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← Bring the Pope to Justice

Bring the Pope to Justice - Comments

zpiff's Avatar Comment 1 by zpiff

Eloquent as always, and spot on!

Nothing will likely come out of this in terms of legal sentences. Nonetheless i think the next time this pope, or any pope, breaks the law he will not get away as easy...
small steps
/Z

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:01:00 UTC | #462386

louis14's Avatar Comment 3 by louis14

I wonder zpiff. Perhaps the moral zeitgeist is changing again.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:18:00 UTC | #462389

DamnDirtyApe's Avatar Comment 2 by DamnDirtyApe

In the leaders debate, all three party leaders said the pope is welcome to visit England.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:18:00 UTC | #462388

keithapm's Avatar Comment 4 by keithapm

Yes we should go for it. For nearly 1700yrs the Catholic Church has been little more than "a den of iniquity" a "nest of vipers". This will show them that no organisation is above the law, religious or otherwise.

What sickens me is the response of Catholics to this. Many are trying to defend the church by asking questions like, "if the church was guilty, why haven't the governments done anything?" As if that removes ANY of the culpability. Read that as the governments were too "respectful" (fearful of the churches influences over the voters) and looked the other way, therefore the church is innocent. Yes the states are very much to blame for not keeping a closer eye on the church, but they shouldn't had to have. The church always claimed moral authority over others, and yet now it's not to blame because states were naive enough to trust them? That doesn't absolve the church of any blame. A good example is the collusion with the church of the "pious" Irish governments of crimes. Yet the church still covered up the abuse, whether it was helped by the state or not. And you may notice that the current Irish government is paying the majority of reparations, which means we citizens are paying for them.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:36:00 UTC | #462391

Yorker's Avatar Comment 5 by Yorker

2. Comment #483151 by DamnDirtyApe

"In the leaders debate, all three party leaders said the pope is welcome to visit England."

Of course they did - even catholics are allowed to vote you know.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:41:00 UTC | #462392

Pseudoniempje's Avatar Comment 6 by Pseudoniempje

5. Comment #483155 by Yorker
Of course they did - even catholics are allowed to vote you know.

But there are way more non-catholics then catholics.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:48:00 UTC | #462393

MarcCountry's Avatar Comment 7 by MarcCountry

Well, Ratzinger can't be detained by the authorities if he doesn't leave the Vatican, so why not invite him? If he wants to walk into that waiting trap, all the better...

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:06:00 UTC | #462395

Adrian Bartholomew's Avatar Comment 8 by Adrian Bartholomew

Sorry to go off at a bit of a tangent here but I think the Catholic example of separate church run courts is exactly why I don’t want Shariah courts. These religious courts will not respect their boundaries. At the moment it’s only adult Muslim women potentially being abused by these local Shariah affairs but it isn’t hard to see a future where they get more pernicious. Let us LEARN from the Catholic scandal and don’t let something similar happen to young Muslim girls in the UK…

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:26:00 UTC | #462398

prettygoodformonkeys's Avatar Comment 9 by prettygoodformonkeys

the Vatican had invited the metastasis of the horror into its bosom
Ah, Hitchens.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:30:00 UTC | #462399

MAJORPAIN's Avatar Comment 10 by MAJORPAIN

I'm thinking the pope is hoping this will all just go away. Keep after them Christopher! Don't let up. Keep writing articles and keep getting in their faces. Don't let the pope get away with these crimes. I also loved the "organized crime" analogy. It is exactly the right one. The RCC is just another Mafia.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:40:00 UTC | #462400

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 11 by mordacious1

Developments since that time have appalled even the most diehard papal apologists by their rapidity and scale.


I'm not too sure this is true. Many of the diehard apologists are turning a blind eye toward what is happening. They're only appalled that anyone would attack the holy church in this manner.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:41:00 UTC | #462401

The Plc's Avatar Comment 12 by The Plc

Legend. Writes like an Angel but works for the Devil. This type of thing should have a real effect on the Vatician, as the CC are well aware of who Hitchens is. He's probably been mainstream journalisms biggest critic of the Church over the years.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:12:00 UTC | #462406

geru's Avatar Comment 13 by geru

Every time I read a headline like this I find it a bit easier to imagine a scenario where the Pope is actually brought to justice for what he's done. I can only hope they are having the same effect on people around the world.

The Pope is really like the mythical creatures who's strength is directly proportional to the amount of people who have faith in them, quite literally. As George Carlin said: "I have just as much authority as the Pope, I just have less people who believe it."

It would be great to see a situation where the Pope is confined to his own little kingdom because of warrants by courts investigating the scandal, seeing him sulking on his golden throne in some marble hall, with the villagers outside the Vatican's walls waving their pitchforks and torches :)

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:19:00 UTC | #462407

jcs's Avatar Comment 14 by jcs

And it still doesn't stop.

This week in Belgium:

Roger Vangheluwe, the bishop of Bruges, steps down because he personally also as bishop abused children. He probably also protected other abusive priests. This is currently being investigated, by the church itself!

First they claimed that no other bishop had known about it, but a priest said he informed cardinal Godfried Danneels in the 90's about it.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:36:00 UTC | #462409

Detlef's Avatar Comment 15 by Detlef

FYI The age of consent in the Vatican is set at 12 years... Unless there is a relationship of dependence, then age of consent is 15 years.

Fucking insane!

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/02/red-hot-catholic-love.html

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:41:00 UTC | #462410

Roland_F's Avatar Comment 16 by Roland_F

"In the leaders debate, all three party leaders said the pope is welcome to visit England."

Of course they did - even catholics are allowed to vote you know.

The petition to withdraw the invitation to the pope was signed by a mere 0.02% of British citizens, which means that 99.98% of the British population of every faith is extremely eager, and desperately waiting for Catholic papal guidance on moral issues like child protection, women rights, obstruction of justice, harboring criminals and the like.

The alternative would be the introduction of Sharia law as requested as ‘inevitable’ by the spiritual leader of the Church of England the A.B. of C. Rowan Williams. So the alternative moral (and legal !) guidance of the CoE for the UK would mean the legalized beating up of women within marriage, flogging anybody drinking alcohol, punish women by flogging for being rape victims, and allow “honor killings” of girls who dare to choose their boyfriends themselves etc …. all to get any grip on the obviously out of control situation in the UK via introduction of Sharia law.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:13:00 UTC | #462412

jel's Avatar Comment 17 by jel

11. Comment #483164 by mordacious1 on April 24, 2010 at 3:41 pm

Developments since that time have appalled even the most diehard papal apologists by their rapidity and scale.


I'm not too sure this is true. Many of the diehard apologists are turning a blind eye toward what is happening. They're only appalled that anyone would attack the holy church in this manner.


Unfortunately I think you're correct. catholics that I have spoken to spend more time defending their church and pope than they do considering the crimes. I find it appalling that so many are more than willing to see this as a concerted attack on their religion and think that they and their church are the victims.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:16:00 UTC | #462413

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 18 by Bonzai

Roland_F


The petition to withdraw the invitation to the pope was signed by a mere 0.02% of British citizens, which means that 99.98% of the British population of every faith is extremely eager, and desperately waiting for Catholic papal guidance on moral issues like child protection, women rights, obstruction of justice, harboring criminals and the like.


It doesn't follow. The 99.98% may not care enough, maybe they don't know about the petition, or maybe they haven't bothered to sign it thinking that it not have an effect, maybe they are counting on other people to sign, then there are of course some who really think that the papal visit is great. There are many reasons why people don't sign the petition.

I think it is probably true that in most cases, the people who actually sign petitions may only represent a small percentage of people who agree with the main points of the petitions. We all know that there are a lot more people who have a political opinion than those who bother to show up to vote. That's why "getting the votes out" is so important in election campaigns.

BTW, I don't think all Catholics, or even most Catholics would defend the Church on child molestation charges. We have to understand that the Catholics who actually bother to post a defense for the Church on internet forums, let alone riding into an atheist forum like RD.net with guns blazing, are Catholic activists. They do not represent the majority of everyday Catholics.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:29:00 UTC | #462414

at3p's Avatar Comment 19 by at3p

Hey, tell your catholic neighbors that each time they donate to churches, part of the money ends up helping priests abuse children in many ways, in many ways.

"Donate money or candy for the abuse of children"

And if the pope doesn't confess, the Vatican should be placed under embargo of all goods and services, since they are developing "weapons of mass violation".

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:09:00 UTC | #462417

Carl Sai Baba's Avatar Comment 20 by Carl Sai Baba

Sad that support systems for those who rape children are not yet perceived by the legal system as being eligible for international prosecution, while the crime of writing has made the cut more than once.

This mess really is overdue for a restructuring.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:15:00 UTC | #462418

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 21 by PrimeNumbers

I'm disgusted by Clegg, Brown and Cameron for not condeming Ratzinger on the debate. Surely, if they all "secretly" didn't want him to visit, but were worried about loosing votes, they could all have agreed to say they don't want him - I mean who else are the Catholics of the UK going to vote for, the BNP?

We have leaders in the UK with no balls and no spine. By not saying they'll stop Ratzinger, they're as good as supporting child abuse, among all the others who are still Catholics and support the RCC with their money and numbers. Evil just doesn't begin to describe it.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:23:00 UTC | #462420

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 22 by Stafford Gordon

The plot thins!

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:30:00 UTC | #462421

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 23 by Stafford Gordon

PrimeNumbers: Vis Clegg at al it's votes.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:32:00 UTC | #462422

The Plc's Avatar Comment 24 by The Plc

Well, the leaders did outline exactly how they disagreed with the Pope, which was pretty much on every issue. Cameron took the chance to suck up to all the religious though.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:59:00 UTC | #462429

blakjack's Avatar Comment 25 by blakjack

Quote PrimeNumbers: "I'm disgusted by Clegg, Brown and Cameron for not condeming Ratzinger on the debate."

Again they all missed the point in thinking that pandering to the religious will win them votes. On the contrary. If one of them had the guts to condemn the Pope's visit, he would almost certainly have gained far more votes than he would lose.

Jack

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:19:00 UTC | #462432

SaintStephen's Avatar Comment 26 by SaintStephen

I think Christopher Hitchens has found his true calling! lol

The Catholic prayers asking for God to silence this eloquent, most troublesome gadfly are certain to mount in number, no pun intended.

Maybe Dog the Bounty Hunter could be put on retainer...

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:21:00 UTC | #462433

ECCENTRIC*ECLECTUS's Avatar Comment 27 by ECCENTRIC*ECLECTUS

In 2003,after a long and drawn out process,I received an apology from the Australian Marist Brothers,for what happened to me as a young boy.Whenever I read articles by Christopher Hitchens, calling on the Catholic hierarchy to take responsibilty for their crimes, I am grateful to this gifted writer for what he has done and continues to do.The description of the rotting fish,symbolising the decay of the Catholic church,was a Hitchens classic.Can you imagine decomposing fish heads being deposited under pews,in the confessionals,in vases,behind statues in Catholic churches around the world.....what perfect symbolism.....

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:23:00 UTC | #462435

Stonyground's Avatar Comment 28 by Stonyground

Even if the Pope isn't arrested and brought to justice it would be great to see him forced to skulk inside the Vatican, unable to go outside for fear of international law.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:25:00 UTC | #462437

quarecuss's Avatar Comment 29 by quarecuss

Christopher Hitchens fine tunes the case for arrest of the pope with each new article. Now I have to decide whether to send this Newsweek one to all my Catholic friends and relations who grow more defensively silent by the day on the abuse scandal. Problem is, "Hitchens" is a dirty word (though "Christopher" is not!) to most of them. I doubt they would read it. We need more insider accounts like those of ex-priest, Patrick "The Fixer" Wall, to undermine their defenses but he's a relatively small fry. Any cardinals or archbishops out there with Wall's integrity?
If only the arrest could be effected, it might open the floodgates, but with disappointing reactions like Clegg's (I had some hopes for him), the prospects don't look so good.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:41:00 UTC | #462441

Rodger T's Avatar Comment 30 by Rodger T

Unfortunately,the so called "faithful" will defend these paedophiles ,as they only see it as an attack on the church.
They are unable to see the true horror of these crimes committed by priests as anything other than an individuals "sins".
Hitchens as usual is 100% correct.
Rotten to the core.

I`m with SaintStephen lets get Dog the Bounty Hunter on the case.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 19:59:00 UTC | #462451