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← Vatican recalls Irish papal envoy after Cloyne report

Vatican recalls Irish papal envoy after Cloyne report - Comments

MilitantNonStampCollector's Avatar Comment 1 by MilitantNonStampCollector

Catholicism in Ireland will be dead in decades, or at least obsolete. More 'strident criticisms' are needed from world leaders.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:27:35 UTC | #853757

kscally's Avatar Comment 2 by kscally

Don't hurry back...

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:41:36 UTC | #853761

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 3 by rod-the-farmer

Could it go so far as to have RC churches ordered closed in Ireland ? That sort of reaction is common enough in countries which feel that commercial companies have acted illegally. One option is to nationalise those companies. The reasons therefore sometimes seem rather modest, in comparison. Imagine a company employing child labour, whose managers were sexually abusing the children, whose management had been hiding it for decades, even in multiple other countries where this company operated. Would the host country allow the company to continue to operate ? This is not a case where some (even a very few) managers were responsible, it is the management who tried to conceal it. That suggests those who were not involved may well have to suffer for the failings of others. The News Of The World example comes to mind. Perhaps unfair, but stuff happens to the innocent.

I think I read there was an original agreement not to name the guilty priests. If the church has failed to live up to their side, and is continuing to hide the evidence, perhaps the government has legal grounds to open up other parts of that initial agreement. I am sure many will be watching this with great interest, world-wide.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:47:22 UTC | #853763

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 4 by Ignorant Amos

Comment 1 by Derek M

Hopefully you are right, say two or three generations should do it. The same for Protestantism in the north, the Orange Order is in it's death throes....a couple of generations should do it in and with all the church going geriatrics stumbling off this mortal coil, the religious grip will be prised and the sooner the better.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:47:31 UTC | #853764

josephor's Avatar Comment 5 by josephor

The Vatican has recalled its special envoy in Ireland because it had no other choice, the Papal Nuncio was going to be expelled. This is a typical damage limiting tactic from the Vatican, just think of the implications where the once mighty Vatican expelled by one of its surf states Ireland. Another consideration are the horrific events that have unfolded in Norway, the Vatican no doubt hoping to slip under the radar unnoticed because the worlds attention and sympathy is focused on Norway.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:59:36 UTC | #853766

sbooder's Avatar Comment 6 by sbooder

"The numbers of members of the clergy who have been in touch in the last few days to say it is about time somebody spoke out about these matters in a situation like you are, has astounded me."

Why dose it take someone in a position of authority for clergy to take notice, this shows a real disregard for the average person on the street who have been condemning this disgusting practice for years now and shows what a nauseating club the establishment is!

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:31:37 UTC | #853772

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 7 by strangebrew

More of the same papal smoke and mirrors diverting attention from the morally bankrupt hierarchy that covered the crime up after the fact...they would seemingly give more for a squeeze of a choir boys bum then they would for any meaningful dialogue or action.

They are performing the least, some would say less then the least, in damage control to shore up the shaken confidence of the brainless legions that drool after the RCC's fairy story. They care less then zilch for the 'obviously sinful victims' that suffered abuse literally at the hands of the messengers of Jeebus, Mary and Joseph! Their hastily cobbled together apologetics about secular society in the 60's is so much laughably pathetic trash. their original bollox about 'teh gheys' that infiltrated their august little black hearted cult is demolished...and the 'sub-human' atheists bite back as well these days...they have no where to run or to blame, except themselves, and just sit blinking in the headlights of the juggernaut of reality that bears down on their collective 'belief' of superiority and their documented abandonment of civilized society, they are exposed to the world as the magisterium of greedy, hate-filled, morally bankrupt , ignorant, intolerant perverts that they have always been.

And they are losing the plot...over and over again. Their reputation is in the gutter and fast gurgling through the grating to the sewer of quaint superstitions

Bust the sexually perverted twisted priests by all means send them to secular hell...but reserve a special place in the dock for the enablers and the cover up cardinals that knew the peccadilloes of their minions and just moved them on to prey(sic) on fresh meat! And charge Benny baby with institutional deliberate ignorance and criminality. Murdoch might have been intentionally unaware of moral turpitude...but the Vatican actually practiced it to a black art skill beyond even a D&D mage of the 33rd level.

Their little tricks over the last 2000 years have finally turned and bitten their ass...they are panicking...serves the retarded dingbats right.

'When first we practice to deceive...etc ....etc!'

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:58:06 UTC | #853777

hungarianelephant's Avatar Comment 8 by hungarianelephant

If the previous government had any cojones, it would have expelled the Papal™ Nuncio in the wake of the Yvonne Murphy report. But it didn't, so it didn't. I haven't been the greatest fan of Enda Kenny, but fair play to him for speaking up. There are still plenty of votes to be lost on issues like this.

Comment 3 by rod-the-farmer :

The News Of The World example comes to mind.

Yes, quite. While not condoning any offence under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, it seems to me that raping children is slightly more serious than listening to voicemails of people too stupid to change their PIN. The anti-Murdoch circus in the UK showed a shocking lack of perspective.

Comment 6 by sbooder :

Why dose it take someone in a position of authority for clergy to take notice, this shows a real disregard for the average person on the street who have been condemning this disgusting practice for years now and shows what a nauseating club the establishment is!

That's unfair. Most of the clergy are genuinely horrified by the way the Vatican™ has behaved, up to and including the Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin. The question to be asked is why so few of them feel unable to do anything practical about it. Once that is understood, it becomes much more obvious why the Taoiseach's intervention is so important.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:03:42 UTC | #853778

Geoff 21's Avatar Comment 9 by Geoff 21

Comment 5 by josephor

The Vatican has recalled its special envoy in Ireland because it had no other choice, the Papal Nuncio was going to be expelled. This is a typical damage limiting tactic from the Vatican, just think of the implications where the once mighty Vatican expelled by one of its surf states Ireland. Another consideration are the horrific events that have unfolded in Norway, the Vatican no doubt hoping to slip under the radar unnoticed because the worlds attention and sympathy is focused on Norway.

Yep. The word 'Jesuitical' comes to mind. At least the Papal Nonce won't be doing any surfing in Ireland for a while!

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:10:52 UTC | #853780

prettygoodformonkeys's Avatar Comment 10 by prettygoodformonkeys

Ironic that this lends extra credence to the story of St Patrick, who drove the snakes out of Ireland. I think the fable should be re-adopted by the 'folk tale' people, and they could start taking the rest back as well; then there'll be no use at all for religion, even as an archive of bullshit.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:32:10 UTC | #853784

quarecuss's Avatar Comment 11 by quarecuss

@Ignorant Amos

The same for Protestantism in the north, the Orange Order is in it's death throes.

Now that Kenny has dumped on the Vatican it's high time that Robinson and all Protestant leaders in the north did the same on the Orange Order. That might help put it out of its misery.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:41:23 UTC | #853787

thebaldgit's Avatar Comment 12 by thebaldgit

It is nice for once to see that an Irish leader is prepared to put his people first ahead of the wishes of its religion. It is not a surprise that the Vatican has had to recall its envoy when there was only one other option which was to stay and have him booted out of the country.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:56:09 UTC | #853793

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 13 by aquilacane

He told the Irish parliament that the report into how allegations of sex abuse by priests in Cork had been covered up showed change was urgently needed.

"The rape and torture of children were downplayed or 'managed' to uphold instead the primacy of the institution, its power, standing and 'reputation'," the taoiseach said last Wednesday.

At the weekend, the prime minster said he had received thousands of messages of support from around the world - many were from the clergy, he said.

It's not change that is urgently needed, it's a complete termination of the Catholic cult.

The rape and torture of children was not downplayed it was supported as part of the cult behaviour as is demonstrated by the relocation of known peds into churches with new flocks of children to pray on. Like some sick rite of passage.

The prime minster received messages of support from clergy who are still clergy despite knowing their boss condones child rape and torture. Clergy who have helped keep the Catholic cult in power despite the overwhelming evidence that it is a criminal child raping organization that has ruined the lives of countless thousands, perhaps millions, of lives. They have only just realized that they need to speak up so they can look like they are on the right side. Bullshit!

If police don't start putting handcuffs on some serious top players, I want to see a good ol' fashion pitchfork and fire party. If the cops won't do it, the people better, or there will be your children to pay.

I would consider any one looking to enter the Catholic church as being mentally sick and in need of medical intervention.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:12:51 UTC | #853798

jel's Avatar Comment 14 by jel

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:27:06 UTC | #853803

skiles1's Avatar Comment 15 by skiles1

"Nor does it exclude some degree of surprise and disappointment at certain excessive reactions."

Those grubby motherfuckers! Are there such things as excessive reactions to child rapes and subsequent coverups? By my count, the church is yet to even accept responsibility. What did the church do after it committed those despicable crimes and was exposed? After the church abuses, connives and falsifies, the church only has the audacity to try to expand.

The same week of the Cloyne report, a half a world away, the Catholic Diocese of Orange offers 50 million US dollars to buy the Crystal Cathedral. Sounds to me like the church is yet to grasp the seriousness of its crimes. How many tens of thousands of children will suffer at you hands, Catholicism, before you start to take this shit seriously? For starters, how about offering the money to Ireland, instead?

I applaud Enda Kenny for admonishing the Holy See, and I think if I were Irish I'd be out in the street protesting the papacy's sickening response. It's probably time Catholicism witnesses some impromptu razing of its cathedrals rather than is allowed to expand its molesting grasp.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:28:22 UTC | #853804

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 16 by Ignorant Amos

Comment 11 by quarecuss

Now that Kenny has dumped on the Vatican it's high time that Robinson and all Protestant leaders in the north did the same on the Orange Order. That might help put it out of its misery.

That will never happen, the south is more secular than the north for starters and the DUP is too dependant on the fundamentalist Protestant vote. However, the Orange Order is being decimated by financial constraints and dwindling numbers so the writing is on the wall. The teeth have already started to fall from the gums of a once very influential snarl of such an establishment as it was in the past.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:47:56 UTC | #853813

sbooder's Avatar Comment 17 by sbooder

That's unfair. Most of the clergy are genuinely horrified by the way the Vatican™ has behaved, up to and including the Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin. The question to be asked is why so few of them feel unable to do anything practical about it. Once that is understood, it becomes much more obvious why the Taoiseach's intervention is so important.

Is it?

It seems to me that the clergy have done little but mumble until this point, they are spineless yes men. Let's see them march on Rome with banners or have a rally to take on the RCC hierarchy.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:50:15 UTC | #853814

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 18 by Tyler Durden

Comment 15 by skiles1 :

The same week of the Cloyne report, a half a world away, the Catholic Diocese of Orange offers 50 million US dollars to buy the Crystal Cathedral. Sounds to me like the church is yet to grasp the seriousness of its crimes. How many tens of thousands of children will suffer at you hands, Catholicism, before you start to take this shit seriously? For starters, how about offering the money to Ireland, instead?

The Catholic church in Ireland actually owe the government (taxpayer) €680 million for compensation paid to abuse victims in industrial schools after the release of the Ryan report:

Orders have 'moral responsibility' over abuse costs

THE GOVERNMENT is “fully satisfied that it is entirely right and proper” that religious congregations pay half the costs of compensation to those abused in residential institutions for children.

Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn yesterday met 14 of 18 religious congregations who managed the reformatories, industrial schools and orphanages and who were investigated by the Ryan commission. “Putting it bluntly, I believe that there is a moral responsibility on your congregations to significantly augment your contributions,” he said

To date, costs incurred by the State as a result of the abuse of children in the institutions are estimated at €1.36 billion. The Government is seeking a contribution of €680 million (50 per cent) towards this from the congregations. They have offered €374.5 million. Mr Quinn suggested in recent months that they make up the shortfall by signing over property to the State.

€1.36 billion in compensation for abuse of children?!?! Good grief, it beggars belief.

I applaud Enda Kenny for admonishing the Holy See, and I think if I were Irish I'd be out in the street protesting the papacy's sickening response. It's probably time Catholicism witnesses some impromptu razing of its cathedrals rather than is allowed to expand its molesting grasp.

I'd much prefer a silent protest of people not turning up on Sundays, or just leaving the RCC. Church attendance in Ireland is on the decline, and has been for years (65% in 1999, down to 43% in 2008 for those who attend mass weekly or more often - Source ESS, EVS, MacGreil & Rhatigan and ISSP) and long may it continue - it's just unfortunate it took the rape and abuse of children for it to have an effect.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:56:38 UTC | #853816

Linda Ward's Avatar Comment 19 by Linda Ward

How does the hierarchy of this terrifying institution continue to pull the wool over the eyes of so many who grovel before the Vatican? It is a fortified castle in the centre of Rome and not a nation. Nations have normal-ish stuff like families, soccer moms, gender equality and household pets. The Vatican is peopled not by those born there but by self appointed, effeminate men.

Ireland (up & down) really should grow some, confiscate the holdings of the RCism and use the funds to establish free education for all.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:04:07 UTC | #853819

skiles1's Avatar Comment 20 by skiles1

@ Tyler Durden:

I'd much prefer a silent protest of people not turning up on Sundays, or just leaving the RCC. Church attendance in Ireland is on the decline, and has been for years (65% in 1999, down to 43% in 2008 for those who attend mass weekly or more often - Source ESS, EVS, MacGreil & Rhatigan and ISSP) and long may it continue - it's just unfortunate it took the rape and abuse of children for it to have an effect.

That is probably the better way to handle it, even if Catholicism deserves much worse. As an Irish American and former Catholic, I can say I wont be attending mass ever again.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:07:00 UTC | #853820

Cestriana's Avatar Comment 21 by Cestriana

If there is a big demise in the power of Catholic Church in Eire following this latest appalling business, and assuming we do see a haemorrhage in the Orange Order in Northern Ireland, I wonder what the religious/political fallout will be for the 6 northern counties, especially in the wake of an independent Scotland. Will the loosening of the strangehold that Catholicism has had on Eire make it a country more appealing to Protestants? According to people I know who hail from Belfast, Irish Catholicism and Papism have always been massive stumbling blocks to integration with the south.

Amos: what are your thoughts on this?

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:08:39 UTC | #853821

Linda Ward's Avatar Comment 22 by Linda Ward

A major hurdle in Ireland is the fact that the RC control all of the schools hence their inculcate a miserably, emotional population too afraid to speak up as they are worried that priests can cast spells and turn them into toads.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:11:10 UTC | #853822

ZenDruid's Avatar Comment 23 by ZenDruid

Aquilacane,

If police don't start putting handcuffs on some serious top players, I want to see a good ol' fashion pitchfork and fire party. If the cops won't do it, the people better, or there will be your children to pay.

The presence of stake and firewood in town squares, with the sign "For the Next Priest Found Guilty of Molesting Children", might deliver the message.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:16:49 UTC | #853823

quarecuss's Avatar Comment 24 by quarecuss

@sbooder

It seems to me that the clergy have done little but mumble until this point,

So right. The clergy may be getting on the bandwagon of criticism of the Vatican but the fundamentals are still very much in place. Martin and his ilk are still trying to save the rotten institution of which he is an arch member. It's time to throw this particular "baby" out with the bathwater, Diarmuid!

@Ignorant Amos

... and yes, it's too much to expect this generation of N.I. Protestant leaders to throw their particular Orange baby out with the stinking bathwater of sectarianism.

It is interesting to watch the rot set in on both sides of the sectarian divide.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:28:06 UTC | #853825

Jonathan Dore's Avatar Comment 25 by Jonathan Dore

Shame they gave him the chance to be recalled. They should have expelled him.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:37:37 UTC | #853829

Marc Country's Avatar Comment 26 by Marc Country

In a blistering attack, Mr Kenny accused the Church of putting its reputation ahead of child rape victims.

Has this "accusation" not been proven fully enough already that we can stop referring to it like that? It is a demostrated fact: the Catholic Church, with the full knowledge of Pope Ratzinger, covered up child rape by his priests. This is not refuted.

Plain English... now, lets have them tried and arrested, already!

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:37:38 UTC | #853830

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 27 by strangebrew

Comment 19 by Linda Ward

How does the hierarchy of this terrifying institution continue to pull the wool over the eyes of so many who grovel before the Vatican?

2000 years of utter balderdash and intensive Practice !

It is wot they do!

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:09:08 UTC | #853839

Tony d's Avatar Comment 28 by Tony d

I happen to know that the Irish papal envoy has been recalled not because of Enda Kenny speech. But to take part in a urgent catholic debate discussing the current world shortage of alter boy's.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:36:33 UTC | #853859

KenChimp's Avatar Comment 29 by KenChimp

The Holy Roman Catholic Church: Providing the Masses with larceny, murder, deceit and most importantly distraction since 380 C.E.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:44:20 UTC | #853863

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 30 by AtheistEgbert

Comment 7 by Strangebrew

Excellent quality rant there, nearly up there with the best of Pat Condell. Well done sir.

Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:50:52 UTC | #853867