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Bible Writers Intended to Deceive - Comments

some asshole's Avatar Comment 1 by some asshole

Wait, the Christian bible is bullshit?

SAY IT ISN'T SO!

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:40:39 UTC | #590117

Degsy's Avatar Comment 2 by Degsy

Cannot say I am surprised at this when the whole thing was fabricated in the first place. Do we really need a scholarly account of how dishonest it is? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the efforts made by Bart if his claims turn out to be true. That said, this has no real bearing on how I feel about the bible one way or the other. However, what will credulous christians think of this? There are questions to be asked of the faithful. Will this change the mind of any died in the wool faith heads? Me thinks not.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:47:41 UTC | #590120

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 3 by PrimeNumbers

Surprise surprise! Sounds like it will be a good read though.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:55:34 UTC | #590122

michaelfaulkner101's Avatar Comment 4 by michaelfaulkner101

comment 1, hahahahh

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:56:16 UTC | #590123

PrimeNumbers's Avatar Comment 5 by PrimeNumbers

Degsy, Ehrman himself was very religious and it was study of the Bible that lead him away from Christianity, so if it can work for him, it can work for others too.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:56:33 UTC | #590124

CarlaTrumper's Avatar Comment 6 by CarlaTrumper

What may be the penalty for such forgery?!

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:57:54 UTC | #590125

flamenco's Avatar Comment 7 by flamenco

My brother - being a commited christian - has read some (I think only a little) of Bart Ehrman - and dismisses him out of hand - despite Ehrman knowing considerably more than he about the bible and its history.

So no - I don't think it will make much difference to the faithful - they will probably avoid it or dismiss it.

I will probably read it (having read quite a few of his already) - if only for more ammo in readiness for further inter-sibling 'debating'.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:00:10 UTC | #590126

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 8 by Neodarwinian

" They resorted to forgery, fabrication and character assassination........."

Left out cold blooded murder.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:08:53 UTC | #590129

brianhunt62's Avatar Comment 9 by brianhunt62

I've read "Jesus Interrupted" and "God's Problem" by Ehrman. The first one deals with some of the many contradictions in the Bible and the second one deals with the so called "Problem of Pain."

I read "Jesus Interrupted" first and became interested in Ehrman's loss of faith which was not due to the contradictions and what looked like forgery in the Bible. He says his loss of faith was due to the suffering in the world and the unsatisfactory and often contradictory positions of the Bible on suffering.

It was very interesting to read about the thoughts around his transformation from a fundamentalist Christian to a non-believer.

If you do engage yourself in discussions with people having a literal belief in the Bible, Erhman's books can help you in those discussions......even if it's not possible the "win" them.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:13:18 UTC | #590131

Dhamma's Avatar Comment 10 by Dhamma

Regardless of potential veracity, will it ever be more than speculation?

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:16:02 UTC | #590133

Simon Templar's Avatar Comment 11 by Simon Templar

Hardly earth shattering as any good annotated Bible or commentary will tell you this and they are freely available. My New Jerome Bible Commentary has so many endings for Mark I from other unknown contributors that I rather think it should be retitled 'The Gospel according to Ellery Queen' For even easier research a quick visit to the online Catholic Encyclopedia is equally informative and reproduces all these so called forgeries in full.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:25:22 UTC | #590136

chawinwords's Avatar Comment 12 by chawinwords

The Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant, and literal word of the Living God: so says the evangelical Christian movement of the Christian Dominionists in the U.S. -- and in some of the darkest places in Africa where they have laid their intelligence killing eggs.

Those who believe such will instantly tell you that it makes no difference regarding any contrary evidence, because "that evidence won't change what I already believe."

Hence, adequate proof that those believers not only don't believe in evolution, but have stopped evolving themselves. Arguing with such people is like turning over the toilet paper several times and not noticing things aren't getting any better.

What a waste of time and energy!

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:38:42 UTC | #590140

chawinwords's Avatar Comment 13 by chawinwords

The Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant, and literal word of the Living God: so says the evangelical Christian movement of the Christian Dominionists in the U.S. -- and in some of the darkest places in Africa where they have laid their intelligence killing eggs.

Those who believe such will instantly tell you that it makes no difference regarding any contrary evidence, because "that evidence won't change what I already believe."

Hence, adequate proof that those believers not only don't believe in evolution, but have stopped evolving themselves. Arguing with such people is like turning over the toilet paper several times and not noticing things aren't getting any better.

What a waste of time and energy!

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:40:09 UTC | #590141

cixelsyd5's Avatar Comment 14 by cixelsyd5

I have read Bart Ehrman and had a couple conversations with him via e-mail. He is a very scholarly, if not the most scholarly, authority on New Testament history and textual criticism. His works really do deserve a read by everyone here. It is great information not only for you own personal knowledge and learning but great knowledge for repudiating all the nonsense claims that the Bible is the perfect, flawless word of the creator of the universe.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:41:21 UTC | #590144

Atheist Mike's Avatar Comment 15 by Atheist Mike

The bible should be seen as just another work of fiction amongst many others. I'd classify it under the "Epic Fantasy" category, squeezed between "The Hobbit" and "The Odyssey of Homer".

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:41:48 UTC | #590145

Peter Grant's Avatar Comment 16 by Peter Grant

Lying for Jesus is supposedly a virtue, that's the only real point of contention I can see.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:45:49 UTC | #590146

JHJEFFERY's Avatar Comment 17 by JHJEFFERY

Comment 10 by Dhamma

Regardless of potential veracity, will it ever be more than speculation?

I certainly hope so!

Remember that the efforts to unpack the Bible and Christian history from its mythology are recent. Only 400 years ago such efforts might have gotten you turned into ashes, and it is only in the last century that scholarship that flatly contradicts the Christian story has become acceptable. And the secular study of the subjects did reach full throttle until the latter half of the century. More scholarship means we get closer and closer to the truth--until one day we will be able to say bullshit on the whole thing with confidence.

I find this subject fascinating. As several posters here know, the source of most early Christian history was Eusebius' Historia Ecclesiastica (Church History). His accounts of the beauty and success of the Christian religion has been proved erroneous on many issues, so that most present-day historians concede that he is more dishonest than just mistaken. It was also Eusebius who collected and published the first Bibles, circa 333 C.E. (by memory).

For a well-written, if obviously dishonest approach to the subject, try Divine Institutes by Lactantius. This was the book, I contend, that was used to proselytize Constantine.

JHJ

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:48:55 UTC | #590148

ajs261's Avatar Comment 18 by ajs261

Such accounts abounded with chilling anti-Semitic stereotypes of malevolent Jews as Christ-killers. They were in circulation for centuries and thrived much longer as an oral tradition, feeding into the mainstream of European thought well until modern times.

Indeed. Didn't that end well?

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:52:39 UTC | #590150

chawinwords's Avatar Comment 19 by chawinwords

Dang, I left out one, when I said: "The Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant, and literal word of the Living God: so says the evangelical Christian movement of the Christian Dominionists in the U.S."

They also say the Bible is "infallible." Whew, and they burned the Harry Potter books, even in my state; which proves, sorcerers don't like competition.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:55:30 UTC | #590151

ZenDruid's Avatar Comment 20 by ZenDruid

I haven't read any of Ehrman's material, but I'm curious as to what his opinion of Irenaeus might be.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:00:19 UTC | #590154

gordon's Avatar Comment 21 by gordon

I've just bought a beautiful centenary edition of the King James Bible and now I find it’s a forgery. Gutted!

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:08:43 UTC | #590157

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 22 by strangebrew

6

What may be the penalty for such forgery?!

I think we are all paying that price right now!

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:12:48 UTC | #590159

Vorlund's Avatar Comment 23 by Vorlund

Are we surprised?

John Marco Allegro 1923 - 1988 a leading secular authority on the dead sea scrolls:-

'with the unhappy record of the church for destroying documents and whole libraries of which it disapproved, as well as its predeliction for controlling the reading habits and opportunities of the faithful, one can only continue to be apprehensive about the church's attitude when religiously sensitive information comes into its hands'

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:23:44 UTC | #590167

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 24 by aquilacane

Kind of doesn’t matter when you are dealing with a near complete work of highly suspected fiction. The criminals, in this case, are the ones adamant in demanding it be accepted as non-fiction without providing any evidentiary support. Churches, priests, monks, rabbis, bishops, anyone pitching this religious BS (not just the bible) as true without a “This is for entertainment purposes only” disclaimer is a fraudulent con artist who should be openly disrespected for the reckless and willful stupefaction of the human race.

Completely irrelevant side note (more so than my usual posts): The word non-fiction always escapes me; I can never recall it. My brain always says faction. I actually said faction in a meeting once; looked like a dork. Screw you non-fiction.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:30:31 UTC | #590172

Sajanas's Avatar Comment 25 by Sajanas

I've read Misquoting Jesus and Jesus Interrupted, and while it does give me flashbacks to Sunday school to read all these old Bible stories, Ehrman does a very good job of tearing into the Bible with textual criticism and comparisons with actual historical accounts. And while theoretically, some Bible's have this information in them, I've never really seen it brought to attention in church, and Ehrman brings attention to a pretty big dereliction of priestly duty. Namely that almost all non fundamentalists clergy learn everything in these books, and yet never, ever bring it to their congregations. I think there is a pretty great interest in this stuff, and having an understanding of textual criticism and biblical archaeology may not make one an atheist, but it certainly makes you less likely to build an ark or believe that the words attributed to Jesus are absolute.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:46:37 UTC | #590179

Carl Sai Baba's Avatar Comment 26 by Carl Sai Baba

I always assumed that the King James bible survived as a popular edition as a matter of natural selection because the "old english" style from that era gave modern readers a sense of historical authenticity. I didn't think, as I would later learn, that some of the language used by the king's translators was considered "olde tyme" even back then. They did it on purpose!

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:47:11 UTC | #590180

sbooder's Avatar Comment 27 by sbooder

That’s it! I am never going to believe the Bible again...Oh wait, that’s right, I never did!

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:06:01 UTC | #590189

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 28 by AtheistEgbert

If anyone can get it, I recommend Bart Ehrman's lectures on Lost Christianities.

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:10:56 UTC | #590190

CarlaTrumper's Avatar Comment 29 by CarlaTrumper

Oh yeah. @strangebrew, for a moment I thought it might be over:( It was a great moment though:)

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:19:52 UTC | #590191

Everapominoz's Avatar Comment 30 by Everapominoz

I wonder if the early draughts have been found?

Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:43:07 UTC | #590196