over the running of the school and simply run it as a local primary?Why does there have to be a 'faith'involved.If a private road in this area was to be adopted by the Council Highways department would it have to somehow reflect the religions of the residents of the road?

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:02:15 UTC | #526740

GrayMatt's Avatar Comment 14 by GrayMatt

I would prefer a catholic run school. At least catholicism feels like a religion in decline, whose central tenets are nothing more than dusty old ritualised nonsense. Islam is a younger religion on the increase, and seems less embarrassed by its non-rational foundations.

If it is purely a management issue, then of course it is irrelevant which faith "governs" the school. But is it purely a management issue? Surely a catholic/islamic school would at least "trickle down" some of its metaphysical/ethical teachings?

I propose that it would be preferable to have right-minded people that don't believe in sky-fairies managing the education of our children.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:11:06 UTC | #526743

Disbelief's Avatar Comment 15 by Disbelief

Why doesn't some prominent athiest/non religious figure with a scientific educational background offer to become involved.

Can anyone here think of a suitable person?

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:22:52 UTC | #526748

Enlightenme..'s Avatar Comment 16 by Enlightenme..

According to a report presented to Blackburn with Darwen Borough Council's executive, if Sacred Heart became a Muslim school it would "provide increased diversity...

Oh fuh fuxake.

And where does that picture come from? Part of the received wisdom is that they (whoever this 'they' represents) didn't enforce dress code at this young an age..
It seems things must have slipped a little further along since the last series of 'Sharia TV' was on Channel 4.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:25:28 UTC | #526750

NH King's Avatar Comment 17 by NH King

Comment 11 by elenaripoll : ... I came out of a catholic school with a gazzilion of A's ans B's in loads of subjects, but I was a very ignorant person on most topics, evolution was not even mentioned once. ...

There is a wide variety in Catholic schools, then. In the words of Sr. Claire, my 4th grade science teacher, "You're a fool if you think evolution did not happen. It's as plain as the nose on my face it did."

While we were taught bad evolution, a summary that was just a tad better than an OED definition, we were taught evolution and were expected to use both the theory and the process for the rest of our science courses at St John. It was very weird in hind-sight, though at the time I had no problem. In every one of our classes but Catholic catechism, critical thinking was demanded. I still credit that school with making me the atheist I am today, not for any bad they did, but the good. Too bad a thank you note would be in poor taste.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:28:22 UTC | #526751

Enlightenme..'s Avatar Comment 18 by Enlightenme..

Comment 14 by GrayMatt :

I propose that it would be preferable to have right-minded people that don't believe in sky-fairies managing the education of our children.

They're not 'our' children.

They're not even 'their' children.

That's primarily what The Enlightenment was about.

They're supposed to be under the state's protection from such ghettoisation. Where have the Liberals gone in this coalition?

[How the hell do you go down one line with this new system, without having to break?]

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:37:29 UTC | #526756

Saikat Biswas's Avatar Comment 19 by Saikat Biswas

We should worry about faith schools that are even willing to consider guidelines as ghastly as these

http://www.mcb.org.uk/downloads/Schoolinfoguidance.pdf

The sheer audacity of these demands takes the breath away.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:43:33 UTC | #526757

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 20 by AtheistEgbert

It is a mistake. America is next.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:53:21 UTC | #526764

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 21 by irate_atheist

Comment 12 by ajs261

The school shouldn't have been Catholic run in the first place and now it shouldn't be run by Muslims. This country depresses me.

I quite agree. It is an utter disgrace.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:07:59 UTC | #526770

paulifa1's Avatar Comment 22 by paulifa1

@ Daz365

Much as I have no love for Catholisism, yes Islam is much worse, if it ever reaches a critical mass where it can have real political clout in the UK you can kiss goodbye to the free and tolerant society we now enjoy here.

I just don't understand why people in authority can't see the menace of faith in general and especially the danger Islam poses to our way of life.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:09:53 UTC | #526771

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 23 by Alan4discussion

You will need to think deeply about this!

With house prices holding at earlier inflated levels, in many areas child populations are falling with schools reorganising or closing. The buildings are being re-used or sold off, so its going to happen all over Britain under the present set-up.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:34:04 UTC | #526776

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 24 by Richard Dawkins

The obvious question is: who cares, are we saying when it was a catholic school it was ok and a Muslim school is worse.

Yes. It is worse. MUCH worse

Richard

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:44:06 UTC | #526783

Peter Grant's Avatar Comment 25 by Peter Grant

Can this sort of thing happen to secular schools in Britain, or is it just the faith schools which are vulnerable?

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:06:35 UTC | #526803

Andrew B.'s Avatar Comment 26 by Andrew B.

Comment 22 by paulifa1 :

@ Daz365

Much as I have no love for Catholisism, yes Islam is much worse, if it ever reaches a critical mass where it can have real political clout in the UK you can kiss goodbye to the free and tolerant society we now enjoy here.

I just don't understand why people in authority can't see the menace of faith in general and especially the danger Islam poses to our way of life.

Because those in authority (politicians, specifically) are desperate for votes. They're concerned about the impending election/referendum/vote and not the future of the country. They'll happily take the "tolerant" stance towards any minority group even if that groups behavior is dangerous. They feel they must avoid giving the appearance of racism, which is quite different than actually being a racist.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:46:51 UTC | #526810

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 27 by Philoctetes

Here's an idea, lets convert it to an EDUCATION school. And while we're at it lets do that to all schools, and that includes secular ones

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:48:36 UTC | #526811

EricTheRed's Avatar Comment 28 by EricTheRed

Second most evil religion gives way to the most evil religion.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:59:15 UTC | #526815

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 29 by PrimeNumbers

Comment 19 by Saikat Biswas :

We should worry about faith schools that are even willing to consider guidelines as ghastly as these

http://www.mcb.org.uk/downloads/Schoolinfoguidance.pdf

The sheer audacity of these demands takes the breath away.

I've just quickly read through that document and it's quite incredible the number of exceptions that they need. All the exceptions are through their own personal choice of being a Muslim. It's hard to imagine how tricky it would be to integrate their demands into a school without causing chaos. If Muslims want to fit into society, perhaps they should try fitting in, rather than trying to get everything changed to their needs.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:29:06 UTC | #526829

The Plc's Avatar Comment 30 by The Plc

Comment 26 by Andrew B. :

Comment 22 by paulifa1 :

@ Daz365

Much as I have no love for Catholisism, yes Islam is much worse, if it ever reaches a critical mass where it can have real political clout in the UK you can kiss goodbye to the free and tolerant society we now enjoy here.

I just don't understand why people in authority can't see the menace of faith in general and especially the danger Islam poses to our way of life.

Because those in authority (politicians, specifically) are desperate for votes. They're concerned about the impending election/referendum/vote and not the future of the country. They'll happily take the "tolerant" stance towards any minority group even if that groups behavior is dangerous. They feel they must avoid giving the appearance of racism, which is quite different than actually being a racist.

There are a few openingly anti-religious and secular politicians in the UK though, Evan Harris is a prominent one for example, and as far as I know he manages to escape the "intolerant racialist secularist" moronic vilification. There is even a cross party humanist parliamentary campaign group in the House of Commons. Perhaps we need just a few more like him to come-out as proud secularists, demonstrate that it's ok to hold secularist political views, and the numbers of politicians on 'our side' will snowball? I find it very difficult to believe that most politicians are religious, never mind are sincerely interested in accommodating religions. These are sober, intelligent, educated people we are talking about after all. Well, mostly.

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:42:57 UTC | #526841