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← The Islamification of Britain: record numbers embrace Muslim faith

The Islamification of Britain: record numbers embrace Muslim faith - Comments

AA's Avatar Comment 1 by AA

I still think that immigrants should adopt the culture of the country they choose to move to.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:13:55 UTC | #573046

Rachel Holmes's Avatar Comment 2 by Rachel Holmes

I'd be interested in knowing the average age of converts. Those interviewed in this article are all in their 20s.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:30:12 UTC | #573048

Vicktor's Avatar Comment 3 by Vicktor

"Islam is a missionary religion and many Muslim organisations and particularly university students' Islamic societies have active outreach programmes designed to remove popular misconceptions about the faith."

A 'misconception' like the five daily prayers and fasting in Ramadhan being unequivocally compulsory lest one be deemed a grave sinner and punished in the hereafter? I'd like to see a Muslim organization defend that position.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:33:04 UTC | #573049

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 4 by Richard Dawkins

It is almost a cliché that people of student age often experiment with a variety of belief systems, which they subsequently, and usually quite rapidly, give up. These young people have voluntarily adopted a belief system which has the unique distinction of prescribing execution as the official penalty for leaving it. I have enormous sympathy for those people unfortunate enough to be born into Islam. It is hard to muster much sympathy for those idiotic enough to convert to it.

Richard

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:35:12 UTC | #573050

cyberguy's Avatar Comment 5 by cyberguy

I would be interested in the rate of conversion OUT OF Islam.

The article does not tell the full story.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:36:39 UTC | #573051

tieInterceptor's Avatar Comment 6 by tieInterceptor

One is a dance teacher, another a fashion designer, both professions clearly frown upon by the religion they changed to... How do you square the make up and fashion with being modest? Music is haram too, so much for the dancing... Then there are the more universal problems islam have with females, like half worth in front of the law, as inheritance, or the fact that men can have up to four partners, but women can't , or that muslim men can choose to marry outside the faith, but muslim women can't. Etc etc etc...

Then we have the guy that chooses islam because he likes some ideals of faithfulness to a woman, ? What about polygamy but hey... And not eating bad things for your body ... Funny enough pork or wine are not bad unless you decide they are. And islam didnt stop Muslims smoking like crazy.

And the converted racist, nice just look at his picture

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:39:24 UTC | #573052

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 7 by AtheistEgbert

This article is completely misleading. Immigration over the last decade is why a shift in Islam has gone from about 1% in 2001 to about 4 or 5% today.

Also, it doesn't take into account the far greater increase of people who are adopting non-religion.

I have no doubt some people are converting to Islam, perhaps for spiritual reasons or perhaps for marriage reasons.

The number of immigrants that enter the country is due to be raised again, leading to about 100,000 per year, and so immigration accounts for the figures, not conversions.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:46:17 UTC | #573055

Carl Sai Baba's Avatar Comment 8 by Carl Sai Baba

Comment 1 by AA :

I still think that immigrants should adopt the culture of the country they choose to move to.

I think that all people, regardless of where they were yesterday, should drop stupid cultural practices.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:53:58 UTC | #573058

ScottB's Avatar Comment 9 by ScottB

Even Faith Matters, who I wouldn't trust to research the smelliness of a dog turd, admit that their findings are based the most rubbish of sources. Even the muslims themselves- who you would expect to grasp at this news and ring it out for all it's worth- find it dubious.

What surprises me is that anybody takes such worthless research seriously.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:03:55 UTC | #573060

Sofa King Cool's Avatar Comment 10 by Sofa King Cool

I agree with Richard. How could any adult voluntarily adopt such a belief system? I guess they hate freedom and love to be deluded and selfish. Some young people believe this life requires you to choose faith so they have to pick one, or they are going by flawed arguments such as Pascal's Wager and belive any belief is better than no belief. But Islam? Come on. How can you not be tired of violence and suicide bombings?

A martyr is simply a murderer with a bad excuse.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:13:46 UTC | #573061

jez999's Avatar Comment 11 by jez999

Heh, heh. Do white converts to Islam have a lower IQ on average or something? It strikes me that you'd need one.

I liked the way the Muslim students I knew conducted themselves. It's nice to think about people having one partner for life and not doing anything harmful to their body.

This is a religion that endorses FGM and MGM.

As for 'misconceptions', I know there are a wealth of things to choose from in the Quran, but I'll pick this verse and ask how it can be 'misconceived':

4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:19:18 UTC | #573064

El Bastardo's Avatar Comment 12 by El Bastardo

I read as far as this

The issues of women's rights were shockingly contemporary.

...once I wiped the coffee off my screen I ws left wondering what world this woman lives in, or does she simply not read the news.

The converted racist (who incidently doesn't claim he's not racist anymore) plainly states he tried 3 flavours of islam before finding his goldilocks islam.

Tehn we get to the "I like the look of it" style convert, oh dear. tieInterceptor above has already covered the sillyniess of his initial statement, but this was the clincher for me

Then I was introduced by a Muslim friend to a doctor who was a few years older than me. We went for a coffee and then a few weeks later for an ice cream

Did anyone else read this and think, "that's how the Catholic priests groomed their victims too"

Though it's an interesting new tactic for the evangelicals. No need to hand out pamphlets, just invite people for coffee and ice cream.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:19:22 UTC | #573065

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 13 by Jos Gibbons

I was expecting some evidence the number of annual converts was rising. Nope, just that it's bigger than 0. Well yeah, duh!

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:20:21 UTC | #573066

Dr. monster's Avatar Comment 14 by Dr. monster

on the radio i herd the voice of the woman convert, she said she used to be a rebel but religion gave her a calming influence. apparently 80% of converts are are women. i suspect there is a deal going on where by fake marriages are offered to get male immigrants into the country and in return they pay for the women to stay at home and avoid working. something like that.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:36:38 UTC | #573070

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 15 by Bernard Hurley

Comment 10 by Sofa King Cool :

I agree with Richard. How could any adult voluntarily adopt such a belief system? I guess they hate freedom and love to be deluded and selfish. Some young people believe this life requires you to choose faith so they have to pick one, or they are going by flawed arguments such as Pascal's Wager and belive any belief is better than no belief. But Islam? Come on. How can you not be tired of violence and suicide bombings?

But the logic of Pascal's wager is that you should believe in the religion with the worst Hell. Islam is a good candidate.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:50:02 UTC | #573074

HughCaldwell's Avatar Comment 16 by HughCaldwell

Let's hope the few thousand new arrivals are far outnumbered by those who give up the whole silly business every year.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:54:13 UTC | #573075

Graham1's Avatar Comment 17 by Graham1

The UK is doomed. In two generations whole cities such as Birmingham (already has a muslim population of 14%), Bradford (already 16%), Leicester (already 11%), Luton (already 14%)will be predominantly Islamic. I doubt whether converts will make much of an impression compared to ongoing immigration and the higher reproductive rate of muslim families. I'm wondering whether I should care a damn - I won't be around to see it happen.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:59:23 UTC | #573077

Stephen of Wimbledon's Avatar Comment 18 by Stephen of Wimbledon

In short. This report pretends to be a scientific study, it is not. This report is a piece of religious propaganda. Reading between the lines; Faith Matters wants to try and scare the British media into thinking they are upsetting a large, and growing, religious group (Muslims). Those Muslims who are attached to Faith Matters have acquiesced in the production of this report probably because they like the idea of being seen as a growing and vibrant religion.

Anyone without a religious faith needs to say this - otherwise we are tacitly agreeing to the special treatment that religions claim.

Faith Matters are clear that their report is not, primarily, about how many people are converting to Islam. It is about what role converts can play in integrating Islam into the UK.

Can you say: Playing with fire?

The report exposes its real agenda when it asserts, without providing supporting evidence: "New Muslims are not a security threat, nor are they a population that should be at the mercy of those within Muslim communities who want to push obsolete and unethical cultural practices."

Can you say: In your dreams?

To generate its scaremongering headline the report extrapolates from data in a Scottish census of 2001 that there were ~61,000 converts to Islam in the whole of the UK that year.

Quite apart from the fact that this is little more than a shot in the dark, 2001 was the year of the New York twin towers terrorist attack.

Can you say: Polarised international politics causes emigres to revise personal identities?

The report goes on to say that, following the obvious re-conversion of some immigrants to their family religion (in 2001), the rate of conversion is 5,200 per year. In a population of ~60M that's about 0.0009% of the population. Even if the figure of 5,200 can be trusted that's not exactly earth shattering.

But can the figure be trusted?

For a start the figures are based on a on-line survey with only 122 responses. Some details in the report are based on a follow-up survey of only 32 respondents, a number so small - even in comparison with the supposed number of converts overall - as to be statistically insignificant. The quality of this data is also highly suspect - respondents were asked to self-identify their ethnic origins, for example. Also, finally, the reports authors' have an interesting way of interpreting the data. For example: They rubbish two previous studies that concluded most women who convert to Islam do so in order to marry. This despite the fact that their own survey had identified that 55% had married Muslims from Muslim families, and 12% were married to Muslim converts. 62% of all respondents were female.

Can you say: Transparent agenda?

Finally; the report makes no mention of the people who revert to a previous state (go back to being Christians, Jews, Agnostics, etc.)

Can you say: Incomplete and misleading?

The report is available for free: Link to Report

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:05:53 UTC | #573081

Basees's Avatar Comment 19 by Basees

"I would be interested in the rate of conversion OUT OF Islam"

Very good question. Out of the four British converts to Islam I personally knew, two left that faith outright within the first year, and one, though still claims to be a Muslim, admits he no longer practices any ot its rituals, which makes him an apostate, even if he has not renounced the faith. Only one of the four stayed as a Muslim, but as I haven't heard from her for many years now, I don't know if she still is.

small sample. But I wonder how close it is to the real picture!

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:34:38 UTC | #573089

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 20 by Stafford Gordon

I notice that one of the women in the photo is wearing make up; she's asking for trouble I would of thought.

Maybe it's the sartorial aspects that attract young females, and throwing their weight around and growing a beard that appeals to teenage males.

In any case it's bad news!

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:35:24 UTC | #573090

AsylumWarden's Avatar Comment 21 by AsylumWarden

It is interesting how they've mentioned all the nice bits about Islam, but not things like Jihad or, especially for the women as jez999 stated, FGM etc.

Just like the preachers to do that. It's a bit like Christians denying the content of Leviticus: "Well my Priest/Pastor/Reverend never read anything like that out in church!"

Didn't he really? Well THERE'S a surprise!

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:48:07 UTC | #573094

ANTIcarrot's Avatar Comment 22 by ANTIcarrot

Reading some of the comments, it seems these converts are adopting traditional islam in the same way gay female bishops adopt christianity.

Putting on a funny hat, being modest, and prayer are all pretty harmless activities. As long as they don't take it further.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:49:58 UTC | #573095

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 23 by AtheistEgbert

I remember going through a 'spirituality phase' in my twenties, as there was very much an industry devoted to self-help books, selling spiritual journey novels, music, crystals, incense, meditation tapes and all manner of nonsense.

Gnosticism, sufism, yoga, kabbalah, and mediation: these are all the soft introductory versions of the five main religions, and they all offer a doorway into the main religions, rather like soft drugs.

Young people in Britain face a bleak future, because of a society that puts the economy first and people second. What is the point of it all? What future are we all creating? And so it is very easy for them to seek escapism in these soft forms of religion, because it offers an alternative to the rather grim reality of their lives.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:00:39 UTC | #573099

1Derek's Avatar Comment 24 by 1Derek

Political propaganda for the pseudo religion that is “Islamic fascism” and for those who convert, there is only one way out, you spend the rest of your life as a target for "moderate Muslims".

In short the "religion" of peace will have you killed.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:03:37 UTC | #573101

mmurray's Avatar Comment 25 by mmurray

Although Islam is a misogynist religion and those practising FGM are usually Islamic it is not a mandated part of the religion. Neither is it supported by all Islamic religious authorities.

Michael

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:12:15 UTC | #573104

DeepFritz's Avatar Comment 26 by DeepFritz

In most pharmaceutical shops purchasing exotic fragrances or make-up and bra shops buying the sexy underwear, or going to the waxxxing salon you will see Muslim women. They too appreciate being sexy for their man...

If you were to think about it, there is something alluring about that - imagine the girlfriend who has travelled over to your house on public transport wearing nothing but a rain jacket during a storm - I hope you get the picture.

I like most on here don't appreciate the religion, the forced "modesty in dress," the repression and implicit sexism.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:19:43 UTC | #573105

Anthese's Avatar Comment 27 by Anthese

By using data from the Scottish 2001 census – the only survey to ask respondents what their religion was at birth as well as at the time of the survey

I would be really interested to know how a persons religion changes between conception and birth. Scottish census organisers, perhaps in future you could ask respondents for their religion at all three of conception, birth and time of survey?

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:24:25 UTC | #573106

justinesaracen's Avatar Comment 28 by justinesaracen

I suspect the motivations for converting are for the most part other than a genuine search for spirituality. In the young, it's just experimentation (as I experimented with Wicca). I think there is also the theme of victimization which attracts a lot of people particularly idealistic ones. One wants to support people whom one views as heroic victims, and any analysis of the western attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan or of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, can create an impression of all Muslims being victims. (A friend of mine once told me she converted to Judaism twenty years ago for this reason, "to show solidarity.")

I can certainly see the superficial attraction for males: ultramachismo, the permanent 3 day beard, docile women, etc. and I rather doubt that any of them read the fine print about death to apostates.

Even if the conversion is temporary and superficial, the numbers are a bit unsettling. So much stupidity.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:25:01 UTC | #573107

weavehole's Avatar Comment 29 by weavehole

How to become a Muslim

Islam is one of the easiest religions to convert to. Technically, all a person needs to do is recite the Shahada, the formal declaration of faith, which states: "There is no God but Allah and Mohamed is his Prophet." A single honest recitation is all that is needed to become a Muslim, but most converts choose to do so in front of at least two witnesses, one being an imam.

I think that I've just become 36.3636...% Muslim.

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:26:59 UTC | #573108

mmurray's Avatar Comment 30 by mmurray

Comment 23 by AtheistEgbert :

I remember going through a 'spirituality phase' in my twenties, as there was very much an industry devoted to self-help books, selling spiritual journey novels, music, crystals, incense, meditation tapes and all manner of nonsense.

Ah does this explain the "buddhist bullshit" comment on another thread? There is a certainly a lot of rubbish out there. If you want to meditate it can be quite hard to find courses and books that don't set of woo alerts. Principle of these for me are any mention of energy or chakras and definitely reincarnation or karma.

Gnosticism, sufism, yoga, kabbalah, and mediation: these are all the soft introductory versions of the five main religions, and they all offer a doorway into the main religions, rather like soft drugs.

Lol I have a sudden vision of somebody in a cave up in the Himalayas saying "I started out just doing a bit of TM in the evenings and the salute the sun pose in the morning and before I knew it I was hooked ... "

Michael

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:32:11 UTC | #573110