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← On Facebook, young Muslims turn away from Islam

On Facebook, young Muslims turn away from Islam - Comments

axeanne's Avatar Comment 1 by axeanne

How long before the "Religion of Peace" proclaims a fatwa to kill these brave young people?

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:17:40 UTC | #528801

Rob Schneider's Avatar Comment 2 by Rob Schneider

Evolution... speciation... is allowed by isolated islands. Facebook (and the internet generally) eliminates the islands, and will lead to changes. This is good news, though powerful forces have been known to limit access to the internet. Can they bottle the genie?

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:17:40 UTC | #528802

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 3 by Richard Dawkins

Oh, small as it is, this is the most heartening news I have heard for a long time. What can we do to help these excellent young Pakistanis, without endangering them? If, by any chance, any of them reads this web site, please get in touch to let us know how we might help. If anybody here has friends in Pakistan, or elsewhere afflicted by the 'religion of peace' (it isn't even funny any more, is it?), or facebook friends, please encourage them to join and support these brave young people.

Richard

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:28:19 UTC | #528803

Jason72's Avatar Comment 4 by Jason72

Good luck to them all and the many more who will be brave enough to join. That is until Facebook pander to the wims of the "Religion of Peace" and pulls the group of the site for blasphemy or some other pathetic reason!

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:41:46 UTC | #528810

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 5 by Steve Zara

Hazrat is a young computer programmer from Lahore. Another member, posted on the discussion board: "I'm an agnostic simply because I see little or no evidence for the existence of God. Some time ago I decided that I'd never believe anything unless it has a firm basis in reason and as far as I know (and I admit I know very little and there's much to be learnt), there's little or no evidence for the existence of God."

Isn't that heartwarming? The honest admission of ignorance. What wonderful news.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:42:14 UTC | #528811

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 6 by AtheistEgbert

Pakistan is a dangerous place for atheism. So I am naturally concerned for any atheists out there. But atheists have been known to be extremely brave and courageous. And so I do hope that they grow while protecting themselves. What encourages me about this is the idea that change can happen from the individual upwards, rather than being imposed downwards by wars.

Atheism can provide stability, especially if atheists continue to defend human rights globally.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:42:40 UTC | #528813

cheesedoff17's Avatar Comment 7 by cheesedoff17

This is excellent news.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:47:04 UTC | #528815

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 8 by AtheistEgbert

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Secular-Pakistan/319976709204

I think this is the correct page. Let's try and support them in any way we can.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:52:16 UTC | #528818

beeline's Avatar Comment 9 by beeline

A computer programmer, eh? It's no coincidence that if you teach someone to think analytically, they almost inevitably soon come to all sorts of other realisations, particularly about their own lives and beliefs.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:54:31 UTC | #528819

root2squared's Avatar Comment 10 by root2squared

When I turned 17-18, I realized that the only reason I was a Muslim was because my parents were Muslims".

This is a very simple and yet, devastating argument. The majority of religiobots simply follow the religion of their parents. The idea that your religion is right simply because YOU were born into it is just egomaniacal.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:55:45 UTC | #528820

Krio Gnosz's Avatar Comment 11 by Krio Gnosz

The comments from the "faithful" kind of Muslims on that site are very much giggle-worthy. Just two pages in, and already got these:

"ndtv u disappointed me ... this is rubbish . y dont u post that islam is fastest growing religion in the world"

"This is the worst ever "so-called" News that i have read on NDTV.com... Remove it or else we will call for NDTV to be banned."

"I BELIEVE THIS IS NOT A CORRECT NEWS..I REALLY SHOCKED TO SEE THIS TYPE OF NEWS ON NDTV........NOW I CAN SAY WE MUST NOT BELIEVE ON NDTV NEWS..."

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:01:32 UTC | #528821

green and dying's Avatar Comment 12 by green and dying

Comment 10 by root2squared :

When I turned 17-18, I realized that the only reason I was a Muslim was because my parents were Muslims".

This is a very simple and yet, devastating argument. The majority of religiobots simply follow the religion of their parents. The idea that your religion is right simply because YOU were born into it is just egomaniacal.

What if you have atheist parents?

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:12:45 UTC | #528825

opposablethumbs's Avatar Comment 13 by opposablethumbs

It looks like a lot of these people are currently living and studying outside of Pakistan, which at least means the government will not be able to suppress the site altogether - although they have already cut off access to Facebook from within Pakistan altogether in the past (over the Everybody Draw Mohammed Day page).

And yes, it's very heartening!

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:18:33 UTC | #528826

Marie Lauritzen's Avatar Comment 14 by Marie Lauritzen

Great :D

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:32:15 UTC | #528828

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 15 by Richard Dawkins

Anonymous 3 weeks ago O Muslims .......have patience......put faith and trust in Allah. These infidels will surely get punished by hell fire.......our job was only to inform them and not to fight. Let there be no argument!!! We will soon see ......inshallah!!!!

That is the first comment on the source site. What a truly vile mental disease religion is. How terrible for a human mind to be possessed by such an odious virus.

Richard

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:34:08 UTC | #528829

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 16 by SaganTheCat

gotta love social networking for spreading dissent!

seeing things like this from a country where atheism is such a dangerous idea i can't help wondering just how many are waiting to be deconverted but are too scared to even examine their beliefs let alone consider giving them up

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:36:13 UTC | #528831

Sensible's Avatar Comment 17 by Sensible

Comment 12 by green and dying

What if you have atheist parents?

As a freethinker you are given the chance to think for yourself. If you do wish to subscribe to mythical fairy tales, you have that option of course, but having been taught logical reasoning I can't imagine too many converts to any kind of religion.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:36:42 UTC | #528832

Logicel's Avatar Comment 18 by Logicel

Atheist parents often encourage their kids to learn about religions and many will accept if their children decide to choose an religion. However, it is much rarer for theist parents to do the same.

The more who leave Islam the easier it will be for others and harder for the crazies to kill everyone so their fatwas will become null and void. It will be a long process, but it is beginning.

I will note this facebook group as a reference so when I do encounter former muslims, now atheists, I can alert them to it.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:47:56 UTC | #528836

chawinwords's Avatar Comment 19 by chawinwords

As small as the crack might be or appear to be, the hierarchy of the Muslim faith ("An institution to express belief in a divine power") and that profits both financially and with power, will do whatever they think is necessary to close the crack. It is not only Muslim history that insures that effort, but Christian history as well -- think Bruno and the 400 years it took for the Catholic Church to apologise to Bruno -- but, I don't think the apology did Bruno any good or brought comfort to his slow-roasted body. Of course, Bruno is only one example of a crucifiction (sacrifice) in a fight for the right to think independently, out of countless thousands, or even millions. Just remember how the religious believers control the word "persecution" for their own ends, and for filling the cracks. Then too, if the young ex-Muslims are crucified, it will be for insulting God, not for insulting the faith or the organized institution(s).

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:48:45 UTC | #528837

root2squared's Avatar Comment 20 by root2squared

Comment 12 by green and dying :

Comment 10 by root2squared :

When I turned 17-18, I realized that the only reason I was a Muslim was because my parents were Muslims".

This is a very simple and yet, devastating argument. The majority of religiobots simply follow the religion of their parents. The idea that your religion is right simply because YOU were born into it is just egomaniacal.

What if you have atheist parents?

An atheist who claims atheism is correct simply because (s)he was born into an atheist family is no less stupid.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:49:04 UTC | #528838

green and dying's Avatar Comment 21 by green and dying

Comment 17 by Sensible :

As a freethinker you are given the chance to think for yourself. If you do wish to subscribe to mythical fairy tales, you have that option of course, but having been taught logical reasoning I can't imagine too many converts to any kind of religion.

Religious people think they are thinking for themselves too, though.

Comment 20 by root2squared :

An atheist who claims atheism is correct simply because (s)he was born into an atheist family is no less stupid.

I agree, but most religious people wouldn't claim that's why they believe in it - they actually find it plausible.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:53:04 UTC | #528841

eivind's Avatar Comment 22 by eivind

There's many MANY more, offcourse. But the intolerance of their society and government means most of them keep their mouths shut in public.

I personally know around half a dozen Iranians, only 2 of which are believing muslims, but all of which would appear to be, if you where a stranger.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:54:29 UTC | #528842

Moosebite's Avatar Comment 23 by Moosebite

When I turned 17-18, I realized that the only reason I was a Muslim was because my parents were Muslims". This is a very simple and yet, devastating argument. The majority of religiobots simply follow the religion of their parents. The idea that your religion is right simply because YOU were born into it is just egomaniacal.

It's awesome to hear someone (especially from somewhere like Pakistan) to say this, and link it directly to their arrival at atheism.

However, as devastating as it is, I got my gf to admit this very thing, that she was only Christian because her parents are, and it is not a barrier between her brain and her beliefs. 'Faith' is such an intricate web of psychological phenomenon, I never know where to start.

But sincerely, this is awesome to see. I'm with you Richard. I'd love to offer my support for these guys in any way I can. Kinda makes me wish I hadn't torn down my FB.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:58:18 UTC | #528844

Atropa's Avatar Comment 24 by Atropa

As in so many ludicrous belief systems, Religion, homeopathy, monarchy etc built upon dogma and the suppression of thought, it only needs the first question to be asked to bring the whole pack of cards down. Problem is, it takes a long time to get the questions asked openly. Good luck to the brave Pakistani atheists.

Don't ask awkward questions boy, Or the church will take you to task. We never answer questions, boy, We silence them that ask.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:08:50 UTC | #528850

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 25 by Stevehill

Excellent.

Thanks to AtheistEgbert for the link at Comment 8. If you're on Facebook, just go there and "Like" the site. I've posted a reciprocal link to here for them, so they know they've got some support.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:10:05 UTC | #528851

keithapm's Avatar Comment 26 by keithapm

Comment 15 by Richard Dawkins  

Anonymous 3 weeks ago O Muslims .......have patience......put faith and trust in Allah. These infidels will surely get punished by hell fire.......our job was only to inform them and not to fight. Let there be no argument!!! We will soon see ......inshallah   !!!!   That is the first comment on the source site. What a truly vile mental disease religion is. How terrible for a human mind to be possessed by such an odious virus.   Richard

"Odious." Nice word. It's one I don't often get to use but it's very apt in this context. What utter madness.

Anyway, the article is quite inspiring. It just goes to show that as long as people will have questions and thoughts of their own, reason and science cannot die.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:21:27 UTC | #528855

Hideous Dwarf's Avatar Comment 27 by Hideous Dwarf

It is terrifying that we have to refer to these young people as 'brave', but that they are, risking their very lives for freedom of thought. It's easy for me to be an atheist, raised in the Methodist church - in fact it is delightful sometimes when I can debate religious issues with a dear Christian friend, although he shares my feelings on the creationist claptrap.

Perhaps there are many silent groups of atheists in the Muslim world who will be encouraged by these few speaking out, although I could not be so crass as expect them to take to the streets. This could be the start of something wonderful and I hope we can support them somehow.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:27:28 UTC | #528859

mqalander's Avatar Comment 28 by mqalander

Being and ex-pakistani and an atheist for about 2 years, I can relate to these guys. They really have done something that is unthinkable. Living in that culture, it would not be possible for them to admit openly in the society, because if they do, they have to first go through a social death and then might be who knows what else could happened to them. I am just glad to be lucky enough to get out of that place and enjoying the freedom that I never had before. For me, in Pak, it was bad enough already to be part of a sect which is not considered as Muslim according to the constitution of that country and had be subjected to persecution so many times because of what I used to belief. Now, when I do not belief in any thing, life could be much worst. I salute these individuals to stand up on what they think is right.

Also, I sincerely wants to thank Mr. Dawkins to show his support towards these brave men. Mr. Dawkins have done so much for people like me by helping us freeing our thoughts and lives from the clutches of religious illness.

Thank you so much.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:49:33 UTC | #528868

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 29 by Stafford Gordon

Of course, this is good news, and they're to be commended, but I fear for them.

Now, we may see just how loving a religion this really is.

But I love the bit about the volte-face apropos of the preacher man and Salman Rushdie; very funny!

It's a good example of how the critical and reasoning faculties benefit when freed from religion.

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:55:26 UTC | #528869

mqalander's Avatar Comment 30 by mqalander

Thank you Mr.Dawkins. Being an ex-Pakistani, your words of support mean so much to me and my countrymen free thinkers.

Comment 3 by Richard Dawkins :

Oh, small as it is, this is the most heartening news I have heard for a long time. What can we do to help these excellent young Pakistanis, without endangering them? If, by any chance, any of them reads this web site, please get in touch to let us know how we might help. If anybody here has friends in Pakistan, or elsewhere afflicted by the 'religion of peace' (it isn't even funny any more, is it?), or facebook friends, please encourage them to join and support these brave young people.

Richard

Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:56:53 UTC | #528871