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← John Paul II's coffin brought out before beatification

John Paul II's coffin brought out before beatification - Comments

TrickyDicky's Avatar Comment 1 by TrickyDicky

Now if the Italians arrest Magabe that would be a miracle!

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 09:06:05 UTC | #620959

Corylus's Avatar Comment 2 by Corylus

The Vatican has confirmed Zimbabwe's controversial President, Robert Mugabe, will attend despite an EU travel ban.

That's nice.

He could bring some of his own "dead men's bones" with him in case they run low.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 09:30:20 UTC | #620962

valla's Avatar Comment 3 by valla

Comment 1 by TrickyDicky :

Now if the Italians arrest Magabe that would be a miracle!

Italy cannot do that, the Concordat between Italy and the Vatican prevents it.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 09:39:28 UTC | #620964

BowDownToGizmo's Avatar Comment 4 by BowDownToGizmo

The Catholic Church - Harbouring the world's most wanted criminals since the 1st century AD

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:01:52 UTC | #620971

Vogon42's Avatar Comment 5 by Vogon42

I hope they issue a photo of Mugabe and Benny together - two men who share the same ethical, moral and spiritual values. Mugabe surely provides a splendid illustration of Christian values in action.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:08:33 UTC | #620974

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 6 by Alan4discussion

Comment 3 by valla

Comment 1 by TrickyDicky :

Now if the Italians arrest Magabe that would be a miracle!

Italy cannot do that, the Concordat between Italy and the Vatican prevents it.

Now come on! The Vatican can't be expected to take a moral stance on dictators or war criminals! More like doing deals with them to promote them as good Catholics helping to spread the faith under the "Concordat"!

ROME, Feb. 11.--The Pope is again an independent sovereign ruler, as he was throughout the Middle Ages, though his temporal realm, established today, is the most microscopic independent State in the world, and probably the smallest in all history. — THE NEW YORK TIMES, Tuesday, February 12, 1929.

Benito Mussolini reads his credentials prior to signing the Lateran Treaty on behalf of King Victor Emmanuel III. Cardinal Gasparri (seated), signed on behalf of Pope Pius XI.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:22:38 UTC | #620977

Save me jebuz!'s Avatar Comment 7 by Save me jebuz!

Flagged. Move on folks, nothing to see here.....

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:23:11 UTC | #620978

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 8 by Alan4discussion

Beatification is a step towards declaring the late pontiff a saint.

I suppose it confirms the BATTY-FICATION of the rest of the woo addled outfit!

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:28:03 UTC | #620981

sunbeamforjeebus's Avatar Comment 9 by sunbeamforjeebus

Dead bodies,coffins, blood and hair samples and they deny they are a death cult! FFS!

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:56:15 UTC | #620984

Cartomancer's Avatar Comment 10 by Cartomancer

It's all frightfully medieval, this mucking about with corpses and coffins lark. You'd think that a religion with pretensions to sophistication (well, with pretensions anyway) would have long since moved away from these obvious hangovers from the time when religion was just another form of sympathetic or apotropaic magic. But no, there they are, bold as brass, waving their reliquaries for all to see.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:04:47 UTC | #620989

Hendrix is my gOD's Avatar Comment 11 by Hendrix is my gOD

Comment 7 by Alan4discussion

The Pope is again an independent sovereign ruler, as he was throughout the Middle Ages, though his temporal realm, established today, is the most microscopic independent State in the world, and probably the smallest in all history.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all of the residents of the Vatican are leaders of the church and I assume no-one else is allowed to live there.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:30:00 UTC | #620992

josephor's Avatar Comment 12 by josephor

A lovely gathering of mass murderers, child molesters thieves and cowards, being cheered on by the deluded.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:37:39 UTC | #620995

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 13 by Alan4discussion

Comment 15 by Hendrix is my gOD

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all of the residents of the Vatican are leaders of the church and I assume no-one else is allowed to live there.

I don't know. I was just pointing out that Mugabe's immunity from EC bans in Italy derives from a deal done by the Vatican and Mussolini!

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:59:53 UTC | #620999

sciencehead78's Avatar Comment 14 by sciencehead78

Good to see the British Monarchy propping up the whole show. Anyone else find monarchs as ridiculous as popes?

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 12:51:20 UTC | #621010

Bishopess's Avatar Comment 15 by Bishopess

Comment Removed by Author

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 12:59:39 UTC | #621014

NickD's Avatar Comment 16 by NickD

Comment 14 by Cartomancer :

It's all frightfully medieval, this mucking about with corpses and coffins lark. But no, there they are, bold as brass, waving their reliquaries for all to see.

And somewhat smelly too I imagine. The Health & Safety types would have a field day!

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:11:02 UTC | #621018

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 17 by Stevehill

The Vatican has confirmed Zimbabwe's controversial President, Robert Mugabe, will attend despite an EU travel ban.

Why would the Vatican give a fuck about what 500 million EU citizens think is the moral thing to do?

Arseholes.

Still, since the Vatican has no airport, there's a pretty open question about what Berlusconi thinks he's doing letting Mugabe travel via Italy. Again.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:20:05 UTC | #621023

Philster61's Avatar Comment 18 by Philster61

The Vatican is only following its traditional role of Catholic first, Criminals second doctrine....Allowing Mugabe to attend is no surprise.. He will probably take confession before thus erasing any responsibility...This is the legacy of the Catholic Church.... sin-confess-sin-confess.... As long as Mugabe is "truly repentant" in the eyes of the Church he will be absolved of any crime.....And of course Italy will comply...The Vatican is in a win win situation....

Its interesting how the International community breaks off relations with third world dictatorships that commit heinous crimes, but refuse to do anything about the the Vatican and its own crimes....It is now about to harbor a fugitive and in true form it will absolve itself of any responsibility.... History's most blatant and biggest criminal organization....

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:29:18 UTC | #621029

FishSci's Avatar Comment 19 by FishSci

It's ""Bring out yer dead" day in the Vatican again?

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:37:18 UTC | #621033

Philster61's Avatar Comment 20 by Philster61

"Still, since the Vatican has no airport, there's a pretty open question about what Berlusconi thinks he's doing letting Mugabe travel via Italy. Again."

Mugabe is probably bringing an entourage of 17 year old strippers to keep Silivo preoccupied

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:42:53 UTC | #621036

Donna M's Avatar Comment 21 by Donna M

I don't know why they bothered burying the man in the first place if they knew they were going to dig him up again in a few years. Why not leave his rotting corpse on public display (they've done it before) for everybody to prostrate themselves in front of? I have a feeling this death-obsessed cult would have quite enjoyed that.

They really are the creepiest bunch of people. I was raised Roman Catholic and can remember being terrified, aged 12, at my mother's funeral. It was all spooky incense waving, incantations and hidden bells ringing - not to mention all the comments about spirits and ghosts. I wasn't allowed to attend her burial in case I found it "disturbing". I'd have found that a hell of a lot less disturbing than The Exorcist-style service.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:56:24 UTC | #621044

mmurray's Avatar Comment 22 by mmurray

Comment 23 by FishSci :

It's ""Bring out yer dead" day in the Vatican again?

A few years back they flew the Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati's coffin out for the euphemistically named "World Youth Day 2008" which is really "World Catholic Youth Day".

Michael

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:59:25 UTC | #621046

danconquer's Avatar Comment 23 by danconquer

I suppose it is just as well from their point of view that the Vatican is a state in its own right, because this sort of insane behaviour (exhuming and interfering with the graves of the recently deceased without good reason) is a criminal activity in every other real EU state.

The Vatican are afraid of upsetting Mugabe, for the same reason they are friendly with any number of despots in Africa: Because he might otherwise convert to some other branch of Christianity, and would doubtless take alot of Zimbabweans with him

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:00:16 UTC | #621047

mmurray's Avatar Comment 24 by mmurray

Comment 25 by Donna M :

I don't know why they bothered burying the man in the first place if they knew they were going to dig him up again in a few years. Why not leave his rotting corpse on public display (they've done it before) for everybody to prostrate themselves in front of? I have a feeling this death-obsessed cult would have quite enjoyed that.

They didn't dig it up. You can see in the video on the BBC site the report above links to that his body is in a wooden coffin in a stone hole in the crypt. So you just slide the lid off the stone hole and lift out the coffin. I assume the coffin is lead lined or maybe he is going to be another miracle corpse that never decays.

Michael

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:04:11 UTC | #621049

sanban's Avatar Comment 25 by sanban

Cartomancer, do you mind if I borrow this?

Comment 14 by Cartomancer :
It's all frightfully medieval, this mucking about with corpses and coffins lark. You'd think that a religion with pretensions to sophistication (well, with pretensions anyway) would have long since moved away from these obvious hangovers from the time when religion was just another form of sympathetic or apotropaic magic. But no, there they are, bold as brass, waving their reliquaries for all to see.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:08:54 UTC | #621053

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 26 by God fearing Atheist

The beatification is just a load of silly old fools being silly old fools. The Mugabe business sticks in my throat.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:12:54 UTC | #621056

Donna M's Avatar Comment 27 by Donna M

Comment 28 by mmurray :

Comment 25 by Donna M :

I don't know why they bothered burying the man in the first place if they knew they were going to dig him up again in a few years. Why not leave his rotting corpse on public display (they've done it before) for everybody to prostrate themselves in front of? I have a feeling this death-obsessed cult would have quite enjoyed that.

They didn't dig it up.

Well, yes, Michael....but I was really commenting on the general idea of bringing him back up at all. Still pretty gross and unnecessary however they went about it.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 15:20:31 UTC | #621081

godsbelow's Avatar Comment 28 by godsbelow

Comment 27 by danconquer :

The Vatican are afraid of upsetting Mugabe, for the same reason they are friendly with any number of despots in Africa: Because he might otherwise convert to some other branch of Christianity, and would doubtless take alot of Zimbabweans with him

Interestingly, Mugabe has just recently condemned the Catholic church in Zimbabwe, the local leadership of which has criticised him repeatedly, at a gathering of an indigenous Christian sect. Earlier this year, Mugabe was threatened with excommunication for delivering a sermon at another non-Catholic church service and for endorsing polygamy.

So, in fact, Mugabe has already turned to other branches of Christianity, to the home-grown African churches such as the Mapostori and the Zion Christian Church, for support. These sects have large memberships and their leaders have been more ammenable to Mugabe than the leaders of the Catholic and mainstream Protestant churches have been.

The local Catholic leadership isn't exactly thrilled about this, but evidently the Vatican doesn't particularly care. Maybe it's because only about 8 or 9 percent of the population is Catholic - not big enough numbers to worry about.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 15:37:40 UTC | #621089

Scruddy Bleensaver's Avatar Comment 29 by Scruddy Bleensaver

I'd like all you cynics to know that praying to JP2 cured a bad case of piles I had. I can't see how you could possibly argue with sainthood for the man after that.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:46:26 UTC | #621115

fuzzylogic's Avatar Comment 30 by fuzzylogic

I will be in Rome for this on vacation. The timing is a coincidence. Will be interesting.

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:23:20 UTC | #621136