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← [UPDATE] Legislation to repeal Louisiana Creationism Law

[UPDATE] Legislation to repeal Louisiana Creationism Law - Comments

Consciousmess's Avatar Comment 1 by Consciousmess

Now that is good to see - let's hope there is some real shaking up of Creationists!!

Jon

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 08:26:17 UTC | #616648

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 2 by Alan4discussion

........ while still at High School, decided to take on the state branch of (what Isaac Asimov called) the cavemen of creationism.

Clearly these moronic legislators of cave-man mentality, should be sent back to high school (or infant school?) and educated. Are there suitable schools for pupils with learning difficulties?

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 08:46:29 UTC | #616657

Austin K's Avatar Comment 3 by Austin K

The teaching of Evolution is sound science and is also compatible with religious faith, a position that is supported by all mainline religious denominations.

I know this probably isn't all that important in this context, but is that truly the case with Islam? Taking into account all the divisions in Christianity, don't Sunnis represent the world's largest religious denomination? Do they accept Evolution? Again, just a technicality.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 09:07:36 UTC | #616660

SomersetJohn's Avatar Comment 4 by SomersetJohn

Comment 2 by Austin K :

I know this probably isn't all that important in this context, but is that truly the case with Islam? Taking into account all the divisions in Christianity, don't Sunnis represent the world's largest religious denomination? Do they accept Evolution? Again, just a technicality.

My immediate reaction on reading this was "Don't rock the boat." The point is a distraction to the main thrust of the argument.

Then I got the idea, with the current ill feeling towards Islam in the US, maybe this is a weapon against creationism. Push the point that Islam is almost the only religion which agrees with the creatards, on evolution, on divine punishment and on sustained irrational hatred of those who do not agree with the party line.

Maybe showing that creatards are closet Islamists with a different name (a bit like creationism and ((un))intellligent design) might dissuade some from joining that unhappy band.

I know this would not be entirely honest, but that never stopped the creatards before.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 09:24:16 UTC | #616661

ajs261's Avatar Comment 5 by ajs261

What an extraordinary guy. It seems shocking though, living in Britain, that a secondary school student should have to do this!

I feel sorry for the freethinkers in the deep South.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 09:50:18 UTC | #616665

KenChimp's Avatar Comment 6 by KenChimp

What an extraordinary guy. It seems shocking though, living in Britain, that a secondary school student should have to do this! I feel sorry for the freethinkers in the deep South.

Indeed it is. When I was in middle school, we had to have a waiver signed by our parents for us to participate in a discussion on evolution by natural selection.

Thankfully in the 1980s, the state of Florida improved. Evolution was taught in high school biology rather unapologetically.

Now my own state has one of these creatard whackos attempting to push this moronic agenda yet again. Senator Wise of the Florida State Senate is about as far from his name's suggested state of mind as is possible, yet he represents people within my state and somehow got himself on the Senate Committee for Education!

Reading and watching news of a high school student in Louisiana taking his own state government to task on science and reason is quite refreshing!

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:05:28 UTC | #616667

Quetzalcoatlus's Avatar Comment 7 by Quetzalcoatlus

Comment 2 by Austin K :

The teaching of Evolution is sound science and is also compatible with religious faith, a position that is supported by all mainline religious denominations.

I know this probably isn't all that important in this context, but is that truly the case with Islam? Taking into account all the divisions in Christianity, don't Sunnis represent the world's largest religious denomination? Do they accept Evolution? Again, just a technicality.

Some muslims groups do for example the group that runs and maintains http://www.webislam.com/. There are also several imams that do not find incompatibility with evolution, mainly from nothern Africa.

However many others do not accept evolution. And as Islam does not have "an official" position, there is not a clear answer to your question.

Anyway, I do not see how evolution can be compatible with any religion.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:42:20 UTC | #616672

The Plc's Avatar Comment 8 by The Plc

Where can I find a list of the Nobel Lauretes who support the repeal?

Yes, I know this should be a minor quibble that detracts from the force of the case against repeal, but what does it matter that all mainstream religions accept the facts of science? It has nothing to do with any of the principles here.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:50:51 UTC | #616673

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 9 by Richard Dawkins

Where can I find a list of the Nobel Lauretes who support the repeal?

Zack's covering letter says the following:

We're dropping our Nobel Laureate letter on Tuesday (38 signatures so far, aiming to have 40+ by then) and then dropping independent endorsements Wednesday. We also are planning a rally for April 28th, and we'll have a live stream up then.

I assume that 'Tuesday' means April 19th.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 11:11:25 UTC | #616675

critica's Avatar Comment 10 by critica

'Cavemen' indeed. They would take us screaming back to the stone age, wailing to their mad gods while we degenerate into a species befuddled by mysticism, distrusting our own minds. Enemies of reason and of civilisation.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 11:25:04 UTC | #616677

Vicktor's Avatar Comment 11 by Vicktor

Comment 2 by Austin K

I know this probably isn't all that important in this context, but is that truly the case with Islam? Taking into account all the divisions in Christianity, don't Sunnis represent the world's largest religious denomination? Do they accept Evolution? Again, just a technicality.

No. Muslims do not... cannot... accept evolution. They cannot even accept that it's okay if you don't pray 5 times a day and fast for a month in Ramadhan. I think it's pretty obvious to them that God - as they understand him - doesn't need to run a genetic algorithm for billions of years just to get us.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:25:10 UTC | #616690

mmurray's Avatar Comment 12 by mmurray

Comment 9 by Vicktor :

No. Muslims do not... cannot... accept evolution.

The Ahmadiyya sect of Islam do accept that evolution occurred but under divine influence.

Michael

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:29:09 UTC | #616691

Vicktor's Avatar Comment 13 by Vicktor

Comment 10 by mmurray

But they still insist you pray and fast. What good does it do them to accept evolution?

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:34:19 UTC | #616695

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 14 by AtheistEgbert

These young grassroot politically active atheists are a total inspiration. There have been so many popping up all over the place, challenging defiantly against their community majority and authorities. This is a display of real courage that has to be admired.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:48:24 UTC | #616700

Quetzalcoatlus's Avatar Comment 15 by Quetzalcoatlus

Comment 9 by Vicktor :

Comment 2 by Austin K

I know this probably isn't all that important in this context, but is that truly the case with Islam? Taking into account all the divisions in Christianity, don't Sunnis represent the world's largest religious denomination? Do they accept Evolution? Again, just a technicality.

No. Muslims do not... cannot... accept evolution. They cannot even accept that it's okay if you don't pray 5 times a day and fast for a month in Ramadhan. I think it's pretty obvious to them that God - as they understand him - doesn't need to run a genetic algorithm for billions of years just to get us.

What is the relation with the fact that the pray 5 times per day and that they do accept or not evolution?

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:49:41 UTC | #616702

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 16 by God fearing Atheist

Go Zack go!

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:55:13 UTC | #616704

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 17 by rod-the-farmer

Can we get volunteer scientists to speak on evolution in the local churches ? Turnabout seems fair play to me....

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 13:07:46 UTC | #616707

Vicktor's Avatar Comment 18 by Vicktor

Comment 13 by Quetzalcoatlus

What is the relation with the fact that the pray 5 times per day and that they do accept or not evolution?

In the sense of how accepting the truth of evolution is supposed to help these guys. What is the point of claiming "progress" by accepting evolution when you still believe in a god that demands tremendous amounts of worship and will punish you if you don't appease him? Sounds like even the relatively few Muslims who do accept evolution are putting the cart before the horse.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 13:10:04 UTC | #616708

Quetzalcoatlus's Avatar Comment 19 by Quetzalcoatlus

Comment 16 by Vicktor :

Comment 13 by Quetzalcoatlus

What is the relation with the fact that the pray 5 times per day and that they do accept or not evolution?

In the sense of how accepting the truth of evolution is supposed to help these guys. What is the point of claiming "progress" by accepting evolution when you still believe in a god that demands tremendous amounts of worship and will punish you if you don't appease him? Sounds like even the relatively few Muslims who do accept evolution are putting the cart before the horse.

Still there is a number of muslims that accept evolution, but it is directed by God. So it is some kind of gradual intelligent design. For example, God choses when species evolve into other species, and the natural selection is imposed by God to conserve the natural equilibrium.

Actually, an arab phylosopher proposed a "God directed" evolutive model (Al Jahiz 776-869 aD), long time before Darwin's theory.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 13:41:30 UTC | #616714

Danny Wuvs Kittens's Avatar Comment 20 by Danny Wuvs Kittens

Highest religiousity in the country, highest violent crime rate, and they're undermining science. What a surprise.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:43:02 UTC | #616726

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 21 by Stevehill

board member David Tate said: “We let them teach evolution to our children, but I think all of us sitting up here on this School Board believe in Creationism. Why can’t we get someone with religious beliefs to teach Creationism?”

Because, Mister Tate, you're a dumb, redneck, pig-ignorant fuckwit who should be kept a million miles from other people's children on account of the abuse you aim to inflict upon them.

You exemplify why your country needs a constitution. To keep morons like you on a leash.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 16:04:28 UTC | #616755

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 22 by Stevehill

board member David Tate said: “We let them teach evolution to our children, but I think all of us sitting up here on this School Board believe in Creationism. Why can’t we get someone with religious beliefs to teach Creationism?”

Because, Mister Tate, you're a dumb, redneck, pig-ignorant fuckwit who should be kept a million miles from other people's children on account of the abuse you aim to inflict upon them.

You exemplify why your country needs a constitution. To keep morons like you on a leash.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 16:06:08 UTC | #616757

Metamag's Avatar Comment 23 by Metamag

The teaching of Evolution is sound science and is also compatible with religious faith, a position that is >supported by all mainline religious denominations.

Can someone explain to us how the hell is evolution compatible with any of the dogmatic content of christianity?

Or if compatible means "secular modernity and science forces people to ignore the dogmatic content of christianity so as to not look foolish"..

If latter is the case it would be nice if in the future that distinction is made at every opportunity.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 16:30:32 UTC | #616763

KenChimp's Avatar Comment 24 by KenChimp

Because, Mister Tate, you're a dumb, redneck, pig-ignorant fuckwit who should be kept a million miles from other people's children on account of the abuse you aim to inflict upon them.

You exemplify why your country needs a constitution. To keep morons like you on a leash.

Right on. IMNSHO, all countries need constitutional provisions to protect liberty. The trouble is, apparently none of these charters have any bite. Ours doesn't. The U.S. government has been enacting illegal legislation for decades in spite of very clear Constitutional provisions and amendments.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:06:13 UTC | #616791

SheilaC's Avatar Comment 25 by SheilaC

Zack for president!

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:46:45 UTC | #616809

JETrue's Avatar Comment 26 by JETrue

This has got to stop! I think we need to cut this from the Federal Level! How does the 'Church' somehow keep eeking its way back into our lives! You don't see people trying to hold prayer groups at work and imposing their superstitions on to others within their work place! People at your work have their beliefs established. They have already chosen what they believe. So, they got keep their poison coming at a steady dosage until they have to accept it out of shear ignorance and tradition! Our schools in America aren't the only thing being corrupted. Supposedly these nut cases found enough money to build a museum!!! It boggles the mind my friends! Check it out! http://creationmuseum.org/

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 19:37:05 UTC | #616826

I'm_not's Avatar Comment 27 by I'm_not

Zack for President.

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:33:51 UTC | #616846

EndymionK's Avatar Comment 28 by EndymionK

I really can't stand all this discussion about Evolution here in American schools anymore. What is there to discuss about?

People who oppose teaching it in the classroom are ignorant and must be prevented from having any public influences. They harm society, our children and the advances we make to reduce human suffering. It makes me sick.

In that light, I am glad to see someone like Zack Kopplin. He gives me hope for the future.

Tue, 19 Apr 2011 03:40:34 UTC | #616958

zengardener's Avatar Comment 29 by zengardener

Huzzah!!!

Tue, 19 Apr 2011 04:58:37 UTC | #616970

Murtaugh7's Avatar Comment 30 by Murtaugh7

I really hope Zack kicks ass at this. I have a son of my own and it's been difficult with a believer as a wife (as is most of my and her families are) and myself an atheist trying to explain the truth of just simple human origins to my son when he's being fed the god and bible bullshit even at school. I really hope I live to see the day that either evolution is one of the MAIN courses taught in schools or at least my kid will live long enough to see it. Abolish religion... It foments trouble. People can't hide from the truth for long and with how scientific evidence for evolution is already indisputable and it just keeps piling up, "god" is running out of places to hide for explanations.

Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:05:26 UTC | #616988