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Scientist Imam threatened over Darwinist views - Comments

retep57's Avatar Comment 1 by retep57

outgrow the evil religion ,don't bother going to any mosque , all religions are false just be normal human being

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:08:28 UTC | #599329

Presto2112's Avatar Comment 2 by Presto2112

See, Islam is all about submission. In this case, submission to people who threaten to kill you.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:14:25 UTC | #599330

Bernard Hurley's Avatar Comment 3 by Bernard Hurley

But in recent years a small number of orthodox scholars, mainly from Saudi Arabia – where many clerics still preach that the Sun revolves around the Earth – have ruled against evolution, declaring that belief in the concept goes against the Koran's statement that Adam and Eve were the first humans.

The Sun revolves round the Earth? What heresy! Surely the earth is flat!

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:16:07 UTC | #599331

JumpinJackFlash's Avatar Comment 4 by JumpinJackFlash

He was guilty of thoughtcrime thus he must die.

Utterly ridiculous.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:18:44 UTC | #599333

ajs261's Avatar Comment 5 by ajs261

So pathetic. Things like this should show any rational, educated person, just how outdated religion is. Not only have the rest of the world accepted evolution for the best part of a century but we don't threaten with violence anyone who disagrees.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:22:51 UTC | #599334

sanban's Avatar Comment 6 by sanban

From the article:

More than a millennium before Darwin, Muslim scientists had posited ideas about species survival and generational change that bore striking similarities to Darwin's eventual theory.

It's the Independent, but I still expected better.

Let's see if I've got this right: this is a scientist still immersed in the god delusion, complaining about the harsh judgment of those that pronounce in the name of his imaginary friend. He's kowtowing in hopes of being allowed back to play.

Also, why is the police not taking action against the men who have made the death threats? Is that no longer against the law in Britain?

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:24:17 UTC | #599335

DocWebster's Avatar Comment 7 by DocWebster

Idiots studying hard, and failing, to be morons. Nothing to see here.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:28:52 UTC | #599337

Cinaed's Avatar Comment 8 by Cinaed

Comment 6 by sanban :

From the article:

More than a millennium before Darwin, Muslim scientists had posited ideas about species survival and generational change that bore striking similarities to Darwin's eventual theory.

It's the Independent, but I still expected better.

Let's see if I've got this right: this is a scientist still immersed in the god delusion, complaining about the harsh judgment of those that pronounce in the name of his imaginary friend. He's kowtowing in hopes of being allowed back to play.

Also, why is the police not taking action against the men who have made the death threats? Is that no longer against the law in Britain?

No that would be culturally intolerant and racist.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:31:48 UTC | #599338

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 9 by aquilacane

I would have rather he retract his statement that he's an imam who follows Islam. Of course, then they would actually kill him. Nothing new here, just add it to the pile of steaming horse shit that is religion.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:51:56 UTC | #599343

Eyerish's Avatar Comment 10 by Eyerish

Reason and truth, zero. Stupidity and fundies, one. These morons forced an intelligent person to change his mind, and the intelligent person is weak because he did not have the courage of his knowledge to say that these whack jobs are simply wrong.

This is a shameful act by the scientist - that is to betray what he knows to be genuinely true. In this case it is evolution that is true and he knows it.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:52:37 UTC | #599346

inquisador's Avatar Comment 11 by inquisador

Very interesting...

I chanced upon this Salafi site which seems to devote much space to this specific story, though I have yet to read far into it.

Bernard Hurley:

Have you seen this Iraqi scientist who believes in a flat earth?

It's in the Koran, you know!

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:57:49 UTC | #599348

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 12 by Richard Dawkins

Also, why is the police not taking action against the men who have made the death threats? Is that no longer against the law in Britain?

No that would be culturally intolerant and racist.

Also Islamophobic. How dare the police interfere with the cultural practice of murdering apostates? Next thing you know, they'll be be trying to stop them throwing acid at their wives and setting fire to their daughters. Let's have some RESPECT, please.

Richard

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:58:48 UTC | #599349

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 13 by Jos Gibbons

A prominent British imam

Neither prominence nor Westernisation stems the violent tide of the religion of peace.

has been forced to retract his claims that Islam is compatible with Darwin's theory of evolution after receiving death threats from fundamentalists.

Not only do these Islamists dislike an idea, however much evidence may support it, should it be incompatible with their pre–existing opinions, but they do not welcome attempts at some form of reconciliation, i.e. even their pre–existing opinions regarding the implications of their pre–existing opinions are held to in an intolerantly close–minded manner. This is worrying.

a physics lecturer at Middlesex University and a fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society

This Muslim is a scientist, and accepts areas of science which his work doesn’t require, and does all of this despite the possible incentive he may have as an Imam to think otherwise. I’ve got to admit that’s all pretty laudable.

police advised him not to attend after becoming concerned for his safety.

Remember, this is in the UK.

I seek Allah's forgiveness for my mistakes and apologise for any offence caused

It’s one thing to say something with which your religion disagrees, but apparently now you can’t even suggest something doesn’t disagree with your religion.

discrediting imams whom they deem to be overly progressive or "western orientated"

It seems integration into the West isn’t their priority; far from it. One wonders what may be the implications of this for multiculturalism.

Hasan detailed why evolution and Islam are compatible – a position not unusual among many Islamic scholars with scientific backgrounds

Does anyone know of any data which confirms (or refutes) this?

One man came up to me during the lecture and said 'You are an apostate and should be killed'

If they must have apostasy as a capital offence, could they please not broaden its definition any further? Hasan is clearly a Muslim.

Dr Hasan had been dismissed from his position as vice-chairman and imam at the mosque

While Christianity has sometimes had a troubled history with evolution, I don’t think it ever took a form like this.

source of antagonism in the Muslim community

Does the British Muslim community have any concept of agreeing to disagree, or respectfully disagreeing with another’s opinion? Perhaps. How well do these unelected leaders really speak for them? Probably not as far as they claim. It would be helpful to know for whom Hasan speaks. I don’t think he claims to speak for anyone other than himself.

Evolution "is not a matter of belief/disbelief," said Hasan, "and people are free to accept or reject a particular scientific theory."

Ah. Not quite as level–headed in its second half as I was hoping.

He also attacked clerics who made pronouncements about science they didn't understand, declaring that "any such fatwas about science from people ignorant of the subject matter are null and void."

Better!

Like Christianity, Islamic opinion is divided over evolution.

Though with Islam it’s apparently more 1–sided.

More than a millennium before Darwin, Muslim scientists had posited ideas about species survival and generational change that bore striking similarities to Darwin's eventual theory.

I’d like to be my own judge of whether the similarities not described herein really were “striking”. Did these scientists come up with natural selection, speciation, common ancestry or heredity?

Most Islamic scholars have little problem with evolution as long as Muslims accept the supremacy of God in the process.

Really?

Saudi Arabia – where many clerics still preach that the Sun revolves around the Earth

Wow.

belief in evolution goes against the Koran's statement that Adam and Eve were the first humans

Maybe it’s not so different from the Christian situation after all.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:00:28 UTC | #599350

TheRationalizer's Avatar Comment 14 by TheRationalizer

I want to go back – I've been going to the mosque for 25 years. It is my favourite mosque in London, and I have been active in the community for a long time. I hope my positive contribution will outweigh their feelings towards me

And there we see an example of truth being defined by popular opinion rather than empirical evidence.

If a Muslim receives death threats for believing something different from the status quo, how can there possibly be something such as a "Muslim scientist" that I hear about so often in youtube discussions?

Personally, I'd like to hear his talk. I wonder if it is online somewhere, does anyone know?

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:05:25 UTC | #599353

sanban's Avatar Comment 15 by sanban

Dr Hasan had been dismissed from his position as vice-chairman and imam at the mosque

While Christianity has sometimes had a troubled history with evolution, I don’t think it ever took a form like this.

I think you're giving Christians too much credit! There have been and still are many places where a Christian daren't teach that evolution is the means by which humans came to be. Didn't Scopes lose his job over it? Aren't there a huge percentage of biology teachers in America hedging on evolution, probably in fear for their jobs, and their community's disapprobation?

Still, it's deeply worrying that, in the UK today, police give advice to avoid people that have threatened your life, rather than arresting them! Is there any way to raise the issue with the police complaints body?

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:13:46 UTC | #599354

colluvial's Avatar Comment 16 by colluvial

. . . Muslims who use evolution as a way of discrediting imams whom they deem to be overly progressive or "western orientated".

Did the idea that progressiveness or western-orientation is inherently evil originate among Muslims living in the west, or is this what visiting imams from non-western countries tell their fawning adherents? In any case, perhaps they should consider that the reason they emigrated might be connected to these fundamentalist ideas.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:28:33 UTC | #599358

chawinwords's Avatar Comment 17 by chawinwords

Oh hell, for a thousand years or more, Christianity was the same and just as evil. And many so-called Christians would love to return to those days or to mimic the death-dealing power of the fundamentalist Muslim crackpot clerics of today. It takes a long time for the contents of a large outhouse to totally disappear -- after the final deposits are finally made.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:38:06 UTC | #599364

TheRationalizer's Avatar Comment 18 by TheRationalizer

It seems that Islam & science works like this

If the science corroborates the Quran then all praise be to Allah, for science has proven the Quran to be His word and Muhammad (salla walla falla) His messenger.

If the science falsifies the Quran then science is wrong and we just need to wait for science to catch up with the Quran. Anyone who says otherwise should be killed.

Imagine if the rest of humanity had taken the same approach to science. We'd be backward.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:39:19 UTC | #599365

bethe123's Avatar Comment 19 by bethe123

But according to his sister, police advised him not to attend after becoming concerned for his safety. Instead his father, Suhaib, head of the mosque's committee of trustees, posted a notice on his behalf expressing regret over his comments. "I seek Allah's forgiveness for my mistakes and apologise for any offence caused," the statement read.

This is happening in the UK? Another impressive success of multiculturalism.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:41:49 UTC | #599367

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 20 by rod-the-farmer

"Western orientated" ? Good grief. Try Western oriented. The verb is "to orient (as in, oneself). The noun is orientation. No such word as orientated. Next we will read of "preventative" medicine. A lot like "He is quite an inventative fellow".

We need a spell check feature that, should you type one of these linguistic stutters, it erases your document instantly. It would only correct typos like tihs.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:48:26 UTC | #599369

inquisador's Avatar Comment 21 by inquisador

comment 20 by rod-the-farmer:

How very pedantatic of you.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 14:55:02 UTC | #599370

inquisador's Avatar Comment 22 by inquisador

There is much more on this at Aqidah.com.

Including a link to an article in the Guardian by Hasan.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:00:02 UTC | #599373

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 23 by rod-the-farmer

Comment 11 has an interesting link. I suggest any who try it take something in advance, to help you avoid the headache likely to result from what could be described as an intellectual Gordian knot. The writer could never be dissuaded from his tortured belief system. Too much work.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:06:01 UTC | #599374

some asshole's Avatar Comment 24 by some asshole

Hasan is an asshole. He's worse than the full-blown nutball Muslims because he wears a mask of moderation and acceptance of truth. But in actuality, all he does is grease the wheels for the nutjobs by trying to make Islam look like a reasonable worldview. There's nothing reasonable about believing in magic.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:53:36 UTC | #599382

Stevezar's Avatar Comment 25 by Stevezar

Comment 23 by rod-the-farmer :

Comment 11 has an interesting link. I suggest any who try it take something in advance, to help you avoid the headache likely to result from what could be described as an intellectual Gordian knot. The writer could never be dissuaded from his tortured belief system. Too much work.

I could only think of one thing I could have taken that would have avoided the headache. However, cyanide is not available over-the-counter.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 16:06:20 UTC | #599386

Paula Kirby's Avatar Comment 26 by Paula Kirby

rod-the-farmer: "Western orientated" ? Good grief. Try Western oriented. The verb is "to orient (as in, oneself). The noun is orientation. No such word as orientated. Next we will read of "preventative" medicine. A lot like "He is quite an inventative fellow". We need a spell check feature that, should you type one of these linguistic stutters, it erases your document instantly. It would only correct typos like tihs.

Actually, 'orientate' is a verb: the correct one, indeed, in British English. Same with 'preventative', which is the correct British English form.

As a British speaker of English, the North American variants of such terms grate on my ears and sound just as hideous as the British ones do to you. It pains me to have to live and let live on such matters, since the beauty of the English language (at its best) is close to my heart, but nonetheless, that is the reality of a world where English exists in a variety of different forms.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 16:32:45 UTC | #599394

InYourFaceNewYorker's Avatar Comment 27 by InYourFaceNewYorker

I had a dream last night that I was on a New York City subway-- the C line, to be exact, with intentions of transferring to the F at Jay Street-- and someone on the subway started talking about how he thought some Muslim fundies might have planted some bombs inside dead fish and put them on the subway. So at Jay Street the subway train stopped and the station was evacuated. I was running like hell and thinking, "I HATE Islam."

I guess that makes me racist and intolerant! :P

Julie

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 16:44:55 UTC | #599400

Dover Beach's Avatar Comment 28 by Dover Beach

This is intolerable! That a British citizen should have his life threatened by fanatics and the only respose of the police is to warn him to avoid going to the place where his potential assassins are known to be is simply appalling and unacceptable. Surely there has to be zero tolerance of any attempt at restricting freedom of ideas or the creation of no-go areas where our lives are at threat. If we are incapable of standing up to such outrageous infringements of our civil liberties then the future looks very bleak. Is there a way we can register our anger and dismay at the pusillanimous reaction of the police force?

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 17:13:47 UTC | #599406

Marc Country's Avatar Comment 29 by Marc Country

"lslamophobic" is a term that should apply to those people who seek to appease, not oppose, the Islamists, since it is obvious such concessions are made out of fear.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 17:16:48 UTC | #599407

The Plc's Avatar Comment 30 by The Plc

Ugh, what a sick cult.

Why doesn't this scientist just leave their absurd religion and live as a freer person? I'm sure he's smart enough to see through the ridiculousness of religious beliefs.

Sun, 06 Mar 2011 17:20:03 UTC | #599408