This site is not maintained. Click here for the new website of Richard Dawkins.

← Ministers apologise for insult to Pope

Ministers apologise for insult to Pope - Comments

Skeptic Pete's Avatar Comment 1 by Skeptic Pete

Excellent news.

I imagine the Vatican is getting very nervous about this visit, as it well should.

Unlike last year's World (Catholic) Youth Day held in Sydney Australia with the taxpayers forking out millions of dollars and virtually closing Sydney Harbour so these archaic old men can preach intolerance and bigotry to our youth.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:47:00 UTC | #462458

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 2 by mordacious1

*falls off chair laughing*

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:48:00 UTC | #462459

irvine.intervention's Avatar Comment 4 by irvine.intervention

All this appeasing the pope and his minions shit makes me too angry to be coherent.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:52:00 UTC | #462461

mjwemdee's Avatar Comment 3 by mjwemdee

The Rt Rev Malcolm McMahon, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Nottingham, was astonished and angered by the proposals.

He said: “This is appalling. You don’t invite someone to your country and then disrespect them in this way."

I'm sorry. I don't remember inviting this pathetic human being to my country.

On the other hand, I have to say it feels increasingly as if Whitehall is in the hands of juvenile delinquents.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:52:00 UTC | #462460

InYourFaceNewYorker's Avatar Comment 5 by InYourFaceNewYorker

This is horrible. And the Pope looks like Yoda.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 20:59:00 UTC | #462462

arwelroberts's Avatar Comment 6 by arwelroberts

From the BBC's website - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8642404.stm

"It suggests Benedict XVI could show his hard line on the sensitive issue of child abuse allegations against Roman Catholic priests by "sacking dodgy bishops" and launching a helpline for abused children."

Now I hope everyone can see why the memo caused such offence..........

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:00:00 UTC | #462464

gcarrison's Avatar Comment 8 by gcarrison

Why the rush to apologize?

This 'Brainstorm' seemed to bring up some fantastic ideas in my opinion. The catholic church has come under much criticism lately, and the ideas put forward from this brainstorm seem to reflect the opinion of people who second guess the way the Vatican goes about its business.

Bravo i say to the brainstorm, i only wish we lived with a government who were not in such a rush to apologize or feel ashamed by the way that some or alot of its people do and should think of the catholic church

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:02:00 UTC | #462466

javb222's Avatar Comment 7 by javb222

Has the full list been leaked?

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:02:00 UTC | #462465

Cartomancer's Avatar Comment 10 by Cartomancer

This is fantastic! Just what the Vatican needs - a high-level diplomatic snub to show how we really think about their dangerous, anti-human, backward, immoral and thoroughly criminal activities.

My opinion of Whitehall civil servants has just skyrocketed (which was a tricky thing to achieve, given that I've been madly in love with one for the last decade).

The truly appalling thing is that there are people out there who regard this as anything but a well-deserved snub, and could capitulate so cravenly to a man and an organization responsible for untold death, discrimination, suffering and mental anguish in the world today.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:21:00 UTC | #462470

nalfeshnee's Avatar Comment 9 by nalfeshnee

It would help the Pope's media profile immensely if he didn't look, so, well unsavoury.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:21:00 UTC | #462469

theinquisitor's Avatar Comment 11 by theinquisitor

How about issuing a revised memo applauding the church's homophobia, sexism, anti-choice, pro-child rapist stance?

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:27:00 UTC | #462473

Ron Millam's Avatar Comment 12 by Ron Millam

The Rt Rev Malcolm McMahon, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Nottingham, was astonished and angered by the proposals.
He said: ...“It’s outlandish and outrageous to assume that any of the ideas are in any way suitable for the Pope.”


Support for gay marriage; endorsing condom use; taking a harder line on child abuse; dismissal of bishops involved in the coverup of child abuse; launching a helpline for abused children; etc; etc.

The Rt Rev Malcolm McMahon is absolutely right -- not one of these ideas is suitable for the Pope. How about a new Inquisition and a new round of witch burnings for anyone attacking the RCC? Now those are issues Cardinal Ratman could sink his fangs into.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:32:00 UTC | #462475

Kmita's Avatar Comment 13 by Kmita

You know what they say about the nail that sticks out...

It has its balls hammered by the apologists.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:39:00 UTC | #462476

Ivan The Not So Bad's Avatar Comment 14 by Ivan The Not So Bad

What a fuss.

Anyone would think the government had just accused them of child rape or something.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:46:00 UTC | #462479

Stewart's Avatar Comment 16 by Stewart

I'm not quite sure what this really means, though the rush to apologise is despicable. I'm hoping it means that the gloves are coming off and people who might once have just bought into automatic respect for the pope are refusing to give it now that the full dimensions of how undeserving he is of any respect are starting to become clear. I'm also hopeful that push will come to shove soon, even if not during the UK visit. If someone does attempt to serve him with non-frivolous legal papers and the only reason it goes no further is political intervention, that will also cause political fall-out. There is a ball rolling and the impetus may be diverted, but it's not simply going away. Those who have been dismissive of the possibility of anything happening in this direction are those who are unable to imagine it. Those capable of imagining it are the ones most likely to make it succeed, if it is actually possible. Which, of course, it is, for no human institution lasts forever. The operative question, therefore, is not whether the RC church will cease to exist, but merely when and under what circumstances that will happen. Will the damage it is now suffering be a factor in its demise or does it have centuries or millennia left in which to suffer other disasters? It has the material wealth to withstand a great many lawsuits, but the damage to its credibility will surely be greater in its ultimate effect.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:53:00 UTC | #462482

Quine's Avatar Comment 15 by Quine

What? No proposed sleep-over in The Tower?

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:53:00 UTC | #462481

Shergar's Avatar Comment 17 by Shergar

"The Rt Rev Malcolm McMahon, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Nottingham, was astonished and angered by the proposals.
He said: “This is appalling..... blah blah blah"

Note to the Rt(Retarded?) Rev McMahon - This is NOT an example of'Appalling' - PUT YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER.

No child was injured, abused, humiliated or raped during the production of this list

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:56:00 UTC | #462483

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 18 by Philoctetes

It begs the question: what is the real agenda behind the Pope's visit?
Is it fair to assume that it is part of an effort to spread their ideas and recruit more followers, while strengthening opposition to individual sexuality (unless it involves children), opposing scientific research, encouraging the rise in birth rate and the transmission of STDs. Oh and keeping women in their place.

After Lies, illegal wars, intrusive surveillance and general managerial incompetence I was always going to find it difficult to vote for a continuation of this government. Now that they wish everyone to see them as appeasers of bigoted unfounded opinion and forgiving of a chosen group of pederasts, I find it impossible. One assumes that in the opinion of their election strategists that they accept they will gain more votes from the RCC and people of faith in general than they will from secularists.
I just cannot get the biblical word "venal" out of my head

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:00:00 UTC | #462485

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 19 by Philoctetes

I presume the reluctance of JR to graciously grant audience to victims of his priests' abuse is the fear that one of them may have a writ about their person

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:04:00 UTC | #462486

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 20 by mordacious1

Well, Whitehall should also apologize to god, because the UK caused the volcano in Iceland to erupt:

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/251526

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:11:00 UTC | #462488

Saganic Rites's Avatar Comment 21 by Saganic Rites

The last paragraph of the full article regarding who would, and wouldn't be considered for an invite to meet his Lowliness;

Wayne Rooney, the footballer, who was married in a Catholic Church, is considered to be a negative influence, as are Madonna, the singer, and Richard Dawkins, the prominent atheist professor.


Professor of Atheism?

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:11:00 UTC | #462489

Quine's Avatar Comment 22 by Quine

Comment #483247 by Stewart:

Will the damage it is now suffering be a factor in its demise or does it have centuries or millennia left in which to suffer other disasters?
It will keep going for a long time, but it might stop growing. The Pope can take it back to a hard core of strict Latin form and blame all this on Vatican II. That would fit his personal politics. On the other hand, those Bishops who have not been caught up in abuse allegations may band together and pressure the Pope to step down and be replaced by more of a figurehead. That would play well in the USA where many Catholics ignore the Pope on issues like birth control, anyway.

Either way, the RCC is not going away soon. Oh well.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:14:00 UTC | #462491

robzrob's Avatar Comment 23 by robzrob

Astonishing. That shock and apology, etc, etc should be pouring out at seemingly reasonable proposals.

But then, reason doesn't come into religion or politics, does it?

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:21:00 UTC | #462492

Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 24 by Cook@Tahiti

How about a visit to a psychiatric ward or prison? 'We'd like you to bless this cell here... just step inside...bit further..."

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:28:00 UTC | #462494

MarcCountry's Avatar Comment 25 by MarcCountry

Personally, I think it's time Ratzinger's involvement with the Nazis was looked into a little deeper... people seem all too willing to accept the story that he was an unenthusiastic member, without there really being much evidence that such was the case...

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:40:00 UTC | #462495

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 26 by Bonzai

MarcCountry

I hope you are not being serious. Let's focus on the real misdeed and leave that old history alone. He was just a child then and he hadn't had much of a choice. How long should he be hounded for that for Zeus' sake? Let's have some class.

I would hope that Christians don't have a monopoly on mercy and understanding as they like to claim.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:55:00 UTC | #462497

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 27 by PrimeNumbers

On the ideal visit, Ratzinger will see the inside of a jail cell and have time to contemplate why covering up child rape is wrong.

It seems some of the concern, from the BBC report, is that "Perhaps most damaging of all, it could leave an impression that the Pope might be regarded as a figure of fun less than five months before his state visit to Britain."

So, as well as rightly criticizing him over child-rape cover-up, let's make utter fun of him. I want pope-on-a-rope-soap! I'm sure many comedians will want to ridicule Ratzinger and those that support him.

I'd like it to be utterly embarrasing for anyone to admit to being Catholic and a proud statement of morality to say you're an ex-catholic.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:07:00 UTC | #462498

InYourFaceNewYorker's Avatar Comment 28 by InYourFaceNewYorker

When the Pope is in jail, hopefully he won't drop his soap in the shower. ;)

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:29:00 UTC | #462501

Bonzai's Avatar Comment 29 by Bonzai

When the Pope is in jail, hopefully he won't drop his soap in the shower. ;)
..and a few comments like that.

I am honestly feeling a bit uneasy about the feeding frenzy on a frail old man. It makes the whole thing sounds too personal and it makes the atheists here look like a bunch of hyenas licking their chops.

We should be talking about the power and privilege of the RC Church as an institution.

I think many religious people, and even many Catholics would find the Church's action indefensible. Let's drive home the point instead of getting into innuendos about Ratzinger the person. It will only distract and may actually sways the wavering religious people towards a more sympathetic view of the RC Church. Beating up on an old guy never makes you look good.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:33:00 UTC | #462503

mordacious1's Avatar Comment 30 by mordacious1

Bonzai

I'm more upset at IYFNY's comment insulting Yoda.

If the Ratz was just put in charge of an out-of-control organization and was taking flak for it, I would agree with you. But he was instrumental in covering up and propigating the rape and torture of children. He deserves everything coming his way.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:42:00 UTC | #462505