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← Free schools 'divisive' says Manchester anti-extremism tsar

Free schools 'divisive' says Manchester anti-extremism tsar - Comments

billzfantazy's Avatar Comment 1 by billzfantazy

Free schools, Faith schools WTF can't we just have schools?

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:28:38 UTC | #588518

biorays's Avatar Comment 2 by biorays

The remit for schools per se ought to be enrichment of education and absence of dogma and especially indoctrination. Religion, as collective identity, needs throwing out as a de facto inclusion but treated as 'ways' some humans think about the world - which essentially ought to be taught as the subject matter of present day equivalents to historical myth prior to scientific enlightenment.

This is the only sensible and reasonable 'multicultural approach' to inclusivity.

We all need educating about how to think.

The extremist intellectual arrogances of religious mindsets perpetually derail multiculturalism!

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:41:08 UTC | #588521

DaveGilbert's Avatar Comment 3 by DaveGilbert

No shit Sherlock

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:49:50 UTC | #588523

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 4 by Stafford Gordon

This free school idea is barm pot, and will cause even more entrenchment, isolation and suspicion of "other" in already dangerously divided communities; what a silly cove is Gove!

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 13:31:26 UTC | #588539

thatgingerscouser's Avatar Comment 5 by thatgingerscouser

Oi! Preacher! Leave them kids alone!

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 14:07:04 UTC | #588542

AsylumWarden's Avatar Comment 6 by AsylumWarden

The Creationist-planned free school mentioned elsewhere on this site was a prime example. Free schools will simply provide a platform for political and religeous extremists to push their dogmatic agendas into the mainstream and - most importantly - on our children, to innocent to be equipped to read between the lines and see it as such.

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:08:47 UTC | #588556

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 7 by Neodarwinian

Free schools!! I thought the scholastic/political landscape in the US was hard to follow. Airstrip 1; here it comes.

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 18:10:18 UTC | #588595

Vorlund's Avatar Comment 8 by Vorlund

Let's have no strings attached schools run by professionals and free from league table KPIs that encourage the selection of stupefying qualifications that make the head teacher look good at the expense of student experience.

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 18:39:01 UTC | #588601

jez999's Avatar Comment 9 by jez999

"When I came back into the state sector it became clear to me that this is where we should be making citizens of the future and although we are a majority Muslim school, we have a very diverse population with 33 different languages spoken.

There's ya problem there. With 33 languages being spoken it's gonna be difficult to teach kids in one language.

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 18:48:27 UTC | #588602

Problem Solved's Avatar Comment 10 by Problem Solved

I suppose I'll get socratic...

  1. What about Professor Dawkins's idea for a free school ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7849563/Richard-Dawkins-interested-in-setting-up-atheist-free-school.html )?

  2. Would that not be superior to standard public schooling, considered flawed from a scientific perspective ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U )?

I know this is comparing an ideal with the real-world, but it highlights some positive possibilities for educational reform. Educational evolution is likely wiser than revolution; incorporating a more 'free' approach would encourage bright, young minds, rather than hinder and alienate them, as the current methods certainly do.

Sun, 06 Feb 2011 21:33:48 UTC | #588644

erindorothy's Avatar Comment 11 by erindorothy

I'm going to start up a hospital because I fancy wearing a stethoscope. So there.

Mon, 07 Feb 2011 08:22:24 UTC | #588796

lackofgravitas's Avatar Comment 12 by lackofgravitas

I also assume that these schools will be able to legally discriminate against those they don't want. Poor people, different religious persuasion, different genders......

Anyone read any Dickens recently?

Mon, 07 Feb 2011 14:49:44 UTC | #588929

Dave H's Avatar Comment 13 by Dave H

Faith schools are Tony Blair's worst legacy. We now not only have to stop the spread of this disease, we have to figure out how to reverse the damage.

Mon, 07 Feb 2011 16:16:12 UTC | #588959

mixmastergaz's Avatar Comment 14 by mixmastergaz

We all need educating about how to think

I agree, if you're advocating the teaching of critical thinking. However, I have a problem with this bit:-

Religion, as collective identity, needs throwing out as a de facto inclusion but treated as 'ways' some humans think about the world - which essentially ought to be taught as the subject matter of present day equivalents to historical myth prior to scientific enlightenment

Don't get me wrong - I agree with this as an assessment of religion in general, but this strikes me more as an example of educating about what to think, not how to think. I'm no more happy with a teacher endorsing atheism than I am with a teacher endorsing, say Christianity.

I agree with the sentiment behind the first post. Teachers shouldn't abuse their positions by trying to steer their students' thinking on questions of politics, religion etc. Depending upon the subject specialism, this could become none-too-subtle indoctrination very easily, and all too often does already. I see the free-school proposals as making an already far-from-ideal situation worse.

I'm glad at least one prominent UK Muslim agrees with me, as does this enlightened rabbi:-

http://newhumanist.org.uk/1893/time-for-accord

Mon, 07 Feb 2011 16:19:25 UTC | #588961

biorays's Avatar Comment 15 by biorays

Comment 14 by mixmastergaz :

We all need educating about how to think

I agree, if you're advocating the teaching of critical thinking. However, I have a problem with this bit:-

Religion, as collective identity, needs throwing out as a de facto inclusion but treated as 'ways' some humans think about the world - which essentially ought to be taught as the subject matter of present day equivalents to historical myth prior to scientific enlightenment

Don't get me wrong - I agree with this as an assessment of religion in general, but this strikes me more as an example of educating about what to think, not how to think. I'm no more happy with a teacher endorsing atheism than I am with a teacher endorsing, say Christianity.

I agree with the sentiment behind the first post. Teachers shouldn't abuse their positions by trying to steer their students' thinking on questions of politics, religion etc. Depending upon the subject specialism, this could become none-too-subtle indoctrination very easily, and all too often does already. I see the free-school proposals as making an already far-from-ideal situation worse.

I'm glad at least one prominent UK Muslim agrees with me, as does this enlightened rabbi:-

http://newhumanist.org.uk/1893/time-for-accord

Basically schools should NOT be havens for religious ideology!

Schools are NOT places of worship - or else their definition is not school but some mutation thereof.

Religion is massively networked into as many waking moments (of consciousness) it can muster to preserve its momentum - even to beyond death.

Religion is trolling daily living to parasite and groom its way into young minds.

Young minds need and deserve protection from the virus of religious indoctrinations.

Morality should be devoid of religions claims upon it.

Morality is corrupted by historical scriptwriters staking their claims upon it and then insisting upon subservience and inclusion of it.

Impartial education about religious views maybe - but religious servitude absolutely not!

Mon, 07 Feb 2011 22:18:07 UTC | #589076

alaskansee's Avatar Comment 16 by alaskansee

Well I for one would like to thank Mr Fenn for his ability to separate reality and fantasy, we certainly need more like this. Not only loudly proclaiming the stupidity but from within the mosque no less!

Mon, 07 Feb 2011 23:08:37 UTC | #589089

Thomas_Aikenhead's Avatar Comment 17 by Thomas_Aikenhead

Well said on this occasion Mr Fenn but I cant help thinking there is something deeply oxymoronic about the title 'anti-extremism tsar'. Such is the glib language of post modern consensus politics where journalists and governments do not even think about the clich├ęs they transmit.

Tue, 08 Feb 2011 00:31:12 UTC | #589111

biorays's Avatar Comment 18 by biorays

The problem, for tomorrows children, in anything helping network the mythology of religious subservience, is that it reduces them to become hosts to accepting as fact the insane ramblings of men of long ago!

Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:48:06 UTC | #589541

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 19 by Alan4discussion

Comment 10 by Problem Solved

I suppose I'll get socratic...

  1. What about Professor Dawkins's idea for a free school ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7849563/Richard-Dawkins-interested-in-setting-up-atheist-free-school.html )?
  2. Would that not be superior to standard public schooling, considered flawed from a scientific perspective ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U )?

I know this is comparing an ideal with the real-world, but it highlights some positive possibilities for educational reform. Educational evolution is likely wiser than revolution; incorporating a more 'free' approach would encourage bright, young minds, rather than hinder and alienate them, as the current methods certainly do.

This would merely by one good school in the whole country. There are already numerous VERY GOOD state schools doing this job.
The POLITICAL "FREE SCHOOL" gimmick is to DIVERT PUBLIC MONEY AWAY FROM THESE SCHOOLS and directly into the hands of amateur nut-brains with their own agendas. They are to be FREE OF SUPERVISION AND REGULATION BY THE LOCALLY ELECTED EDUCATION AUTHORITIES.

Eight will open in the autumn after Parliament passed legislation in 2010.

It is a diversionary gimmick to distract from the cancellation of millions of pounds of much needed refurbishment and new school buildings in hundreds of schools.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 10:39:40 UTC | #589929

Andrevp's Avatar Comment 20 by Andrevp

Free school is an improvement, but still the best school is no school at all !

Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:22:34 UTC | #876552

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 21 by Premiseless

Thanks for the loan and whilst I'm here could you just go through my child's report?

Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:34:59 UTC | #909484