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The Video That Ended a Career - Comments

Monkey Man's Avatar Comment 1 by Monkey Man

If we accept slavery was wrong we have no biblical authority to denounce homosexuality! If we start comparing the bible with scientific evidence, how can we possibly prove the resurrection? :/

Sun, 02 May 2010 17:35:00 UTC | #464995

Malcolm1958's Avatar Comment 2 by Malcolm1958

I do not know why anyone would be surprised by this. It is already quite clear that for some religious people that evidence doesn't matter - only their beliefs. Anything that contradicts this must be wrong by definition.

Sun, 02 May 2010 17:36:00 UTC | #464997

JHJEFFERY's Avatar Comment 3 by JHJEFFERY

Gee. What happened to "teach the controversy?"

The RFS is in Orlando, where I live, and I have used its well stocked library several times. I even interviewed some of the people there for a psychology project. Never knew they were this nutty.

As a lawyer, I am tempted to offer the good doctor my services, but he might object to my religious affiliation (FSM).

JHJ

Sun, 02 May 2010 17:56:00 UTC | #465004

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 4 by Jos Gibbons

We all know there are plenty of Christians who can countenance evolution, including many theologians, even if what they actually concede to evolutionary science isn't as much as the scientifically well-informed should. But notice the especial irony of such tolerance not being exhibited, either in the official dogma or individuals' views, of a tradition which calls itself "Reformed" theology. This shows that there is no more reason to expect the extent to which a denomination lives in the real world in an up to date manner to be reflected by its name or any other claims it makes about that matter, just as "modernist" loses credibility when we note the existence of terms like postmodernist. It is also revealing that the most prominent organisation defending the compatabilist view, BioLogos (run by Francis Collins, the leading espouser of the idea), was forced to withdraw some such material, much like Comedy Central's recent South Park incident. John Polkinghorne, another major adherent of NOMA, will speak on that subject to the Oxford Physics Society soon. I intend to attend and to quiz him on this incident, and see if he can still hold that the practical reality of how religion is conducted fits with his account of it.

Sun, 02 May 2010 18:02:00 UTC | #465007

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 5 by Border Collie

They just did him the biggest favor they could possibly do.

Sun, 02 May 2010 18:10:00 UTC | #465010

AndrewP's Avatar Comment 6 by AndrewP

When your God can live only in the gaps, prepare to be squeeeeeeezed.

Sun, 02 May 2010 18:23:00 UTC | #465017

Rich Wiltshir's Avatar Comment 7 by Rich Wiltshir

Another religoon cover-up?

Uncanny how religions find themselves belittled for the way they police their internal affairs...

Sun, 02 May 2010 18:48:00 UTC | #465029

The Plc's Avatar Comment 8 by The Plc

Well, I suppose Mr Waltke is now proving his own thesis, at least. As a group kicks out it's more moderate and reasonable members, it's overall position will continue to harden and become marginalised from regular society, in a sense becoming a cult.

It's still very hard for a person from Europe to comprehend this cult of creationism, I had no idea of the controversy surrounding evolution while I was growing up, even in a highly religious country (Ireland). It must be incredibly depressing for American rationalist and science friends.

Sun, 02 May 2010 18:51:00 UTC | #465031

Opisthokont's Avatar Comment 9 by Opisthokont

I cannot be the only person here comparing this incident to the invented slights at the heart of Ben Stein's awful documentary. I would savour the irony if it were not so painful.

Sun, 02 May 2010 18:53:00 UTC | #465032

poejavlo's Avatar Comment 10 by poejavlo

Expelled!

Sun, 02 May 2010 19:02:00 UTC | #465039

scottishgeologist's Avatar Comment 11 by scottishgeologist

To me the interesting thing about this is the organisation itself

RTS is not seen as an uber-fundy place among evangelicals - it would fit the "conservative mainstream" model. The sort of place that your "cool calvinist" logs on to regularly. In terms of its worldwide impact and influence, it has and has had some real heavy hitters on its faculty - people like Ligon Duncan for instance

There is a strong connection between RTS and Scotland - Ligon Duncan did his doctorate in Edinburgh for instance.

RTS is also heavily involved in the "Twin Lakes Fellowship" which is modelled on the Scottish "Crieff Fellowship" for evangelical ministers

There are many pastors on this side of the Atlantic who will be heavily associated with or influenced by RTS (and the Twin Lakes Fellowship)

What this issue (Waltke's resignation) shows, is that despite what a lot of the "reasonable" conservative evangelicals say, there is obviously no room whatsoever for evolution. Not even theistic evolution. Try it and you're out , pal.

Now what I would like to know, is has this trickled across the Atlantic? So that when certain preachers here use woolly expressions like "room for a variety of views regarding the age of the earth" etc what they really mean is "YEC only"

I have often felt that, as the traditional libera denominations shrink, that what will be left will be a hard core of fundy evangelicalism that has coalesced round a doctrinaire kernel of absolutely non-negotiable dogma.

It certainly looks like that is the way it is going if this Waltke incident is anything to go by

:-)
SG

Sun, 02 May 2010 19:04:00 UTC | #465041

Duff's Avatar Comment 12 by Duff

The comments section on the Higher Ed site is quite interesting. From the ridiculous to the sublime. Worth a look.

Sun, 02 May 2010 19:34:00 UTC | #465047

scottishgeologist's Avatar Comment 13 by scottishgeologist

Duff

The comments are very interesting. Some of them take the view, "what did he expect?"

And when you read RTS' "Reformed Tradition" web page at:

http://www.rts.edu/site/about/reformed_tradition/reformed_tradition.aspx


It clearly states:


Students are taught to take every thought - theological, philosophical, historical, scientific, artistic, etc. - captive and make it obedient to Christ under the guidance of Scripture (II Cor. 10:4-5). You will never find our professors questioning the absolute authority of the Bible. Instead, we face the challenges of living for Christ by submitting ourselves absolutely to the Old and New Testaments as our ultimate authority.


(my emphasis)

He should have known....

:-)
SG

Sun, 02 May 2010 19:50:00 UTC | #465053

Quine's Avatar Comment 14 by Quine

Comment #485824 by Opisthokont:

I cannot be the only person here comparing this incident to the invented slights at the heart of Ben Stein's awful documentary. I would savour the irony if it were not so painful.
Comment #485831 by poejavlo:
Expelled!
Sweet. This was bound to happen. We know Biblical scholars inside their studies are converging on the mythical nature of the texts. At the same time, the facts keep intruding from the outside the walls, and only some of them can withstand the cognitive dissonance and keep quiet. Tip of the hat to Waltke for honesty on at least the outside facts part.

Sun, 02 May 2010 20:04:00 UTC | #465058

Crazycharlie's Avatar Comment 15 by Crazycharlie

Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee..

Waltke had a flash of reason that was more than his seminary could handle.

Ah well. He's better off.

Sun, 02 May 2010 20:04:00 UTC | #465059

chawinwords's Avatar Comment 16 by chawinwords

Ah yes, the punishment for daring even a sentence worth of critical thinking -- the true sign of the apostate -- thinking. But that is what excommunication is there for -- to punish and prevent critical thought, by any organized religion, to any form of critical thought (the art of doubt).

Sun, 02 May 2010 20:17:00 UTC | #465067

Crazycharlie's Avatar Comment 17 by Crazycharlie

However, Waltke is still a loon, though less loony than the leaders of his seminary, because the article goes on to say....

'Waltke could not be reached for comment on the situation. He did issue a joint statement with the head of BioLogos in which he stood behind the substance of what he said in the video, but also said that he wished he could have provided more context, particularly his view that it is possible to believe in evolution and also believe "in the inerrancy of Scripture."'

Believe in evolution AND an inerrant Bible...

Which means, of course, you can believe in anything.

Sun, 02 May 2010 20:31:00 UTC | #465073

morgan.frank@bigpond.com's Avatar Comment 18 by morgan.frank@bigpond.com

Comment #485824 by Opisthokont:

I cannot be the only person here comparing this incident to the invented slights at the heart of Ben Stein's awful documentary. I would savour the irony if it were not so painful.

Comment #485831 by poejavlo:
Expelled!

I have to agree with you and Quine on this. Here they are running around bleating about IDiots supposedly losing their jobs because of their beliefs, yet as soon as one of their group supports evolution, he gets the sack. Of course, they won't see/admit their hypocracy on this issue.

Sun, 02 May 2010 20:50:00 UTC | #465079

MAJORPAIN's Avatar Comment 19 by MAJORPAIN

They know the inerrant bible is incompatible with evolution. They know it is a slippery slope they don't want their followers to start down because they know what will happen. This guy Waltke has probably slid all the way down but was still doing the CYA dance by saying that they're compatible. He probably knows better. His cult knows to shut these moderates up otherwise they become posters on RD.net.

You guys are welcome here anytime!

Sun, 02 May 2010 21:44:00 UTC | #465092

Quine's Avatar Comment 20 by Quine

Comment #485884 by MAJORPAIN:

You guys are welcome here anytime!
Yes, it has happened before, and I hope it happens some more.

Sun, 02 May 2010 21:47:00 UTC | #465093

HolyPinkUnicorn's Avatar Comment 21 by HolyPinkUnicorn

At least he wasn't burned alive or stoned to death.

Sun, 02 May 2010 22:21:00 UTC | #465099

Tim Hendrix's Avatar Comment 22 by Tim Hendrix

I hope this is on-topic. I think it is.
Given the history of the pesent-day Bible (that it is a specific collection of old gospels and stories picked to establish a particular theology - correct me if I'm wrong!, is there a Christian sect that has recently gone back through all the available documents, picking different stories using more 'modern' criteria (in the light of current scientific knowledge, and created a new different bible?

Sun, 02 May 2010 23:51:00 UTC | #465120

Tim Hendrix's Avatar Comment 23 by Tim Hendrix

I hope this is on-topic. I think it is.
Given the history of the pesent-day Bible (that it is a specific collection of old gospels and stories picked to establish a particular theology - correct me if I'm wrong!), is there a Christian sect that has recently gone back through all the available documents, picking different stories using more 'modern' criteria (in the light of current scientific knowledge), and created a new different bible?

Sun, 02 May 2010 23:53:00 UTC | #465121

neander's Avatar Comment 24 by neander

Can we get a link to the video£

Mon, 03 May 2010 00:26:00 UTC | #465129

Papalinton's Avatar Comment 25 by Papalinton

19. Comment #485884 by MAJORPAIN

I wonder if Waltke has done a tour of Ken Ham's Creation Museum? Perhaps the RTS (Rabid Theological Seminary?) should be included as an exhibit in the museum, being the dinosaur it is.

How prophetic of Waltke; he is better off out of that cultic seminary.

Mon, 03 May 2010 00:47:00 UTC | #465136

Roland_F's Avatar Comment 26 by Roland_F

When Bio-Logos is expelling the posting of an article about the acceptance of evolution from their web-page, they should also expel Francis Collins their own (founder, director ?) from their ranks for doing the same.

Comment #485865 by Crazycharlie : Believe in evolution AND an inerrant Bible...

Which means, of course, you can believe in anything.

You can receive even the 1 million GBP funded Templeton price like Mr. Ayala did for promoting believe in an omni-benevolent god and blame all imperfect design and all suffering on the bad evil evolution and not on god. This might work for a creator deity leaving his creation alone after initial start up. But I still don’t know how Ayala thinks he can reconcile omni-benevolence of a personal, daily intervening god with doing nothing against imperfection and suffering cause by evolution.

So attempts of squaring the circle is still failing whether approached from the science site or from the biblical study site ala B.K. Waltke.

Mon, 03 May 2010 03:53:00 UTC | #465163

Roger Stanyard's Avatar Comment 27 by Roger Stanyard

FilthyWitness asks

I hope this is on-topic. I think it is.
Given the history of the pesent-day Bible (that it is a specific collection of old gospels and stories picked to establish a particular theology - correct me if I'm wrong!), is there a Christian sect that has recently gone back through all the available documents, picking different stories using more 'modern' criteria (in the light of current scientific knowledge), and created a new different bible£


Yes, unfortunately. The fundies are behind it so it's exceedingly selective and about as bigoted as you can imagine.

Conservapedia is re-writing the Bible for US fundies - taking out all the "liberal bias" and replacing it with American wingnut doctrine. Conservapedia, though, is also re-writing the whole of human knowledge and experience to get rid of any "liberal bias". Not surprisingly there are a pile f choice quotes from Conservapedia on Fundies Say the Darndest Things.

There;s big money behind it all as well. Conservapedia is headed up by bAndy Schlafly (otherwise an obscure non-entity). Mummy (Phylis Schlafly - a millionairess wingnut who made her money through marriage) is the prime source of dosh.

Does anyone here get te feeling that the USA has lost the plot£

Mon, 03 May 2010 07:18:00 UTC | #465200

scottishgeologist's Avatar Comment 28 by scottishgeologist

neander

Cant find the full video, but here is a YouTube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0h82CWPwe0&feature=related

Warning: it also features Ken Ham, so maybe count to 10 and do some deep breathing first...... :-)))))


;-)
SG

Mon, 03 May 2010 07:34:00 UTC | #465205

JHaikney's Avatar Comment 29 by JHaikney

Proof, if any was needed, that conservative biggots aren't biggoted enough for the fundies. And the most delicious piece of irony in that article? "Religious credentials". I believe in superman. Does that give me "superhero credentials" and make me an expert on superman? Would I be kicked off superhero websites if I made a video saying that I think superman, according to the evidence we have before us, is actually a fictional and rather dull TV show?

Mon, 03 May 2010 08:33:00 UTC | #465218

at3p's Avatar Comment 30 by at3p

Actually pushing for religious dogma and science to come one is a very very bad idea. The religious fanatics need to be isolated (sorry USA) so they can "grow" on their own and become a pure example of imbecilic behavior to other people and eventually to later generations; the believers are the idiots so we must wait for them to do idiotic things which will stimulate the dormant rational part of their brains into changing their beliefs.

THE best way to diminish faith is by ridicule and laughter, by not taking their beliefs seriously. So creationism and evolution in the same pot only leads to creationism gaining more respect, which is stupid.

Mon, 03 May 2010 09:45:00 UTC | #465239