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← Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse

Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse - Comments

Prankster's Avatar Comment 1 by Prankster

The original date on this is right? 17 August 2003?

And a previous pope who was in charge years before Darth Ratzi and John Paul 11 was also involved?

Another nail in the coffin eh folks? Let's just keep hammering away....

Bastards.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:26:00 UTC | #460920

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 2 by PrimeNumbers

If animals could speak, would they now be claiming they were raped by the Church also?

Sounds like we need full access to the Vatican archives. I think an international police raid on the Vatican for evidence to try and stop them destroying it would be the way forward, rounding up Ratzinger and his cronies as they go.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:28:00 UTC | #460921

Prankster's Avatar Comment 3 by Prankster

Bastards.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:30:00 UTC | #460922

DamnDirtyApe's Avatar Comment 4 by DamnDirtyApe

'diligently stored in the secret archives of the Curia'

Grief, is it really like that big warehouse where they store the arch of the covenant in raiders of the lost ark?

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:35:00 UTC | #460923

GodlessHeathen's Avatar Comment 5 by GodlessHeathen

The breadth and scope of this is breathtaking.

After all this solid evidence of the cover-up we still have folks defending the RCC.

The mind boggles.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:38:00 UTC | #460924

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 6 by SaganTheCat

just shows the hold the vatican have

it's my guess that bishops knew what was going on, deliberately kept the authorities in the dark but could be for a number of reasons.

personal gain: doing as they're told to protect their career

personal guilt: not wanting to rock the boat for fear of being caught out themselves

personal weakness: simply not man enough to put the law before papal instructions

personal faith: scariest of all. what good is a law against the threat of excommunication to someone who believes in eternal hell (qm)

if faith in an afterlife can make an ordinary man blow himself up killing innocent people there's no hope of true belivers coming forward about child abuse cases they know of. arguably an act of faith should get one out of guilt as it's acting under duress

The pope is the undisputed head of the church and as such is the undisputed voice of their god

he should answer to why he backed this ruling including why his god decreed that children who were raped would burn in hell if they asked for help.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:39:00 UTC | #460925

MrPickwick's Avatar Comment 7 by MrPickwick

This is old news. The document has been online in the Vatican official website for quite some time now (after it was leaked, of course). In his 2001 letter (De delictis gravioribus)Ratzi referred to this document:

...because the instruction Crimen Sollicitationis, issued by the supreme sacred Congregation of the Holy Office on March 16, 1962,in force until now...
in the same letter where he wrote:
Cases of this kind are subject to the pontifical secret.

But what amazes me more is that, being old news, this 1962 document is not front page in every newspaper around the world.

And yes: Bastards!

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:48:00 UTC | #460926

at3p's Avatar Comment 8 by at3p

The Vatican should be turned into a big open air prison. Just build a big fence around it and lock those child-rapists up, along with their accomplices. I'm sorry for the rich architecture and art which could not be relocated from there... but it would be worth it.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:50:00 UTC | #460928

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 9 by Stafford Gordon

The connection between Musolini and the See of Rome provides food for thought; a fascist leader helping to establish a "state"; what might the nature of that state be I wonder?

Could it be that the skies are darkening with chickens coming home to roost?

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:51:00 UTC | #460929

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 10 by Bernard Hurley

I wonder who is leaking all this stuff. You can't just go to and Vatican and say "Show me some stuff from your secret archives."

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:00 UTC | #460948

mrjohnno's Avatar Comment 11 by mrjohnno

If the CC was clean as a whistle then they would let independent investigators check out their files! Wouldn't it be great for them to be able to say 'I told you so'?

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:56:00 UTC | #460954

Chris Roberts's Avatar Comment 12 by Chris Roberts

This is worrying.

It focuses on sexual abuse initiated as part of the confessional relationship between a priest and a member of his congregation. But the instructions also cover what it calls the 'worst crime', described as an obscene act perpetrated by a cleric with 'youths of either sex or with brute animals (bestiality)'.

Does the RCC also have a problem with priests shagging animals now?
And how can they claim any morals, let alone god-given absolute morality now?

This institution is morally bankrupt and should be torn down.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:20:00 UTC | #460965

sarith21's Avatar Comment 13 by sarith21

I'd rather have the priests shagging animals than kids, in all honesty. Anyway, if someone wants to shag a goat they should be welcome to it... provided of course, the goat's alright with it...

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:35:00 UTC | #460974

Justin Vasquez's Avatar Comment 14 by Justin Vasquez

I wonder who is leaking all this stuff.


It helps to actually read the article.

Texan lawyer Daniel Shea uncovered the document as part of his work for victims of abuse from Catholic priests in the US.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:45:00 UTC | #460978

sara g's Avatar Comment 15 by sara g

"You're taking it out of context. It doesn't say what it says." They're recycling their excuses for the bible.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:00:00 UTC | #460985

Nunbeliever's Avatar Comment 16 by Nunbeliever

Well, this is old news... Why do RD publish many years old articles???

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:17:00 UTC | #460995

Roy_H's Avatar Comment 17 by Roy_H

The old bugger must be carrying an onion in his pocket then

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100418/twl-pope-s-tearful-meeting-with-sex-abus-74199cf.html

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:52:00 UTC | #461011

Stonyground's Avatar Comment 18 by Stonyground

To me, the fact that this is an old article is not important. It has gained current relevance due to the subject matter having such a high profile at the moment. The RCC has been pathetically trying to blame everyone and his cat for their own crimes of deliberately harbouring the worst kinds of criminals. Some of their pathetic excuses such as the rapidly secularising society or internet porn simply don't stand up to the problem being around in the sixties and ealier.

I have also seen a you tube video that cites Vatican documents about child rape being issued during practically every period in the RCC's sordid 2000 year history. My apologies for not being able to provide a link at present.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:06:00 UTC | #461053

cheesedoff17's Avatar Comment 19 by cheesedoff17

Yes,it's old news for anglophones but the average french person knows nothing about it or even the depth of the problem.

It seems that the Catholic church has now become "the body of Christ"!

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:17:00 UTC | #461056

Mr DArcy's Avatar Comment 20 by Mr DArcy

I wonder who is leaking all this stuff.


His name is Cardinal Deepthroat, well renowned for his expertise in matters of a, hmm, sexual nature. More than that I cannot say as we wouldn't want to prejudice any future proceedings, now would we?

I doubt The Vatican is entirely monolithic. There must be people in high places who actually bother with the outside world. There must be at least one person in the Vatican who "trawls" the web for adverse criticism. This site will certainly be a port of call. Let's just call this person Linda Lovelace so as to preserve their anonymity.

Hi Linda! Have a great day now, d'ya hear!

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:23:00 UTC | #461058

Eventhorizon's Avatar Comment 21 by Eventhorizon

I'm just surprised that people are surprised. What did they think the church was going to do but protect itself at ANY cost?
The cases that have come to light are no doubt just the tip of the iceberg too. I dread to think what depravities the catholic church has hidden away that nobody will ever know about.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:27:00 UTC | #461060

MattHunX's Avatar Comment 22 by MattHunX

I've been wondering what other secret documents are in there. What other (potentially incriminating) information can they be holding.

Not just for this and the last century, but the centuries before that, what have they recorded or what writings have they obtained from somewhere else and hidden away from the world to protect themselves and their church and their power?

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:41:00 UTC | #461078

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 23 by Philoctetes

This may be a 40 year old document, but given that the edict of a pope is "Law", then the issue is not how old it is, but when was it cancelled.
As a crime, murder dates back at least to Moses and is still considered naughty despite the passage of some 2,500 years.
Is the RCC tolerance/encouragement of child rape because it is not specifically mentioned in the 10 Commandments? Perhaps because of the importance they place on:

5 You shall not bow down to them (Idols) or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:02:00 UTC | #461109

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 24 by God fearing Atheist

It may be 40 years old, but it is still extremely relevant. Read:- http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5466

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:36:00 UTC | #461126

AndrewP's Avatar Comment 25 by AndrewP

The weasel explanation is that also offered by TheresaTallis on the "The pope should stand trial" thread, viz arguing that "secrecy" is intended to apply only in the sense of internal protection, just as in the case of a confessional. That will be the legal defense should matters get that far (and I sincerely hope they do). Thus it's asserted to be an orthogonal issue to that of informing civil authority.

I do not buy this.

Perhaps the outcry will build to such a level that we can expect warrants to be issued by the Italian police for search and seizure of all documents residing in the Holy See. Except that they're a sovereign state. And except that they are already, or soon will be, squirelled away (Jesuits are smart people).

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 21:38:00 UTC | #461141

Arjen's Avatar Comment 26 by Arjen

8. Comment #481617 by at3p on April 19, 2010 at 12:50 pm

The Vatican should be turned into a big open air prison. Just build a big fence around it and lock those child-rapists up, along with their accomplices. I'm sorry for the rich architecture and art which could not be relocated from there... but it would be worth it.


NO! Are you mad? Have you never seen the Sistine Chapel? Or Michelangelo's Pieta? Or walked inside the dome of the St Pieter? They are stunningly beautiful. The Vatican should not be allowed to have such treasures! I say, strip it all away, turn the Vatican into a museum, use the proceeds to make a nice prison for those perverts and ban the pope and cardinals from ever setting foot in that place again.

Mon, 19 Apr 2010 23:06:00 UTC | #461165

Michael Gray's Avatar Comment 27 by Michael Gray

That it is an old article only enhances it's value.
For the apologist who kept speaking over Paula Kirby recently, especially.
------
Oh, and as for the notion of turning Vatican't City into a prison: there would not be anywhere enought room.
Even if one stacked the priests 10 high, there would not be enough.
(Even more so, if one pursues my idea of prosecuting those who have given money to the RCC, as having financed a real terrorist organisation.)

Tue, 20 Apr 2010 00:30:00 UTC | #461182

crusader234's Avatar Comment 28 by crusader234

Thats really wrong to do that. As well as perverting the coarse of justice, jailtime.

Tue, 20 Apr 2010 01:43:00 UTC | #461193

AndrewP's Avatar Comment 29 by AndrewP

[edited]
My back-of-the envelope calculation for the number of children abused only by Catholic priests comes out to be around 500,000 children worldwide, annually.

If anyone's interested I'll post how I arrived at that, and we can perhaps refine the number.

It may well be a factor of 5x too low, since research on sexual abuse of minors in general shows that greater than 80% of such abuse goes unreported. Here we can use a datapoint provided by TheresaTallis that abuse rates in society at large are about the same as those in the church. She justifies this assertion by stating that legal insurance rates for the laiety and the priesthood are comparable. I disagree with this statement for a couple of reasons, but I'll post my theory as to why, but again only if anyone's interested. For now I'll assume that it's also >80% unreported in the RCC. That's where the 5x comes from.

Here's another datapoint. The chances are approximately even (50/50) that any group of 16 Catholic priests contains at least one paedophile. Wonder how many are in the Curia? - lots!! and lots!! and lots!!

Hmm - poor Benedict. Trying to pass anti-paedophile measures with that lot hanging around your neck must be tough sledding. I'm beginning to see Theresa's point. Wolves guarding henhouses.

Time for a spring-clean, obviously. But where's the janitor?

Tue, 20 Apr 2010 02:46:00 UTC | #461201

infinitum17's Avatar Comment 30 by infinitum17

They need a Latinist! Can't even spell crimen sollicitationis right (or translate it).

And yeah, this is old news.

Tue, 20 Apr 2010 02:57:00 UTC | #461206