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Anonymous's Avatar Comment 1 by Anonymous

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Sun, 26 Jun 2011 13:48:13 UTC | #842858

Jay G's Avatar Comment 2 by Jay G

I started that thread and I want a percentage of the gross.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:14:48 UTC | #842869

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 3 by Richard Dawkins

Please feel free to add to Ignorant Amos's examples, for each of the words in bold.

Richard

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:17:43 UTC | #842871

TobySaunders's Avatar Comment 4 by TobySaunders

all good points, but the drug reference should be brought up: "I am away to get drunk on alcohol", that phrase is, in scientific terms, no different from "I'm away to get stoned on opium" or heroin... alcohol is as hard a drug as there is, and yet, if the person were to have typed, "I'm going to snort some cocaine" that would be seen as 'so taboo'. Cocaine is actually less dangerous than alcohol though! -clearly the culture of drug use is entirely screwy... people, mostly, can not use cannabis legally & without breaking perverse cultural taboo, so they're driven to do damage with alcohol... In closing, drugs should be legal & alcohol should not be so acceptable... it is, largely, a bad drug. Had the guy closed the piece with "I'm going to use cannabis" then that would be rather praise-worthy, but heavy alcohol use is wrong and should be seen as equal to heavy heroin use, or heavy oxycodone use, or use of any other comparable CNS depressant. -great summary though, sure

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:19:41 UTC | #842875

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 5 by Ignorant Amos

I did come back after the pub and finish off the bit's I left out.

From the original thread...

Meglamanical megalomania (ˌmɛɡələʊˈmeɪnɪə)

— n 1. a mental illness characterized by delusions of grandeur, power, wealth, etc 2. informal a lust or craving for power adj. megalomanical

Deuteronomy 6:2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.

6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

and....

Sadomasochistic sa·do·mas·o·chism    [sey-doh-mas-uh-kiz-uhm, -maz-, sad-oh-] Show IPA –noun 1. interaction, especially sexual activity, in which one person enjoys inflicting physical or mental suffering on another person, who derives pleasure from experiencing pain. 2. gratification, especially sexual, gained through inflicting or receiving pain; sadism and masochism combined. adj. sadomasochistic

A lot of sadomasochism in the bible as you all know. A being that sends itself to be chastised as seen here at the passion when there is no call for it whatsoever, can only be a sadomasochist. But as we are concentrating on OT, here are a few choice verses.

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. Exodus 21:20-21

Proverbs 23:13-14 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 26:3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

Proverbs seems to like the beatings particularly more, the author must have been a right sick deviant. Oh, sorry, I forgot, it was god again wasn't it?

Capriciously adverb of caprice ca·price    [kuh-prees] –noun — n 1. a sudden or unpredictable change of attitude, behaviour, etc; whim

Exodus 32:14 "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people."

Jonah 3:10 "When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it."

Malevolent (məˈlɛvələnt)

— adj 1. wishing or appearing to wish evil to others; malicious

I always laugh when I think about this comment I read on a blog...petty in importance though as it is, I can't fault it.

"God is subtle but he is not malicious." A quote from Einstein "Yeah right! That's why all the good looking girls are only interested in guys that turn out to be players, and the rest of us are left with our tongues hanging out. God designed men an women to inflict the maximum amount of emotional damage on each other. Its our punishment for being so damn arrogant and egotistical"

The point that an attribute of God is omnipotence, yet it allows such evils in the bible, let alone proscribes them, is testament enough to any rational thinking person that the whole god concept is the biggest load of nonsense.

Numbers 31:1-18 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Damning indictment of God I propose.

Ezekiel 23:25, 34 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears. ... Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt ... pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

Leviticus 26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.

But every ones favourite...only in the bible.

Psalm 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Of course it's only poetry

Bully bul·ly1     [bool-ee] noun, plural -lies, verb, -lied, -ly·ing, adjective, interjection –noun 1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.

God, throughout the bible, uses it's might, threats and violence to bully those for which it has a certain disdain.

I cite the ten plagues of Egypt as a prime example of just such bullying.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:23:01 UTC | #842876

weavehole's Avatar Comment 6 by weavehole

Fiction fic·tion    [fik-shuhn] –noun 1. the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, especially in prose form

Perhaps something along these lines http://www.bandoli.no/whyerrors.htm

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:28:28 UTC | #842881

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 7 by Ignorant Amos

Comment 4 by TobySaunders

Had the guy closed the piece with "I'm going to use cannabis" then that would be rather praise-worthy, but heavy alcohol use is wrong and should be seen as equal to heavy heroin use, or heavy oxycodone use, or use of any other comparable CNS depressant. -great summary though, sure

Subjective, you think it's wrong to drink, the law says otherwise, each to their own poison. The fact of the matter is, I was going to the pub to drink alcohol, had I been going to do a line of coke, drop some acid, take a stinger, toke a J, I would've said so. I have, in my past, partaken of all of the above and I may, in the future, if the occasion arises, partake again, none of us are perfect.This has no relevance to the subject at hand other than the point of my idleness in not completing the task I began, people were waiting on me, I had to dash, the place I was dashing to was the pub and it was a fair assumption I would end up intoxicated. I could easily have said I was off to Stressco's to do the shopping, I wasn't, so I didn't. I did finish it later as I've posted above.

I do accept your point that alcohol, and I'll add nicotine, abuse are by far the greater bad, but I see no connection to the point of the article.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:24 UTC | #842884

bendigeidfran's Avatar Comment 8 by bendigeidfran

Lol! Well done IA. It seems to be a shit book. People should read it. Our only evidence for god appears to be that he was a psychoduffer.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:41:22 UTC | #842885

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 9 by strangebrew

Comment 5 by Ignorant Amos

Amos...you appear many things but ignorant...not so much.

Good analysis....tis a great pity that the so-called 'sophisticated theologians' that infest contemporary literature, are rather to arrogant to address the reality and not pander to the biased accomodationist stance they all seem unable, if not outright unwilling, to venture far from.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:42:30 UTC | #842886

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 10 by Ignorant Amos

Comment 9 by strangebrew

It was a rise to a challenge from an apologist on the "Religion Strikes Again" thread. I know we are not supposed to feed the troll's, but Chris Meyer just wouldn't let it go. Like RD had just picked some random derogatory remarks from fresh air. The guy obviously hasn't read his bible himself. Of course it is all just our lack of understanding, we are all ignorant of the bibles true message. It beggars belief, these eedjits seem to be the only ones with their finger on the pulse, they and only they, hold the special knowledge. What I can't get my head round, and no one has explained to my satisfaction, what is the message? What is the message of Lot's daughters raping him? Why did God think this was acceptable behaviour? The Old Testament is chock full of the same nonsense. What ever the metaphor is metaphor for, why not just say so, what's with all the riddles and enigma?

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:58:15 UTC | #842889

mirandaceleste's Avatar Comment 11 by mirandaceleste

This is a great idea. However, because the quoted passage from TGD focuses on the God of the Old Testament, shouldn't supporting examples come only from the Old Testament, and not the Bible in general? (I'm referring here to the reference to "examples from the Bible" at the top of this page, the cited example from Romans (which is a book of the New Testament), and the "see Bible" quotes sprinkled throughout the post.)

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 15:59:06 UTC | #842907

skiles1's Avatar Comment 12 by skiles1

I like this thread!

I will provide more evidence for the unjust god accusation, with these passages:

Exodus 20:

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 23:

2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Isaiah 14:

21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:32:30 UTC | #842924

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 13 by Ignorant Amos

Comment 11 by mirandaceleste

Quite right.....am sure readers will be ready, willing and able to correct that shortfall.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:32:35 UTC | #842925

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 14 by Stevehill

@mirandaceleste

shouldn't supporting examples come only from the Old Testament

It would be pretty cool if we could find examples of every statement in the New Testament as well!

E.g. Filicidal

Romans 1 29-32 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death...

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:35:41 UTC | #842927

lwgreen1's Avatar Comment 15 by lwgreen1

Aren't they one and the same god? I used to think god was playing good cop, bad cop in the NT/OT, but then I discovered the good cop ain't all that good. Hell, I think Hell has caused a lot of bad PR for him.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:43:54 UTC | #842932

JHJEFFERY's Avatar Comment 16 by JHJEFFERY

Filicidal

My Favorite: Judges 11:39

"After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin."

Yeah, I know, God didn't do the deed himself, but accepted the virgin as a sacrifice.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:55:08 UTC | #842937

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 17 by Anonymous

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Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:22:01 UTC | #842947

mirandaceleste's Avatar Comment 18 by mirandaceleste

Okay, here's one to file under misogynistic: Leviticus, King James version, 15:19-30.

It lists God's dictates regarding the "unclean" "sin" of menstruation (for example, every month, after the woman has ceased menstruating, she must take either two turtles or two young pigeons to a priest so that he can sacrifice them to God in the hope that God will forgive her for having menstruated. Seriously!). The passage is a bit long, but I think it's worth quoting in its entirety, both because it's horribly misogynistic and because it's a prime example of the nastiness and obsessiveness of the OT in general, and Leviticus in particular:

19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.

20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean.

21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.

24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.

25 And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean.

26 Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation.

27 And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

28 But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.

29 And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

30 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:27:41 UTC | #842949

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 19 by Anonymous

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Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:35:02 UTC | #842952

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 20 by Anonymous

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Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:42:57 UTC | #842955

God fearing Atheist's Avatar Comment 21 by God fearing Atheist

Comment 20 by mirandaceleste :

Yes Miranda, just ignore it, don't draw attention to it .... oh shit!

Don't say Jehovah either!

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:51:11 UTC | #842956

Drosera's Avatar Comment 22 by Drosera

It is hard to think of a negative character trait that doesn’t apply to the god of the OT (Richard was too kind; he omitted lying and vandalism, for instance). If, as many believers claim, we owe our moral compass to God, then that would at least explain all the murder, torture, rape, stealing, and wanton destruction for which our species has such a penchant.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:51:30 UTC | #842957

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 23 by Anonymous

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Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:58:40 UTC | #842958

Stevehill's Avatar Comment 24 by Stevehill

If, as many believers claim, we owe our moral compass to God, then that would at least explain all the murder, torture, rape, stealing, and wanton destruction for which our species has such a penchant.

Well, it's case of chicken and egg... we did all that stuff anyway, so by the time we decided to invent God, we had no choice but to invent one who thought it was all pretty cool, if not actually commanded by him.

And soldiers have been, metaphorically or actually, wearing Gott mit uns on their belt buckles ever since.

I've toyed with inventing a religion which has a pretty cool god who doesn't advocate any of that stuff. I'm sure I could have it revealed to me on golden dinner plates behind the arras or something. But I've decided there's no money in it as nobody is likely to join.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:59:29 UTC | #842959

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 25 by Anonymous

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Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:05:58 UTC | #842962

Moderator's Avatar Comment 26 by Moderator





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Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:08:42 UTC | #842963

Drosera's Avatar Comment 27 by Drosera

Comment 18 by mirandaceleste :

Okay, here's one to file under misogynistic: Leviticus, King James version, 15:19-30/Leviticus#Chapter_15). It lists God's dictates regarding the "unclean" "sin" of menstruation (for example, every month, after the woman has ceased menstruating, she must take either two turtles or two young pigeons to a priest so that he can sacrifice them to God in the hope that God will forgive her for having menstruated. Seriously!). The passage is a bit long, but I think it's worth quoting in its entirety, both because it's horribly misogynistic and because it's a prime example of the nastiness and obsessiveness of the OT in general, and Leviticus in particular:

29 And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 30 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.

Conversation in ancient Palestine:

“Daddy, why is mummy in such a bad mood today?”

“Oh, it’s just the time of the month when she has to catch a pair of turtles again, or two young pigeons. They are almost impossible to find around here. All the women are after them. That makes mummy angry.”

“But why does she have catch them?”

“Don’t ask so many questions, son. This is something for grown-ups.”

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:14:04 UTC | #842966

mirandaceleste's Avatar Comment 28 by mirandaceleste

Oh come on, there wasn't any reason to remove my previous comment, as it's certainly worth pointing out to the uninitiated that they should ignore and flag the Troll's comments. But whatever.

Anyway, another example of misogyny, from Genesis, King James version, 19 (1-8). tl;dr summary: Angels come to see Lot when he is living in Sodom, the men of Sodom demand that Lot offer up the angels for them to rape, but Lot would prefer that the men rape his two virgin daughters instead, and tells the men to "do ye to them as is good in your eyes":

1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:20:19 UTC | #842972

Muldanian's Avatar Comment 29 by Muldanian

"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Psalm 137:9

"Their children also shall be dashed before their eyes, their homes shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

Isiah 13:16

"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

Hosea 13: 16

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:56:29 UTC | #842988

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 30 by Stafford Gordon

Wow! I'm up for this. It could go on for quite some time; Ihope.

Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:25:24 UTC | #843004