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← OLFA Report on Far-Right, Sharia-controlled zones, and Australia tour

OLFA Report on Far-Right, Sharia-controlled zones, and Australia tour - Comments

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 1 by Steve Zara

This seems like a thoroughly admirable campaign organisation. The "one law for all" title is perfect. A report on the far right's activities in this area is timely, and important, and it backs a recent article by Russell Blackford posted here that stressed how we should be wary of our apparent allies.

I'm going to research this campaign more, but in principle I am going to go ahead and donate.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 07:06:50 UTC | #861183

Atheist Mike's Avatar Comment 2 by Atheist Mike

Oppose the far right and stop being afraid to criticize mad muslims because they're mostly foreigners. Simple enough really.

Good initiative.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 07:59:17 UTC | #861192

plasma-engineer's Avatar Comment 3 by plasma-engineer

I absolutely agree with both the previous comments. What a sensible idea. Well worth some further investigation and from what I have seen so far some support. The main question for me is how it fits with the activities of the well established National Secular Society. It would be a shame to fragment the secular community into too many factions. It would make us look (dare I say it) like a christian church which splits every time there is a minor disagreement.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:41:23 UTC | #861215

inquisador's Avatar Comment 4 by inquisador

'One Law for all' is fine.

Not quite so fine is the attempt to demonise all opposition to Islamic jihad except that which Namazie herself expresses or endorses.

Anything tainted by any hint of Christianity or patriotism is branded 'far right' and 'racist' in her poorly-written and badly-argued pamphlet. Her far-left affiliation has rendered her as guilty of bigotry as her targets.

I admire her support for the victims of Islam (or Islamism as she puts it) but not the shit-slinging tactics against other human-rights campaigners like Spencer and Gash.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:03:56 UTC | #861229

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 5 by AtheistEgbert

Comment 4 by inquisador

Anything tainted by any hint of Christianity or patriotism is branded 'far right' and 'racist' in her poorly-written and badly-argued pamphlet. Her far-left affiliation has rendered her as guilty of bigotry as her targets.

Any evidence or even reasoning to back up these claims? You seem guilty of the very accusation of shit-slinging tactics here.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:27:28 UTC | #861238

danconquer's Avatar Comment 6 by danconquer

Comment 4 by inquisador :

'One Law for all' is fine.Not quite so fine is the attempt to demonise all opposition to Islamic jihad except that which Namazie herself expresses or endorses.

No, it is not all opposition except Namazie's own that is being demonised. Just the neo-Nazi, fascist and other totalitarian and violent far-rightists who are trying to hitch an opportunistic ride upon the current wave of borderline-racist sentiment being pumped out by gutter media.

Namazie specifically focuses on groups such as EDL and the BNP. For the avoidance of doubt Inquisador, what is your view of them? Do you regard them as allies? It's no good denouncing 'mud-slinging' unless you can tell us why we shouldn't be slinging mud at the EDL and BNP!

The true fascist nature of the EDL was well and truly laid bare last week when this group, self-proclaimed as having been set up to halt the 'Islamification of Britain', couldn't resist their scattergun hooligan instincts and started forming 'vigilante' mobs to protect 'white' areas, even though even the most raving muslim-basher wouldn't dare to attempt to pin the blame for the rioting and looting on Islam.

We shall, for the timebeing, leave to one side the pressing question of how an organisation whose members have themselves been responsible for widespread criminal disorder and whose leader received a 12-month prison sentence for assaulting a police officer can possibly be relied upon to help enforce peaceable lawfulness.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:52:46 UTC | #861246

inquisador's Avatar Comment 7 by inquisador

Any evidence or even reasoning to back up these claims? You seem guilty of the very accusation of shit-slinging tactics here.

No evidence. Just my response to the text of the report linked to above about the far right.

I found it to be one-sided and written with the aim of destroying the credibility of other critics of Islam on the grounds of racism and bigotry. Not very convincingly. Of course many here will disagree.

I may be wrong but i can't help feeling sceptical when people of the far left use 'far right' so prolifically as a pejorative.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:04:14 UTC | #861249

Yorick's Avatar Comment 8 by Yorick

No, it is not all opposition except Namazie's own that is being demonised. Just the neo-Nazi, fascist and other totalitarian and violent far-rightists who are trying to hitch an opportunistic ride upon the current wave of borderline-racist sentiment being pumped out by gutter media.

That is false.

Robert Spencer (Christian) is in no way far-right (his blog is nearly apolitical), fascist, racist, or advocating violence, etc. He has "consistently denounced the BNP," and he certainly isn't trying to "hitch an opportunistic ride" with a media that has vilified and smeared him since Anders Breivik quoted from his commentaries on the Koran. Yet he's squarely in Namazie's far-left (Central Committee member of the Worker-communist Party of Iran) crosshairs.

Spencer has recently addressed Namazie's misrepresentation of his views:

Likewise false is the claim that "Spencer has also written that there is ‘no distinction’ between American Muslims and Jihadists, and explained that Muslims must prove their innocence or else be considered guilty."

This is based on the quote from me above. Yet not only is that not what the quote means, but I have said just the opposite. See, to take one of many examples, here, where I say, in connection with mosques getting extra police protection, "This is a nation of laws, not vigilantes, and the principle of innocent until proven guilty still holds and must hold." And here, where I said that "everyone is innocent until proven guilty" and "many Muslims are not on board with this supremacist program."

What I am saying in the quote is that the "extremists" are not one sect and the "moderates" another, such that they go to different mosques and have no truck with one another. In fact, they are all mixed up together, as numerous jihad plots in the US show -- the jihadist turns out to have attended a local mosque, which quickly disavows him.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:23:33 UTC | #861255

inquisador's Avatar Comment 9 by inquisador

danconquer,

I agree about the EDL that they have attracted extremists who have behaved badly. Maybe some of the leaders are also guilty of violence. So are many of the anti-fascist activists who turn out to oppose them.

My point is that there are respectable and truthful critics of Islam who are being denounced. Let us think twice before accepting this kind of broad brush dismissal of valid comments and commentators.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:32:21 UTC | #861257

danconquer's Avatar Comment 10 by danconquer

Comment 8 by Yorick :

That is false.Robert Spencer (Christian) is in no way far-right (his blog is nearly apolitical), fascist, racist, or advocating violence, etc. He has "consistently denounced the BNP"...

Has he? And what about the EDL?

I'd never heard of this chap until you mentioned him, so I thought it only fair to do a bit of Googling on him. However, I see why you chose to omit the EDL from your defence of him because, it turns out, Spencer has actually praised them! He says they are "standing up to violent thugs" and "deserve the support of all free people"!

The EDL is a violent, fascist-led group. Either Robert Spencer is unaware of this fact, in which case he is a spectacularly lousy investigative writer. Or else he is deliberately colluding in the desperate attempt to 'detoxify' the EDL rabble brand. Either way, his position renders him wholly deserving of criticism do you not think?

I see also that he is great chums with Pamela Geller, with whom he has co-authored stuff. If Robert Spencer doesn't wish to be mistaken for a madman, perhaps he would be wise not to form working partnerships with demented idiots who subscribe to the ludicrous and quite obviously racially charged 'Obama-Isn't-American' conspiracy.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:58:18 UTC | #861268

aitchkay1964's Avatar Comment 11 by aitchkay1964

The principle of One Law for All is essential for any civilised society. But I was dissapointed to hear Maryam Namazie criticise SIOE (Stop the Islamification of Europe) for having a slogan which is not sufficiently anti-racist ("Racism is the lowest form of stupidity" - which seems a pretty robust disavowal to me).

I support anyone who is opposed to Islamism and sharia, and who is in favour of secularism and equality of rights. Robert Spencer is among such people and dismissing him as 'far right' does nothing to help combat the growing threat of Islamic fundamentalism.

I have read many of Spencer's articles and listened to several of his debates and it is abundantly clear from these that he is no fascist.

From his response to Maryam's article:

"In reality, all we stand for and have ever stood for are the principles of the freedom of speech, the freedom of conscience, and equality of rights for all people."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/maryam-namazie-antisemitic-supporter-of-jihad-against-israel-claims-to-be-anti-jihad-lies-about-spen.html

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:50:49 UTC | #861286

Tony d's Avatar Comment 12 by Tony d

Comment 10 by danconquer

Your hyperlink (The EDL is a violent, fascist-led group.) is clearly not a picture of the EDL but some welsh blokes. What's that all about?

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:54:49 UTC | #861288

danconquer's Avatar Comment 13 by danconquer

Comment 12 by Tony d :

... is clearly not a picture of the EDL but some welsh blokes. What's that all about?

The EDL-WDL-SDL are all one and the same thing, and all actively affiliated with one another. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11916458

However, if what you are after is pictures of EDL thugs unashamedly parading their Nazi sympathies minus the Welsh connotations, it's really not difficult! http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/real/blog/sioa/edlnazis.jpg

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:22:14 UTC | #861303

mjs31's Avatar Comment 14 by mjs31

Sharia controlled zones? Maybe I'll skip London if I ever take my European vacation.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:10:20 UTC | #861325

Tony d's Avatar Comment 15 by Tony d

There may be a tiny far right element in Britain.These idiots are of no consequence.The innate Greatness of Britain and the overwhelming majority of British people makes us immune to Fascism. We are all far to pleased with ourselves for magnificently standing alone against the Nazi hordes during WW2 to ever be inclined to stoop to Fascism now.

Comment 13 by danconquer I note that the same fat bloke appears in both your hyperlink pictures. This may indicate that what i stated about this sort of thing being a tiny minority is true.

British patriotism is a cuddly, uplifting thing. As demonstrated every year at the Proms.

We are the Land of Hope and Glory. We no longer seek to rule the world.If we wanted Jerusalem we would not capture and occupy it, we would just build our own.

I predict that in years to come the rioters of today and those crazy Islamist s will embrace British culture.How can they resist our humor and our music is the best in the world.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:14:59 UTC | #861330

inquisador's Avatar Comment 16 by inquisador

Tony d:

Comment 13 by danconquer I note that the same fat bloke appears in both your hyperlink pictures. This may indicate that what i stated about this sort of thing being a tiny minority is true.

How can you be so naive? Obviously this fat geezer is the result of sinister Welsh Nazi-inspired scientific experiments in human cloning. These blokes are everywhere!

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:47:15 UTC | #861346

Robert Howard's Avatar Comment 17 by Robert Howard

Tony d, I don't know why, but for some reason your previous post reminded me of this.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:50:57 UTC | #861348

jel's Avatar Comment 18 by jel

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It's that kind of thinking that causes, to my mind, all sorts of problems and ends up with very strange coalitions.

I'm a left wing union member, not far left but left. Somehow the idea that the USA, the home of capitalism, is the enemy has taken root and anyone that dares to criticise the USA must therefore be our allies. This puts me in the strange position of being an ally of fundamentalist muslims!

I'm an atheist, I have no time for any religion and I consider that islam, especially fundamentalist islam is something that should be opposed. That somehow makes me an ally of the EDL!

I cannot be the ally of both.

I actually have no time for either the EDL (who, while spouting the mantra that they are just fighting against islam and for "traditional" English values {whatever they might be} are, in reality, using the excuse of islam to have a go at people that aren't white) or islamists who want to take the whole world back 1,500 years.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 15:55:13 UTC | #861368

Dirty Kuffar's Avatar Comment 19 by Dirty Kuffar

I'd dispute Dan Conquer's statement that Enfield was a "white area", and according to this report from a Spiked journalist who actually attended the anti-looting patrol, although largely white (and whats the problem with that anyway ?), there were also some afro-carribeans present -link text

Onto the main subject ; I've attended OLFA demos myself as I agree with their stated principles, but I'm very uneasy with them quite correctly condemning extremism whilst Maryam is herself on the central committee of the Iranian Worker Communist Party ! Furthermore, their demos have never numbered more than 100-150 people, so they have not really got all the "moderate muslims" mobilised.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:08:35 UTC | #861374

GPWC's Avatar Comment 20 by GPWC

The "far right" tag is used because it is part of Grand Politics. People attack the far right and hope a lot of the mud will stick to the not so far right and some will even stick to the centre right. And it does.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:48:08 UTC | #861398

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 21 by AtheistEgbert

Comment 7 by inquisador

No evidence. Just my response to the text of the report linked to above about the far right. I found it to be one-sided and written with the aim of destroying the credibility of other critics of Islam on the grounds of racism and bigotry. Not very convincingly. Of course many here will disagree. I may be wrong but i can't help feeling sceptical when people of the far left use 'far right' so prolifically as a pejorative.

Fair enough, I don't blame anyone for being sceptical. However, I do not see Namazie making anything but common sense points, rightly condemning the EDL and BNP. I despise fascism and nationalism as much as Islamism, and therefore I give my full support to what she is doing.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:50:05 UTC | #861399

inquisador's Avatar Comment 22 by inquisador

comment 21 by Atheist Egbert:

I do not see Namazie making anything but common sense points, rightly condemning the EDL and BNP.

And the SIOA/SIOE. With accusations that are largely false, or at least exaggerated.

And 'nationalism' needs careful defining I think. Love of one's country does not necessarily equate to Nazism, surely.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 21:18:27 UTC | #861448

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 23 by AtheistEgbert

And 'nationalism' needs careful defining I think. Love of one's country does not necessarily equate to Nazism, surely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

"Nationalism is a political ideology that involves a strong identification of a group of individuals with a political entity defined in national terms, i.e. a nation. In the 'modernist' image of the nation, it is nationalism that creates national identity."

That's a good enough definition in my opinion, and reason enough for me to despise it.

And the Nazis were 'National Socialists'. I actually used the word 'fascism' but I would group any authoritarian nationalism as the same thing.

Mon, 15 Aug 2011 22:25:49 UTC | #861469

inquisador's Avatar Comment 24 by inquisador

And the Nazis were 'National Socialists'. I actually used the word 'fascism' but I would group any authoritarian nationalism as the same thing.

I would agree that 'authoritarian nationalism' is despicable. Thanks for the further definition.

To follow your link, I see that Wikipedia lists 14 various types of nationalism. Some of which, such as 'liberal nationalism' are not notably authoritarian.

Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:03:25 UTC | #861545

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 25 by AtheistEgbert

To follow your link, I see that Wikipedia lists 14 various types of nationalism. Some of which, such as 'liberal nationalism' are not notably authoritarian.

It is my opinion, that this is a mistaken belief. By identifying yourself with others, you can't help but submit your own identity to authority. Hence my extreme distaste for nationalism of any flavour.

In fact, I would say that such people are not liberals at all, much like conservatives are not liberals, no matter how much they espouse liberal philosophies. This is becoming more apparent by the extremist fascist tendencies within David Cameron and many other Britains and pseudo-liberals since the UK Riots.

I am opposed to all forms of fascism, including Islamism, and nationalism is a slippery slope that inevitably leads to far right ideologies.

Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:56:17 UTC | #861579

inquisador's Avatar Comment 26 by inquisador

So you think David Cameron is an extreme fascist?

What, 'hug-a-hoodie' David Cameron? Or is that another David Cameron that I don't know about?

I wonder how would you rate Maggie Thatcher then? (sorry if I made you spit on the screen)

Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:20:58 UTC | #861607

ShinobiYaka's Avatar Comment 27 by ShinobiYaka

Comment 22 by inquisador

“And 'nationalism' needs careful defining I think. Love of one's country does not necessarily equate to Nazism, surely.”

No of course not, but that would be better described as “patriotism” although there are some who do not make such distinctions.

Comment 23 by AtheistEgbert

"Nationalism is a political ideology that involves a strong identification of a group of individuals with a political entity defined in national terms, i.e. a nation. In the 'modernist' image of the nation, it is nationalism that creates national identity."

Is rather simplistic and doesn’t actually describe “Nationalism” it seems er... well, not a very well constructed definition to be charitable...

“And the Nazis were 'National Socialists'. I actually used the word 'fascism' but I would group any authoritarian nationalism as the same thing. “

So, lets see, “Plaid Cymru” is “Nationalist” and they are a socialist party, which when you add the two together makes “National Socialists” does this make Plaid Cymru in your view a Nazi party?

I have to be honest though, I'm never sure how its ever possible to combine the two, ideologically I mean, they really are very different, I would say conflicting political ideologies, maybe that’s why they get so angry?

In relation to Thatcher and Cameron, well two observations really, firstly Thatcher quite clearly held the view that “there is no such thing as society” and I notice that Cameron as hinted at above, is no longer quite so keen on “hugging a hoodie ” these days.

Peace.

Tue, 16 Aug 2011 22:57:16 UTC | #861705

keyfeatures's Avatar Comment 28 by keyfeatures

As the campaign is now seemingly headed to Australia what is 'One Law for All' stance on Aboriginal community courts and also native people's demand for respect for places such as Uluru (Ayre's Rock) due to their sacred significance? For example, the aboriginal people oppose climbing up Uluru or photographing it. Indeed, certain specific areas of Uluru feature "no photos" signs (at least they did a few years ago) due their extreme sacred significance to native peoples.

Would 'One Law for All' respect the wishes of Aboriginal people or not because they are religion / superstition based and also not of a 'one law for all' nature.

Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:11:01 UTC | #861850

danconquer's Avatar Comment 29 by danconquer

You raise an interesting point, but my initial feeling is that a prohibition on photographing Ayre's Rock isn't necessarily a breach of the principle of 'One Law For All' is it? As long as the prohibition applies equally to everyone, which presumably it does.

The fact that such a prohibition is wildly irrational is another matter of course, but it's one that is best tackled by the existing secular campaign groups. If some people are prohibited from taking pictures of Ayre's Rock and other people allowed, only then would it become an issue that One Law For All should comment on.

Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:29:08 UTC | #861885

keyfeatures's Avatar Comment 30 by keyfeatures

comment 29 by danconquer

The aboriginal 'rules' are a voluntary code in the same way that adherence to sharia in secular states is. Some people do still climb Uluru and some people still take photos. The aboriginal community courts only deal with aboriginals.

Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:19:22 UTC | #861902