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← New Mexico Bill Seeks to Protect Anti-Science Education

New Mexico Bill Seeks to Protect Anti-Science Education - Comments

genjokoan's Avatar Comment 1 by genjokoan

The message I take away from this is to remember that THEY (believers) outnumber US (rational, thinking people) and they are fully committed to winning for Jesus. Their desired ends justify their means. That is to say, truth is not an impediment to their cause.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 01:54:25 UTC | #587648

TIKI AL's Avatar Comment 2 by TIKI AL

A frog becoming a prince might be a stretch, but at least THEY really can walk on water.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 02:06:47 UTC | #587652

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 3 by Neodarwinian

Feeling beleaguered? Welcome to the US educational system. It appears this bill will die in comity. Good riddance!

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 02:27:37 UTC | #587661

Nerevarine's Avatar Comment 4 by Nerevarine

What if all the rational people around the world moved to one country and allowed the rest to fall however they may? "Jesus Freaks" could create their own dark age if they want, whereas we could concentrate in high enough numbers to build at least one nation that always values science and reason over superstition.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 02:30:43 UTC | #587664

Steve Ride's Avatar Comment 5 by Steve Ride

Comment 4 by Nerevarine

What if all the rational people around the world moved to one country and allowed the rest to fall however they may?

That would be great as long as the jesus freaks were not left in control of the arsenal of a country such as the USA.

Scary thought.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 03:46:43 UTC | #587676

lewis.breland's Avatar Comment 6 by lewis.breland

Tragedy strikes again in the good ole USA!

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 03:56:40 UTC | #587677

Alternative Carpark's Avatar Comment 7 by Alternative Carpark

Comment 4 by Nerevarine :

What if all the rational people around the world moved to one country and allowed the rest to fall however they may? "Jesus Freaks" could create their own dark age if they want, whereas we could concentrate in high enough numbers to build at least one nation that always values science and reason over superstition.

How about the religious just bugger off to Mars? Besides, they'd probably feel more at home in the deserts, and they could rename Olympus Mons to Sinai Mons.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 04:03:34 UTC | #587678

Eyerish's Avatar Comment 8 by Eyerish

Damm those duelling banjos are just getting louder and louder. Hopefully common sense will prevail and this legislation disappears up its own rectum.

What they don't realise (or don't want to realise) is that what they sow now will bite them in the generations to come. If they start to 'dumb down' science education with this 'teaching the controversy' crap which are words from the so called "Intelligent Design" propagandists. Then the US will suffer in the long run as innovation and free thinking slowly disappear and they are left with mindless automotons chanting 'JC, JC, JC'. I know it won't get to that level in our life times but if the wrong seeds are sown now; then who knows what the future holds.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 04:42:47 UTC | #587680

huzonfurst's Avatar Comment 9 by huzonfurst

@4, the problem with your 'solution' is the knowledge of all the innocents suffering in those dark-age countries. This would bother me to the point of intervention, I'm afraid. "No one is free until everyone is free," and all that.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:18:17 UTC | #587691

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 10 by Bernard Hurley

Maybe someone should introduce a Bill that protects everyone from the consequences of not doing their job properly, even if, no especially if, it involves telling barefaced lies.

Fairy tales say the Emperor has no clothes.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:28:20 UTC | #587693

josephor's Avatar Comment 11 by josephor

Nothing new there from that ignorant gun nut.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 07:59:06 UTC | #587711

Dr. monster's Avatar Comment 12 by Dr. monster

it strikes me that some of the problem we are facing here is because we don't teach kids the philosophy of the scientific method. we teach them how to do experiments and make theories and predictions, but we don't teach them why we do it. having just read the beginning of the greatest show on earth reminded me of this.

kids should be taught: the difference between a theorum and a hypothersis that you can only disprove and never prove a theory how hypotherses are promoted to theorums the unreliability of eye-witness evidence

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:33:00 UTC | #587738

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 13 by Alan4discussion

Comment 12 by Dr. monster

it strikes me that some of the problem we are facing here is because we don't teach kids the philosophy of the scientific method.

The problem is , that to teach science properly infants should be started experiencing properties of science (light, lenses, mirrors, electricity plant growth) before the are old enough ( or mentally developed) to learn formal reasoning or scientific method.

Hopefully this legislation demonstrating political stupidity will be killed off at an early stage.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 11:09:06 UTC | #587774

RW Millam's Avatar Comment 14 by RW Millam

Comment 4 by Nerevarine

What if all the rational people around the world moved to one country and allowed the rest to fall however they may?

We don't have to leave. All we need to do is hold out until May 21. That's when The Rapture will be taking all these "Jesus Freaks" away, finally!

And I've proposed a New Rule -- when The Rapture doesn't happen, anyone who believed in it has to leave anyhow. So, the way I figure it, we're covered either way.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:13:38 UTC | #587797

KRKBAB's Avatar Comment 15 by KRKBAB

How about the alternative to the Theory of Gravity: God Blows?

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:36:27 UTC | #587835

sgturner59's Avatar Comment 16 by sgturner59

Living here in Albuquerque, New Mexico, I've encountered high school teachers wary of using the term "evolution." There is a ground-swell of opinion that evolution is "merely a theory." How many times must American schools go over this, and when will educators have the gonads to speak clearly and directly against creationists? Our kids are the losers in this.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 14:21:58 UTC | #587856

ajs261's Avatar Comment 17 by ajs261

Our kids are the losers in this.

As well as, ultimately, the country's capacity for innovation.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:37:38 UTC | #587898

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 18 by Alan4discussion

......... And on the motion before the house:

All the frogs say, "aye"!

All princes of reason supporting valid science say, "Nay"!

(Hopefully) the supporters of science and reason have it!

...... So the frogs can go back into their mud puddles and (mental) hibernation now!

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 16:27:07 UTC | #587918

SoHelpMeReason's Avatar Comment 19 by SoHelpMeReason

Geez. Please stop. I'm just so exasperated by these people. I quit feeling hopeful; I really am upset now. It's just so frustrating. How can you get it through to them? How is it even possible, insufferable as they are?

I quit, I simply don't have the temperament for this type of thing. Richard Dawkins is a patient, patient, man.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 17:27:50 UTC | #587941

prettygoodformonkeys's Avatar Comment 20 by prettygoodformonkeys

Comment 19 by SoHelpMeReason

Our numbers are growing, and sorry, but you can't quit. If you are reasonable, there's just nowhere else to go.

The good news is the bad news.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:56:27 UTC | #587985

genjokoan's Avatar Comment 21 by genjokoan

Comment 11 by josephor :

Nothing new there from that ignorant gun nut.

Say what? Wrong story perhaps?

This is, among other things, a Constitutional problem for our two party system. One party likes some of the Constitution, the other party likes other parts of the Constitution. I want representatives who get behind all of the Constitution, not just the parts they like or find politically expedient in their region.

More than a 1st Amendment issue, this story (and this site?) is about getting ignorant, uneducated and unqualified people out of positions of authority, be they teachers, school board members or representatives with any power at all over our lives.

If you want to go religious and ad hominem over the 2nd Amendment, you better come loaded for bear. That IS a slippery slope. The 1st and 2nd Amendments to the US Constitution might as well be a single entry. I cannot see a future where losing one would not guarantee losing the other.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:05:49 UTC | #587988

ScottB's Avatar Comment 22 by ScottB

...states that public school teachers who want to teach “scientific weaknesses” about “controversial scientific topics” including evolution, climate change, human cloning and — ambiguously — “other scientific topics” may do so without fear of reprimand.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Just a couple of stipulations, the "weaknesses" must be actual scientific criticisms that have been tested and peer-reviewed and NOT your own incredulity or bias, and if the "weakness" has been thoroughly debunked then you can't fucking teach it! Now shut up and teach science you whining, self-satisfied little wazzocks! If you can't do that then stop teaching and become a minister; leave the teaching to those with a passion for science not a passion for superstition!

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 20:17:47 UTC | #588019

alaskansee's Avatar Comment 23 by alaskansee

@ genjokoan

I just don't understand why anyone would believe that the American constitution can't be amended? It's impossible to discuss the big C without mentioning the amendments so go ahead, it's as out dated as any document written then. No one should be happy with it's current incarnation.

It's also a little misleading suggesting that both sides are milking it as much as the other. We all know who thinks they know the constitution and who actually does.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 20:40:56 UTC | #588033

chawinwords's Avatar Comment 24 by chawinwords

Since I live in N.M., perhaps I should comment. But instead, always remember that the human race thrives on story-telling, dating back to the shaman era and the birth of language. Good story-telling is the cons greatest weapon when applied to human emotion. Religious stories were there at the beginning of the human search for knowledge, and when believed to the extent that those beliefs become immune to facts (common as hell), assures us that the human race (at least the majority) will never exceed humanity's early adolescence -- if,you consider the ages before organized language, humanity's infancy. Of course, story-telling, especially emotionally driven, is the ultimate trap, preventing progress because it causes intellectual indolence. And don't forget, one definition of a story-teller is: "a person who lies or who lies repeatedly." Lying comes so easily to story-believing Christians, like bread lathered with butter.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 22:04:15 UTC | #588061

alaskansee's Avatar Comment 25 by alaskansee

"lathered" shouldn't that be slathered? Unless you mean soap, or it is just a cultural difference?

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 22:23:54 UTC | #588068

Randy Ping's Avatar Comment 26 by Randy Ping

Ugh, i hope aliens invade from another planet.

Fri, 04 Feb 2011 22:31:34 UTC | #588075

chawinwords's Avatar Comment 27 by chawinwords

Good catch, alaskansee -- slathered, meaning to spread thickly, is the correct word.

Thanks for the correction.

Sat, 05 Feb 2011 00:05:34 UTC | #588097

lackofgravitas's Avatar Comment 28 by lackofgravitas

You don't really have to move to another planet to get rid of these morons, just vacate the US for 1 year. When you go back, it will be empty. Maybe some sweeping.

Sat, 05 Feb 2011 01:13:52 UTC | #588110

ROYGES's Avatar Comment 29 by ROYGES

Comment 4 by Nerevarine :

What if all the rational people around the world moved to one country and allowed the rest to fall however they may? "Jesus Freaks" could create their own dark age if they want, whereas we could concentrate in high enough numbers to build at least one nation that always values science and reason over superstition.

You just made my day , This what i think we should do

Sat, 05 Feb 2011 01:27:17 UTC | #588112

Maddowfan's Avatar Comment 30 by Maddowfan

I live in New Mexico and I an generally surrounded by the ignorant right but I wrote this to my Republican Representative.

Dear Rep. Paul C. Bandy , I have recently learned that House Bill 302 ( by Rep. Thomas A. Anderson) has been introduced that would allow public school teachers to present established scientific principles in a doubtful manner as if they are just some theory under consideration. The teaching of evolution and climate change as other than fact is to handicap our children with rubbish. There is overwhelming evidence of these principals and no science teacher should be allowed to teach unsubstantiated opinion which is what this bill appears to do. I would also urge you and other representatives to watch this video for further understanding of the issue. http://www.youtube.com/user/MultiInternetfreak#p/u/5/o2wMGU8-2bE part 1 of 6.

If someone wants to teach fantasy, they can do that in the overwhelming number of churches across our state and country. We need to prepare students for critical thinking based on facts and not allow inept opinion to take over classes. I strongly urge you to oppose this type of foolery now and in the future. Sincerely,

For atheists T-shirts got to www.zazzle.com/artisan9

Sat, 05 Feb 2011 06:16:22 UTC | #588156