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← Somali teenager 'tried to set off car bomb in US'

Somali teenager 'tried to set off car bomb in US' - Comments

drhat's Avatar Comment 1 by drhat

Excuse me, but why is it legal and seen as OK for the FBI to encourage, act out deceptively and give equipment, albeit dud and false equipment, for this kid to commit a crime, when before, all he had were intentions.

I am against religion, all of it..But is the point now that we have to be dishonest and deceptive in order to fell these people, trick them so to speak? I'm personally not okay with that.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:03:57 UTC | #554267

SourTomatoSand's Avatar Comment 2 by SourTomatoSand

Really? Intentions, that's all he had? Like the many other times that this has happened, the person in question was seeking out an arms dealer, so the FBI provided a false one. If the FBI hadn't done so, this individual most likely would have found a real arms dealer and set off a real bomb.

The FBI allows it to play through because "attempted" terrorism is a lot better a charge than "conspiracy to commit," and is a lot easier to prosecute.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:08:58 UTC | #554268

Merco's Avatar Comment 3 by Merco

But is the point now that we have to be dishonest and deceptive in order to fell these people, trick them so to speak?

Yes. It's perfectly okay to trick terrorists in order to catch them in the act.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:10:18 UTC | #554270

Aflacduck's Avatar Comment 4 by Aflacduck

Comment 3 by Merco :

But is the point now that we have to be dishonest and deceptive in order to fell these people, trick them so to speak?

Yes. It's perfectly okay to trick terrorists in order to catch them in the act.

I agree. I would rather have the FBI trick some guy, as opposed to watching 100 people blow up on the news.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:22:03 UTC | #554276

TIKI AL's Avatar Comment 5 by TIKI AL

I think the FBI actions were fine.

However, since the invention of Viagra, police women dressing up as hookers in bingo parking lots is just not fair.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:22:41 UTC | #554277

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 6 by AtheistEgbert

Comment 1 by drhat :

Excuse me,

You're excused.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:33:53 UTC | #554283

Chrisss212's Avatar Comment 7 by Chrisss212

i like the use of "faith-head" in the title. it should be used more often.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:39:52 UTC | #554286

drhat's Avatar Comment 8 by drhat

To most of you:

Yes, I genuinely think that the position you hold on this is questionable. I am fully willing to learn and I'm not set in stone, but currently though this seems a bit dodgy to me. Please help me understand as one would expect you would do in a place like this.

To AtheistEgbert:

What?

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:42:59 UTC | #554289

green and dying's Avatar Comment 9 by green and dying

drhat, I thought the same as you at first. I don't think the article is clear enough about what happened with the undercover FBI people for me to make up my mind, though.

But I like reading about terrorism attempts that get foiled, it makes me less scared of terrorism.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:50:55 UTC | #554292

Peter Watkinson's Avatar Comment 10 by Peter Watkinson

@drhat

The Washing Post explains that "Authorities allowed the plot to proceed in order to build up enough evidence to charge the suspect with attempt."

The link is Feds: Somali-born teen plotted car-bombing in Ore, which gives a more detailed account of the events.

Peter

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:51:35 UTC | #554293

Vicktor's Avatar Comment 11 by Vicktor

One down, one billion to go. Just kidding... one million to go. :)

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:55:00 UTC | #554294

vega's Avatar Comment 12 by vega

Thank you FBI.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:55:02 UTC | #554295

the great teapot's Avatar Comment 13 by the great teapot

I am with drhat on this one. Entrapment sucks and should be considered a crime in itself. We only have the entrapers word for it they did not use illegal means to coerce the entraped. I bet the KGB used entrapment a lot.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:10:46 UTC | #554303

Fouad Boussetta's Avatar Comment 14 by Fouad Boussetta

He wanted to kill "infidels"... What a fucking asshole...

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:22:13 UTC | #554307

the great teapot's Avatar Comment 15 by the great teapot

Although he looks guilty to me.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:27:18 UTC | #554316

Don Quijote's Avatar Comment 16 by Don Quijote

@ drhat

SourTomatoSand sums it up perfectly. If the FBI came to you with all the equipement to bomb a railway station, would you do it? Intention is what it´s all about. If the police catch somebody on the internt looking to find children for sex, this is not entrapment. These people have the intent. How, I wonder are these security organizations going to protect us without our support? I for one am glad that the people of Portland could have their tree lighting ceremony without being blown to bits.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:58:03 UTC | #554337

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 17 by AtheistEgbert

Comment 13 by the great teapot :

I am with drhat on this one. Entrapment sucks and should be considered a crime in itself. We only have the entrapers word for it they did not use illegal means to coerce the entraped. I bet the KGB used entrapment a lot.

Are you one of those 'liberals' people who want to treat terrorists 'nicely'? Do you think that the bomb should have been a real one, would that make you feel better?

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:01:57 UTC | #554339

Neil5150's Avatar Comment 18 by Neil5150

I agree hooker / drug entrapment is very suspect, however conspiring to kill people is a very different story....

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:04:20 UTC | #554341

Big Gus's Avatar Comment 19 by Big Gus

Comment 13 by the great teapot :

I am with drhat on this one. Entrapment sucks and should be considered a crime in itself. We only have the entrapers word for it they did not use illegal means to coerce the entraped. I bet the KGB used entrapment a lot.

I could see your point if they had sold him some pot and then busted him for being in possession of it, but this guy wanted to blow people up and had they not provided him with a dud he would of eventually got the real deal from somewhere and real people would of been killed. I've no doubt that his intention was to go through with the plan, having also read the link Peter provided, you need to book yourself a ticket back to the real world. I doubt very much that they just picked him at random and then encouraged him to start planning.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:05:41 UTC | #554342

SourTomatoSand's Avatar Comment 20 by SourTomatoSand

I believe the people who are claiming "entrapment" might need to look up the term. The US legal concept of "entrapment" only applies when the person wasn't intending to commit the crime, but was coerced or convinced by a law officer, or if an official of the law convinces someone that an illegal act is actually legal, and the person then commits said act, thinking it legal. The US law definition does not apply in this case, and therefore the FBI has not committed entrapment as defined in their jurisdiction.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:23:28 UTC | #554355

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 21 by aquilacane

Tricked? Hardly. He had outs. In his mind he was killing children alongside their parents. I am glad he was got; by any method.

We don't need to ever see this person again. They have proven themselves capable of the most violent and disturbed behaviour. There is no suitable form of assurance medically or otherwise to ensure he will not revisit that same level of sheer and utter madness. The key to whichever door he ends up behind, should be lost.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:26:12 UTC | #554358

the great teapot's Avatar Comment 22 by the great teapot

How do we know they had not convinced him, sour Tomato sand, that he was not commiting a crime. They are on very dodgy ground here.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:57:07 UTC | #554375

SourTomatoSand's Avatar Comment 23 by SourTomatoSand

You're joking, right? They convinced him that blowing people up isn't a crime?

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:07:05 UTC | #554384

Aflacduck's Avatar Comment 24 by Aflacduck

Comment 22 by the great teapot :

How do we know they had not convinced him, sour Tomato head, that he was not commiting a crime. They are on very dodgy ground here.

So you believe that the FBI could have managed to convince a man that killing people with a bomb was not a crime, just for the sake of arresting someone?

Aah tomato beat me to it.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:08:40 UTC | #554386

the great teapot's Avatar Comment 25 by the great teapot

Bush convinced many GIs shock and awe wasn't a crime, regardless of the civilian death toll, it can be done, and easily.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:10:38 UTC | #554387

danconquer's Avatar Comment 26 by danconquer

Entrapment-type tactics need to be used with care, but are not problematic so long as the suspect is not being positively incited to do something he otherwise would not have done.

In the Netherlands, the police have recently started sending undercover cops out for a stroll dressed as orthodox Jews in the hope of catching the anti-semitic yobs who are otherwise difficult to nail. Personally I think it's a superb tactic and would dearly like to see it adapted to catch those who enjoy harrassing other minorities.

I am interested in hearing why those who think 'entrapment sucks' would object to the example I've just given.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:11:10 UTC | #554389

Kenny18's Avatar Comment 27 by Kenny18

I love a good CIA or MI5 story. It makes you feel safer knowing that there are organisations watching the world closely for our safety. I sometimes wander though, how much they actually know about terrorist activities and dodgy individuals?. I guess you have to join them to find out! Also I'm not sure if we do exactly this, but I think it would be sensible to monitor all individuals travelling back and forth from Islamic countries like Somalia and Afghanistan.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:12:16 UTC | #554390

SourTomatoSand's Avatar Comment 28 by SourTomatoSand

Comment 25 by the great teapot :

Bush convinced many GIs shock and awe wasn't a crime, regardless of the civilian death toll, it can be done, and easily.

Under US law, "shock and awe" wasn't a crime for the military personnel participating in it. Under international law it may have been. Even so, do you honestly think that giving an order to military personnel who are legally required under US law to follow that order is the same thing as convincing someone that killing US persons with high explosives is legal under US law? Come off it.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:15:10 UTC | #554392

Atheist Mike's Avatar Comment 29 by Atheist Mike

Well this method seems to be the best available to us right now, terrorism is a very dangerous and sneaky threat, if they had not arrested him that way, his case might have been lost in the endless processes of justice, he might have even been able to avoid jail by claiming he didn't really intend to kill hundreds of people or by saying he is "mentally ill" (which he is anyway, indeed he seems to be suffering of a very common case of "religious delirium") and who knows then what might have happened. He deserves the same kind of mercy he intended to show to his victims; absolutely none. Someone who carry out plans to kill free people when himself is offered freedom but who would rather bow to a fictious (as Christopher Hitchens said) "celestial dictatorship" is utterly insane at best and should stay in jail for the rest of his life so good job FBI! Another mad parasite's plan thwarted.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:16:05 UTC | #554393

the great teapot's Avatar Comment 30 by the great teapot

I think so long as the pretend orthodox jews are doing nothing but walking around quitely that is fine. But if they start organising Nazi rallies that is a different matter.

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:16:13 UTC | #554394