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← Refusing to Kill Daughter, Pakistani Family Defies Tradition, Draws Anger

Refusing to Kill Daughter, Pakistani Family Defies Tradition, Draws Anger - Comments

TheLordHumungus's Avatar Comment 1 by TheLordHumungus

There are no words to describe how awful this is. How nice it would be if those men who commited the rape were dragged out of their houses and murdered for their horrific crime. What a detestable society!

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:21:42 UTC | #876023

Quine's Avatar Comment 2 by Quine

Well, there you go. You let girls go to school, and next thing you know, they refuse to be killed after being gang raped. What is this world coming to ...

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:24:01 UTC | #876024

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 3 by AtheistEgbert

How nice it would be if those men who commited the rape were dragged out of their houses and murdered for their horrific crime.

Eh no, that's actually as bad as a bad society can be.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:27:07 UTC | #876027

MarkOnTheRiver's Avatar Comment 4 by MarkOnTheRiver

Obviously in Pakistan, and other islamic countries, they use a definition of the word honour of which the rest of the civilised world is currently unaware.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:31:42 UTC | #876031

Perfect Tommy's Avatar Comment 5 by Perfect Tommy

Totally disgusting that this happens in modern times. Fundamental religion and sexual repression, they always seem to go hand in hand.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:46:33 UTC | #876035

William33's Avatar Comment 6 by William33

How can victims be punished or murdered for being victims. How can few people stand up and say, "Hmm... you know what, I don't think murdering rape victims is the right method of justice."

The word barbaric springs to mind. These people honestly live in a savage and barbaric culture. I understand my own culture is not perfect but at least we are capable as a society to understand that rape victims need support, not threats and violence for being forced against their will to engage in activities which will haunt them for the rest of their life!

It is sub-human, I can not look at these people are see fellow human beings. I see animals who are thristy for blood. Heck, my own dog does not behave in that manner.

This woman and her family are an exceptional people amougst these savages. They deserve safe passage to a friendly country where their lives can continue and support can be offered. Their security and well being should be a priority.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:46:51 UTC | #876036

Tvergastein's Avatar Comment 7 by Tvergastein

Comment 4 by MarkOnTheRiver :

Obviously in Pakistan, and other islamic countries, they use a definition of the word honour of which the rest of the civilised world is currently unaware.

I'm really annoyed by the term honour killing. I find it hard to imagine a more cowardly and dishonourable deed. We really need to take the word honour back!

Its even more annoying than the neo nazies misuse of Norse mythology and symbols

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:55:19 UTC | #876039

Peter Grant's Avatar Comment 8 by Peter Grant

Comment 3 by AtheistEgbert

How nice it would be if those men who commited the rape were dragged out of their houses and murdered for their horrific crime.

Eh no, that's actually as bad as a bad society can be.

If the courts refuse to give her justice then her society should. It would be an honourable killing.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:07:28 UTC | #876043

Problem Solved's Avatar Comment 9 by Problem Solved

@comment 3 by egbert

I think the point you're trying to make is valid, but that's a bit hyperbolic, isn't it? You don't think a society could be worse? I can think of a way: blame and murder the victim and let the rapists think their behavior is acceptable (the currently existing paradigm!!).

Giving any government a warrant for capital punishment may very well be a bad idea, even for a gang of kidnapping rapists (who would certainly be among the very least worthy of continued public existence). But, sadly, it seems that would be a minor cultural improvement.

Although, how inspiring that a young woman and her family are openly and bravely evolving a culture that only seemed capable of self-destruction!

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:11:17 UTC | #876045

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 10 by Richard Dawkins

Vile barbarians. Pakistan wouldn't exist as a separate country from India, had it not been for religion – poisoning everything as usual. I wonder if there is anything people outside that disgusting country can do to help – not just about this particular case but about the very idea of 'honour killings' of women: a custom that has even spread, along with female genital mutilation, to Britain. Does writing to embassies help in any way? I never know.

Richard

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:13:45 UTC | #876046

ukvillafan's Avatar Comment 11 by ukvillafan

Comment 8 by Peter Grant :

Comment 3 by AtheistEgbert> > > > How nice it would be if those men who commited the rape were dragged out of their houses and murdered for their horrific crime.> > > > Eh no, that's actually as bad as a bad society can be.> If the courts refuse to give her justice then her society should. It would be an honourable killing.

I'm with AtheistEgbert here. What is it with you people who think we can solve problems by killing. We do not have the death penalty in the UK, nor should we. The US has it and the murder rate is significantly higher still, so it hardly acts as a deterrent and it never has. Nor can you guarantee that all convictions are safe anyway. In the UK had we still had the death penalty the Birmingham 6 and the Guildford 4 would be permanent stains on our justice system even more so than they are now.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:33:44 UTC | #876050

Carole's Avatar Comment 12 by Carole

Surely there is something we can do to help this family; their situation still sounds dangerous and uncertain. I wonder if there is a way of providing some financial support.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:41:46 UTC | #876054

Peter Grant's Avatar Comment 13 by Peter Grant

Comment 11 by ukvillafan

I'm with AtheistEgbert here. What is it with you people who think we can solve problems by killing. We do not have the death penalty in the UK, nor should we.

Who said anything about the death penalty? The UK legal system works. This is mob psychology we're dealing with here, I'd rather the violence be directed at the rapists than at the girls being raped.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:45:20 UTC | #876056

some asshole's Avatar Comment 14 by some asshole

Well, is Christi(ns)anity any better? The bible says that adulterers and homosexuals should be murdered, children who act up should be murdered (by stoning I believe; I don't feel like making myself dirty by looking it up right now). Christians don't currently carry out those acts most of the time, but it's in the sacred texts.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:45:45 UTC | #876057

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 15 by Neodarwinian

Remember that rather long and heated discussion we had the other day about some muslims somewhere declaring their opposition to terrorism?

Lip service.

Now this is how the true terror visited on people by religion will be overturned. One person at a time standing up for their human rights.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:52:07 UTC | #876060

tinyhands's Avatar Comment 16 by tinyhands

Pakistan (as well as Afghanistan and most other -stans) is one contradiction after another. They insist on having the rest of the world recognize their sovereignty and right to self-determination, yet their government has no authority over its citizenry (because the citizens only recognize tribal and religious custom). Palestine, should it be given statehood, is in the queue right behind them. While not as religiously intolerant (with the minor exception of Jews, whom they hate above all others) they have a leader who is not able to exert control and enforce some semblance of law and order. These are not nations, but loose confederations of radicals and should not be given the same rights as civilized peoples.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:54:28 UTC | #876061

neil pharr's Avatar Comment 17 by neil pharr

The problems with this girl's life are partly a result of the failure of religion to teach and uphold cardinal human values. In modern yoga it is explained why women and men should have social equality. Also, it is explained why we should try to live in such a way as to cause the least amount of suffering to other living beings.

Science is inherently moral, because the great majority of scientists are good and decent human beings.

Being human requires a healthy mind. Religion is causing the mind to be diseased and thus we see crazy and immoral behavior from so-called pious people of all the main religions.

The Jains are kind of cute in the way they dont wont to kill anything, but their larger culture makes them part of the problem of female feticide and female newborn killings in India. Aint this a great planet with all these monkeys running around pretending to be humans.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:58:16 UTC | #876062

neil pharr's Avatar Comment 18 by neil pharr

...

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:00:08 UTC | #876063

Peter Grant's Avatar Comment 19 by Peter Grant

If it was my daughter I would not rest until the rapists were dead. No civilised courtroom verdict would satisfy my thirst for vengeance, I would want to kill them with my own bare hands.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:02:13 UTC | #876065

Atheist Mike's Avatar Comment 20 by Atheist Mike

With an arsenal of nuclear weapons it's a miracle that this country didn't cause armageddon to happen yet. That must be why we're constantly pumping money over there and why we're scrutinizing every one of their barbaric moves.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:03:05 UTC | #876067

Quine's Avatar Comment 21 by Quine

Richard: Does writing to embassies help in any way? I never know.

I suggest you write directly to Pakistan's ambassador in London, and simply ask if the story is true. Use wording that gives the suggestion that you going to write about it. That should be enough.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:07:32 UTC | #876069

Sigbert's Avatar Comment 22 by Sigbert

Why this story comes up again these days I do not know, but half of it seems to have gotten lost on the way. This old newspaper report contains a bit more of the girl's ordeal.

What ever we may think about Pakistan, there is still a number of people there that try to stop the talibanization of their country.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:22:00 UTC | #876071

UGAtheist's Avatar Comment 23 by UGAtheist

With an arsenal of nuclear weapons it's a miracle that this country didn't cause armageddon to happen yet. That must be why we're constantly pumping money over there and why we're scrutinizing every one of their barbaric moves.

I think they deserve a lot more scrutiny than they get, but that's where the nuclear part comes in.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:22:16 UTC | #876072

MilitantNonStampCollector's Avatar Comment 24 by MilitantNonStampCollector

Pakistan is a horrible cesspool of religious poison. The tribal elders will stir that cesspool into a thick soup of ignorance, bigotry and stupidity - and force-feed it to everyone they can for as long as they can. It's hard to think positively about such a failed state.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:22:18 UTC | #876073

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 25 by susanlatimer

With the nightmare this girl endured, at least her family is supporting her.

It's almost unbearable to think of all the other victims of rape who are then murdered by their own families. Sometimes, I really hate humans.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:34:14 UTC | #876076

Bipedal Primate's Avatar Comment 26 by Bipedal Primate

I recently learned the word for sacred jealousy: Ghira. Yup. Sacred. It's not just war, hatred and lying that's sacred in the religion of peace, but also jealousy. How enriching for this decadent civilization of ours. I'm feeling overwhelmed with respect for the beautiful and exotic religion of conquest, mutilation and decapitation, don't you? Can't you see how much we have to learn here in order to become better and more understanding human beings?

But I guess this is not the average atheists kind of Mohammedanism, is it? It's just my phobia that makes me sarcastic and unpleasant I guess. I probably need to do something about that. I'm so sorry you had to read these racist remarks of mine.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:42:38 UTC | #876080

phil rimmer's Avatar Comment 27 by phil rimmer

It would be nice if some some appropriate external charity could direct financial support drawn from those of us concerned to this girl and her admirable family. Any thoughts?

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:04:31 UTC | #876084

Peter Grant's Avatar Comment 28 by Peter Grant

Comment 22 by Sigbert

Why this story comes up again these days I do not know, but half of it seems to have gotten lost on the way. This old newspaper report contains a bit more of the girl's ordeal.

So in addition to gang raping a 13 year old girl these men murdered her brother as well, and the police are working with them because her family refuses to kill her:

Ahsan Thebo

Sha’aban Sheikh

Roshan Thebo

Kaleemullah Thebo

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:08:39 UTC | #876086

green and dying's Avatar Comment 29 by green and dying

Another problem is that material evidence is usually not collected in rape cases in Pakistan since the police rarely believe rape victims and therefore don't order rape kits in a timely manner.

I don't believe that they believe that rape doesn't happen so basically they condone it or don't find it important.

Comment 3 by AtheistEgbert :

Eh no, that's actually as bad as a bad society can be.

Probably, but it would be the police's fault.

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:18:14 UTC | #876090

kaiserkriss's Avatar Comment 30 by kaiserkriss

As I commented when this case first broke- truly disgusting! The family of this girl is showing a lot of intestinal fortitude for standing by her and not being swayed by the attacks of cowardly Islamic fascists. Maybe our contributor HaziatNaKuda could in some way help this family. That would be turn of events- shunned by Islam yet supported by non-believers.jcw

Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:19:59 UTC | #876092