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Pakistan minorities minister shot dead in Islamabad - Comments

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 1 by AtheistEgbert

A revolution needs to happen in Pakistan.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:00:43 UTC | #597977

Vicktor's Avatar Comment 2 by Vicktor

Comment 1 by AtheistEgbert

A revolution needs to happen in Pakistan.

Evolution needs to happen in Pakistan.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:02:37 UTC | #597978

gordon's Avatar Comment 3 by gordon

With or without the nukes?

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:02:56 UTC | #597979

jez999's Avatar Comment 4 by jez999

Comment 1 by AtheistEgbert :

A revolution needs to happen in Pakistan.

That would be assuming that these killings are unrepresentative of the views of the general population.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:15:19 UTC | #597981

Hellboy2's Avatar Comment 5 by Hellboy2

Typical of these psychotic, religious cowards. They're quite willing to defend their crackpot beliefs with extreme and murderous force and yet hide and cower from any retaliation or punishment. You'd think that with allah or Mo or whatever on their side, they would be happy to stand up and face what they've done - after all, isn't the fact that their sky fairy is impotent that he needs their 'protection' from all these infadels and blasphemous all the time?

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:19:23 UTC | #597982

Rene Boxem's Avatar Comment 6 by Rene Boxem

It seems Pakistan doesn't need a blasphemy law. You get shot if you criticize the blasphemy law, I wonder what happens if one blasphemes, blasphemy law or not...

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:45:41 UTC | #597989

lackofgravitas's Avatar Comment 7 by lackofgravitas

We can't blame all the citizens of Pakistan, but as mentioned above, if this is the opinion of the majority we have a serious problem on our hands.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:52:29 UTC | #597990

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 8 by Stevehill

Failed state, beyond hope. Cancel aid, cut diplomatic ties, travel links, terminate visas.

They can talk to us again after the civil war is over, if the right side wins.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:57:14 UTC | #597991

Stephen of Wimbledon's Avatar Comment 9 by Stephen of Wimbledon

Mr. Cohen says:

Despair is a reasonable response to a failed state.

Perhaps, but it isn't very useful ... is it.

He goes on to say:

... the relativism which asserts that human rights are all well and good for us but not for the peoples of the poor world is no response at all.

This is surely the right starting point. We can throw up our arms and wail at the moon - or we can respond. The key problem is modern politician's widespread adoption - explicitly and implicitly - of relativism and its bastard child multiculturalism.

Then he gets into his stride:

... instead of acknowledging our fear we dress up our refusal to speak plainly in woozy therapeutic language. We talk of our "respect" for diversity and our determination to protect "the other" and fail to notice that we are abandoning "the other's" victims and aiding and abetting their enemies.

Yes, relativism not only suffers from unintended consequences, it actively supports the kinds of human activities that it is designed to thwart! How ridiculously stupid is that.

Islamists threatened Ahmadis in Surrey, but the story passed virtually without comment in the British press.

I live just down the road from this running sore of political horror. Prima facie evidence of the ugly failure of relativism and how it supports bigotry, and religious bigotry in particular.

Those of us who oppose the poison of religion rely far too heavily on heroes, like Taseer, Hirsi Ali, and Rushdie. It is past the time to stand up and be counted. Make sure you fill in your National Census forms as a person without faith, and hassle your elected representatives to ensure they're not pandering to the power-plays of religions.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:07:59 UTC | #597995

Mr Bleaney's Avatar Comment 10 by Mr Bleaney

I wonder just how many more brave men and women will have to die in Pakistan and throughout the Islamic world and beyond, before human decency overcomes that other human trait the obscenity of religious violence.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:12:10 UTC | #597997

mixmastergaz's Avatar Comment 11 by mixmastergaz

I was re-reading part of TGD last night in preparation for a class I'm teaching today.

I came across Richard's reply to a letter he recieved from a woman who had suffered religious abuse in the form of mental torture about hell. One part of Richard's reply seems relevant. He said something to the effect that part of the reason some people place such undue emphasis on the torments of hell is because the existence of hell is so obviously implausible that it needs to be exaggerated in order to have any persuasive force. If those people in Pakistan who are threatened by this victimless 'crime' were confident in their Islamic faith then they would have no need of a blasphemy law.

Methinks the ladies doth protest too much.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:14:16 UTC | #598000

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 12 by Schrodinger's Cat

The religion of peace strikes again.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:18:52 UTC | #598001

Dr. monster's Avatar Comment 13 by Dr. monster

maybe this is the case for keeping our nuclear deterant. can you imagine a jihadi Pakistan with nuclear weapons? what would their response be to the cartoons or jerry springer the opera? a threat to all nations -blaspheme and we will nuke you !

very scary.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:22:43 UTC | #598002

Bala's Avatar Comment 14 by Bala

"This is concerted campaign to slaughter every liberal, progressive and humanist voice in Pakistan. The time has come for the federal government and provincial governments to speak out and to take a strong stand against these murderers to save the very essence of Pakistan." - Farahnaz Ispahani, President's Aide.

Too little too late Mam. I say gather all those liberal humanist voices you say exist and march the hell into Islamabad Karachi and Lahore and demand the blasphemy law be struck down.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:27:32 UTC | #598003

PhilipK's Avatar Comment 15 by PhilipK

As always, it seems to be one step forward and a hundred steps backwards.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:39:18 UTC | #598006

josephor's Avatar Comment 16 by josephor

The savages and religion of peace demonstrating it's way of dealing with reason.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:40:09 UTC | #598007

AsylumWarden's Avatar Comment 17 by AsylumWarden

Comment 8 by Stevehill :

Failed state, beyond hope. Cancel aid, cut diplomatic ties, travel links, terminate visas. They can talk to us again after the civil war is over, if the right side wins.

This time last year, I'd have laid into you for making a remark like that. The way things are going, it's starting to look like a very viable option. Very worrying state of affairs.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:43:20 UTC | #598008

Metamag's Avatar Comment 18 by Metamag

Hm, it looks like muslims are determined to clean house in Pakistan.

Does Pakistan now have the most vile population of all countries on the planet, even more vile than Saudi Arabia?

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:47:15 UTC | #598009

sunbeamforjeebus's Avatar Comment 19 by sunbeamforjeebus

Well at least we know this assassination was not carried out by muslims, as their's is a religion of peace.Pakistan is a poisonous shithole full of corrupt,poisonous people.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:56:19 UTC | #598010

mmurray's Avatar Comment 20 by mmurray

Comment 8 by Stevehill :

Failed state, beyond hope. Cancel aid, cut diplomatic ties, travel links, terminate visas.

They can talk to us again after the civil war is over, if the right side wins.

What about the nuclear weapons?

Michael

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:00:24 UTC | #598011

Nunbeliever's Avatar Comment 21 by Nunbeliever

This country is lost. I feel really sad for all the poor people who might not agree with the fundies but who are trapped in this hell-hole without the means and possibilities to emigrate. The fundies in Pakistan might very well be the first muslim fundies to have access to nuclear weapons. That is definately something to loose sleep over. We can't have that. We just can't have that. Warmongering is definately not my cup of tea, but when we are talking about fundies with nukes I tend to reeavalute my position. The current development in northern Africa and the Middle East has for understandable reasons shifted the media's focus away from Pakistan. Still, I think the situation in Pakistan might very well be the biggest political treat the world has faced since the end of the cold war. We, just can't sit with our arms crossed and wait for a radicalization of Pakistan to happen. There is too much at stake here. Some form of intervention is going to be inevitable. I just hope we intervene while it is not too late.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:00:34 UTC | #598012

Steven Mading's Avatar Comment 22 by Steven Mading

Comment 1 by AtheistEgbert :

A revolution needs to happen in Pakistan.

The difference between what's happening in Pakistan and what happened elsewhere in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya is that in Pakistan the oppression is coming from the bottom up, not from the government.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:08:30 UTC | #598017

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 23 by God fearing Atheist

Comment 20 by mmurray :

Comment 8 by Stevehill :

Failed state, beyond hope. Cancel aid, cut diplomatic ties, travel links, terminate visas.

They can talk to us again after the civil war is over, if the right side wins.

What about the nuclear weapons?

Michael

Hope they are too busy reverting to the bronze age to want to play with their nuclear toys.

Pakistan if fucked. If we can't/won't intervene in Libya, there is no way we get to divert the downward spiral in Pakistan.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:13:56 UTC | #598022

passutoba's Avatar Comment 24 by passutoba

It's a terrible mess indeed....and insane that this threatened man wasn't even provided with security for his commute, which leads one to some very realistic conspiracy theories about the Govt.and ISI.

I think Jinnah would have rather had no Pakistan at all then one like this.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:20:49 UTC | #598026

Bala's Avatar Comment 25 by Bala

Considering the last minister was shot by his own security, I can understand when Mr.Bhatti said

"I cannot trust on security."*

But then he goes onto saying

"I believe that protection can come only from heaven, so these bodyguards can’t save you.".*

Well, neither did heaven.

*from this article.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:33:22 UTC | #598029

shamik05's Avatar Comment 26 by shamik05

This is scary...more so for me being an Indian. The rate at which Pakistan is going it seems a matter of time before these crazies will take control of Pakistan and with it the nukes...and then...who knows........

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:36:46 UTC | #598031

shamik05's Avatar Comment 27 by shamik05

Comment Removed by Author

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:38:52 UTC | #598033

Nick Healey's Avatar Comment 28 by Nick Healey

A point made by Wendy Farts On Her Bible (great name) on the discussion thread about childhood imaginary friends is very pertinent here...

Lurking at the back of the Christian's mind is a terrible suspicion which must be blocked from his conscious awareness at all costs: namely, the suspicion that when he talks to Jesus he is only talking to another part of himself. The Christian's secret suspicion is correct.

The fragility of the crumbling edifice is what leads to defensiveness, taking offense, anger and ultimately murder and jihad. People's egos are too fragile to admit, even to themselves, that their god is merely a childish fantasy friend and they would rather kill anybody and everybody than concede otherwise. A perfect example of this psychology is the murdering of politicians in Pakistan who oppose the ridiculous blasphemy laws. If people truly believed in their god, then they would believe that god would judge blasphemers and apostates and punish them for all eternity. There would be no need for blasphemy laws or human retribution because god would do the judging and punishing of those people. But deep down they know that this is not the case and in order to protect their delusional fantasy they must silence dissent by any means.

Consider this, religious morons...If god can be offended or hurt by us, he is not god.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:49:32 UTC | #598035

mlgatheist's Avatar Comment 29 by mlgatheist

Please remember that Islam is the religion of peace, or so they say.

I have even heard imans telling people that only muslims treat women with respect. They say that all other religions disrespect women, by allowing them to shame themselves by working outside the home and dressing like whores.

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 13:02:17 UTC | #598038

Tanweer's Avatar Comment 30 by Tanweer

Does Pakistan now have the most vile population of all countries on the planet, even more vile than Saudi Arabia?

There are millions of people in Pakistan who will be heart-broken at this, MILLIONS. There are millions, however, who will celebrate.

I'd say numbers-wise it's about half/half.

Now, if someone could actually run the country properly and give the poorest people a decent education, healthcare and a hopeful future, the split might look more like 95/5 (on the right side).

As for revolution in Pakistan...don't give up hope just yet, something (rooted, as so often, in music) is stirring...

http://blog.mtviggy.com/2009/08/27/pakistans-communist-rockers/

http://blog.mtviggy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/laalres1.jpg

People have had enough: of the corruption, of the extremism, of the intolerance, of the violence, of the poverty, of the unspeakable injustice... of it all...

Unfortunately, given the current split, I think a civil war is more likely than a revolution... Any way, I'm backing the Reds (The Laal Brigade as they're calling it)! At least we know they're safe with nukes (they've never used 'em, unlike the Yanks).

Wed, 02 Mar 2011 13:02:39 UTC | #598039