This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← AP EXCLUSIVE: Future pope stalled pedophile case

AP EXCLUSIVE: Future pope stalled pedophile case - Comments

Rodger T's Avatar Comment 1 by Rodger T

OH no, more "gossip",and out of context too.
Deary me, the facts can be such an inconvenience.

Looks like the parishioners need a can of,

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=64f_1270781261

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:13:00 UTC | #457624

jel's Avatar Comment 2 by jel

How much more evidence is required to prove that not only is this institution criminal, but that it is headed by a criminal?
Why does this odious man still have an invite to my country? He should be hounded and his organisation should be ridiculed wherever he goes.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:22:00 UTC | #457625

Alovrin's Avatar Comment 3 by Alovrin

From teh article

The then-Cardinal Ratzinger didn't cover up the case, but as the letter clearly shows, made clear the need to study the case with more attention, taking into account the good of all involved."


No not covering up....studying..... more attention.......taking into account the good of all involved.
WTF?
Just take 'em away.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:23:00 UTC | #457626

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 4 by Steve Zara

How can anyone possibly support the idea of a Catholic faith school after this scandal? Have these people in charge of children?

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:37:00 UTC | #457628

Monkey Man's Avatar Comment 5 by Monkey Man

Aw come on guys! You're taking it out of context!!! Stop being so mean! It only took 6 years to get him removed, Jeez!

"bragged that he was the Pied Piper and said he tried to molest every child that sat on his lap,"

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:48:00 UTC | #457631

ColdFusionLazarus's Avatar Comment 6 by ColdFusionLazarus

Smoking guns everywhere, and Ratzy's fingerprints all over them. Like all politicians he thinks he can ignore the scandal he is drowning in by repeating the mantra "Deny! Deny! Deny!" But it's getting more difficult for him every day.

And still he preaches about the evils of others!

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:49:00 UTC | #457632

petermun's Avatar Comment 7 by petermun

"The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin" - obviously a paedo-credo.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:52:00 UTC | #457633

severalspeciesof's Avatar Comment 8 by severalspeciesof

7. Comment #478243 by petermun

"The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin"
That struck me as very curious...

I wonder how many letters from the US are written in Latin to delegates in Rome...

Was someone afraid of this letter falling into the wrong hands, so if it's written in Latin, there would be less chance of somone knowing about the situation?

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:59:00 UTC | #457636

Corylus's Avatar Comment 9 by Corylus

SSO

Was someone afraid of this letter falling into the wrong hands, so if it's written in Latin, there would be less chance of somone knowing about the situation?
Possibly, or it just might be a case of:

Quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.

(Trans: Anything said in Latin sounds profound).

Scary too, and not to be messed with.

[Typo edit]

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:05:00 UTC | #457638

Ivan The Not So Bad's Avatar Comment 10 by Ivan The Not So Bad

Citizens of Britain, keep signing the petition:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ProtestthePope/

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:05:00 UTC | #457639

shaunfletcher's Avatar Comment 11 by shaunfletcher

Ah no doubt he was too wrapped up in theological debate to find time for mere earthly reading of things before signing them. The letter was probably written by an underling who is imppossible to identify. So thats okay.

It gets worse and worse for them.. and I feel no sadness at their inevitable passing.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:10:00 UTC | #457640

David Blackwell's Avatar Comment 12 by David Blackwell

"The press office doesn't believe it is necessary to respond to every single document taken out of context regarding particular legal situations," the Rev. Federico Lombardi said. "It is not strange that there are single documents which have Cardinal Ratzinger's signature."

The Vatican's last stand, it would seem.

How pathetic. Even now they continue to attempt to cover up and lie.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:14:00 UTC | #457641

Lord Osis's Avatar Comment 13 by Lord Osis

More great news....

Bring it on! And surely this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:15:00 UTC | #457642

blitz442's Avatar Comment 14 by blitz442

The crucial issue for me is the role of Catholic theology in this.

Did Catholic theology promote or encourage pedophilia and abuse of children? No

Did Catholic theology contribute to the cover ups and pathetic excuses for the abuse? More and more this seems to be yes.

Desparate Catholics will argue that this is due to human failings and is not a theology issue. Even more strongly, they will argue that secular concerns are what is actually driving the cover-ups, lies and avoidance of responsibility. In other words, if the Church was truer to its pure Christian roots of contrition, it would not worry about its institutional status, money, and other "wordly" concerns and would have done the right thing and avoided this scandal.

This seems absurd. First, the people who are blaming the church's actions on the influence of secularism are the often same ones blaming the secular media for pointing out the scandal!

And what should the Church have done better? If you agree that the Church should have worked with secular authorities in bringing these abusers to justice, then how could you possibly blame secularism for NOT doing this?

And if you think that only the Church has any authority in this matter and acted accordingly, then where do you get THAT idea from?

"If only the Church, which was corrupted by secularism, had not been so concerned with image and money, it would have...."

Would have what? Turned over the priests to secular authorities? Banned them from any contact with children? Been open and contrite with parishoners about the extent and nature of the abuse?

Catholic theology makes all of the above very difficult. The Church is not man-made and is therefore above the law. Private penance and prayer are the real andedotes to immoral acts. And being open about this might undermine the authority of the church, which as the sole source of God's grace on earth, must be protected at all costs.

And I'm not even going to dignify the "secularism, sexual freedom, hippies, etc. led to widespread pedophilia" argument, as if child abuse did not exist before 1960, with a response.

Don't blame secularism for this mess. Faith, as we too often see, is at the root of this.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:17:00 UTC | #457643

samander03's Avatar Comment 15 by samander03

I'm quite tired of reading the papers every morning and having to go the rest of the day with a sick stomach thinking about how these bastards get away with all of this. They should all be rounded up and prosecuted. The sooner the better. If they are not, and they continue to do whatever it is that they feel like doing, it would certainly make more of a sham of our already embarrassing judicial system. Not prosecuting people for disgusting crimes because they are in a special club is absurdly corrupt. Period.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:19:00 UTC | #457644

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 16 by Bernard Hurley

Comment #478246 by severalspeciesof

"The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin"


That struck me as very curious...


The Vatican uses routinely uses Latin for official documents. Even where they have official translations, it is always the Latin version that is authoritative. Moreover the Vatican often ask for requests to made in Latin before they will answer them.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:32:00 UTC | #457646

Mark Jones's Avatar Comment 17 by Mark Jones

Comment #478248 by Corylus

"Romanes eunt domus"

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:49:00 UTC | #457649

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 18 by Bernard Hurley

Comment #478259 by Mark Jones

"Romanes eunt domus"


sic transit gloria mundi!

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:57:00 UTC | #457651

Rikitiki13's Avatar Comment 19 by Rikitiki13

Quid cranium acturitas

(A fave from freshman Latin class...)

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 22:07:00 UTC | #457652

Papalinton's Avatar Comment 20 by Papalinton

I have just listened to the news on the radio, jumped onto the net, opened up the RDN website, and sure enough the pope has been at it again. Please tell me anyone, is there a pattern forming here?

I understand mr ratsinger considered child molestation a sin rather than a crime. You could not have erected (pardon the pun) a bigger sign or a klaxon horn declaring that it is OK to do a bit of kiddie-fiddle, and then on the way out go through the process of admission, confession, absolution and penitence and hey presto! the perpetrator is ready for the next kiddie-tussle with a clear conscience.
Whence the moral authority now?
I am so sad

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 22:41:00 UTC | #457655

Alan Canon's Avatar Comment 21 by Alan Canon

Does anyone have a link to the text of the letter, either the Latin original, or the translation prepared for the AP?

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:14:00 UTC | #457659

Tiende Landeplage's Avatar Comment 22 by Tiende Landeplage

How often have we all seen some variation on the following argument against atheism:

"But without belief in God, humanity would live in a moral vacuum and nihilism would reign — because anything would be permissible!"

On the contrary, it appears to be the Vatican's view that anything is permissible as long as the Church's reputation is "untainted". Actions count for nothing, belief in this medieval mumbo-jumbo counts for everything. Are Ratzo & Co. really counting on people not recognizing this for what it truly is:
Nihilism, a moral vacuum, and most of all: Cynical abuse of power.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:22:00 UTC | #457662

severalspeciesof's Avatar Comment 23 by severalspeciesof

16. Comment #478256 by Bernard Hurley

The Vatican uses routinely uses Latin for official documents. Even where they have official translations, it is always the Latin version that is authoritative. Moreover the Vatican often ask for requests to made in Latin before they will answer them.
Thanks for clearing that up, always good to learn things...

It's also good that there is one less item to fuel the bonfire of conscious cover up... Those flames are already atomic bomb sized...

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:31:00 UTC | #457665

OutragedofDaylesford's Avatar Comment 24 by OutragedofDaylesford

I feel a little disquiet about only blaming the church hierachy for this problem. Someone once said that people get the politicians that they deserve, and I think that this is true of the clergy as well.
Given a choice between on the one hand having their 7 year old daughter buggered by a priest, and on the other hand critisising the pope, most catholics will make a b liine for the buggery.

Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:56:00 UTC | #457669

MarcCountry's Avatar Comment 25 by MarcCountry

Sure, child rape IS disgusting, but does that mean it OUGHT TO BE disgusting?

Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:02:00 UTC | #457670

severalspeciesof's Avatar Comment 26 by severalspeciesof

24. Comment #478279 by OutragedofDaylesford

Given a choice between on the one hand having their 7 year old daughter buggered by a priest, and on the other hand critisising the pope, most catholics will make a b liine for the buggery.

I know the disgust is warranted but,

Sorry, I must disagree sharply on this...

That's a false summation of reality...

Many don't know there's a choice...

Here's a real problem: Many catholics don't have a grasp of the reality of the institutionalism of the cover up...

But soon, hopefully, many will finally come to grips with it...

Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:11:00 UTC | #457672

cornbread_r2's Avatar Comment 27 by cornbread_r2

IIRC, one reason Latin is used is because it's a "dead" language. Even though some new words are added to the vocabulary (i.e. helicoptorum), the grammar hasn't changed in centuries and isn't ever going to change in the future. Consequently, a Latin sentence constructed eight hundred years ago means exactly the same today as it will hundreds of years from now.

Using a single official language also greatly reduces the chances of misinterpretation inherent in translating official business from and into hundreds of different languages/dialects.

Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:53:00 UTC | #457675

FXR's Avatar Comment 28 by FXR

Latin also perpetuates an unbroken line back to the Roman Empire on which the Roman Catholic Church is based. The Pope carries the title Pontifex Maximus dating back to Julius Cesaer.

Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:25:00 UTC | #457683

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 29 by Agrajag

Somewhat off-topic, here's another clergy person behaving badly:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/31/preacher.freezer/index.html
Steve

Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:27:00 UTC | #457684

Piero's Avatar Comment 30 by Piero

Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:55:00 UTC | #457687