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← Archbishop calls for NHS bill to cover spiritual health

Archbishop calls for NHS bill to cover spiritual health - Comments

Pete.K's Avatar Comment 1 by Pete.K

The NHS is already in crisis, how does this nincompoop expect woo-woo to be funded, anyway we already have enough state sponsored bullshit!

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:32:02 UTC | #886841

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 2 by Alan4discussion

The archbishop then told how he freed the spirit of a young girl, left petrified by seeing a goat sacrificed.

It seems there is one silly old goat, whose seat in the House of Lords should be promptly sacrificed!

"The element of the spiritual well-being of people is not on the face of the bill but I am absolutely convinced that, as it stands, my needs would be taken care of because it talks about 'the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of illness'."

Indeed! I'm sure the NHS has some suitable institutions, where his condition could be treated!

(It adds a new twist to the term, "Peer Review")

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:32:21 UTC | #886842

NormanDunbar's Avatar Comment 3 by NormanDunbar

I quite like the Archbishop of York, most of the time, he usually has a sensible head on his shoulders. Shame about the fancy dress, but there you go.

However, I think this is one time where he's got lost in the woo. I might be wrong, but he's calling for the NHS to fund exorcism, at least, that's what I read from his prayer, candle, goat explanation.

Maybe it's just me?

Cheers, Norm.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:33:46 UTC | #886843

Chica1's Avatar Comment 4 by Chica1

Whoops, silly old BBC forgot to put in the paragraph where they explained his medical qualifications and the scientific studies which were carried out to justify his argument.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:35:39 UTC | #886845

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 5 by aquilacane

Spiritual health? Does he mean mental health? I'm sure that will be addressed. Deppresion, anxiety, delusional fits of absurd self importance and other debilitating conditions should be a feature, I agree.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:37:04 UTC | #886847

Lapithes's Avatar Comment 6 by Lapithes

As soon as Dr Sentamu's paper on locked-up stuff in people's spirits appears in Nature I'm sure the British people'd gladly pay for that sort of thing. How expensive was that candle anyway?

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:40:19 UTC | #886849

Slugsie's Avatar Comment 7 by Slugsie

It seems to me that if you accept that there is such a thing as Spiritual Health, then there are already a myriad of organisations that will pander to your every whim. Indeed most towns will have several buildings where different practitioners of different approaches to the 'Spiritual' can be found (I have at least 4 within half a mile of me, two of which are within 200yards of each other).

Maybe it's about time more of these so called 'churches' are turned over to community use so that people can receive actually healing and health advice without having to travel large distances to their nearest NHS establishment.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:44:00 UTC | #886851

Random Jerk's Avatar Comment 8 by Random Jerk

When will the Archbishop realise that the religion he subscibes to is the biggest spiritual disease. It doesn't need NHS intervention, it can be cured using logic, reason and evidence.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:47:41 UTC | #886856

Time Adored's Avatar Comment 9 by Time Adored

I just registered, and read the rules about posting...

However; Bwaaahaaahaaahaaaaaahhaaaaaa

Seriously for a moment; unelected chaps like this have got to go,

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:48:02 UTC | #886857

MarkOnTheRiver's Avatar Comment 10 by MarkOnTheRiver

What exactly is this woo merchant doing with a seat in the UK upper legislative chamber, and making christian-faith driven decisions, that could affect the operation of the NHS?

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:50:22 UTC | #886859

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 11 by SaganTheCat

anyone else fancy some of my NI payments?

no sensible reason needed, although in fairness the NHS is spending on homeopathy so why not let the voodoo wizards have a cut too?

couldn't he try and make this claim on the quiet like all the other benefit theives?

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:56:54 UTC | #886862

Melissa's Avatar Comment 12 by Melissa

MarkOnTheRiver, that's what I thought.Isn't it a sad reminder of how religious elites have an easy access to the law-making process without having deserved such privilege? It gives me the creeps.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:04:39 UTC | #886865

Tyrosine's Avatar Comment 13 by Tyrosine

This is absolutely disgraceful! They just can't keep well alone can they? The Church's meddling paws trying to spread further, across a strained NHS that's already on the verge of collapse.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:06:04 UTC | #886866

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 14 by SaganTheCat

Shortly after, he received a phone call saying the girl was no longer terrified and was talking again.

whoa easy on the evidence overload, i can only read so fast

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:06:19 UTC | #886867

Tryphon Tournesol's Avatar Comment 15 by Tryphon Tournesol

If only he gave some definitions, of what spirituality is for example...then we can have some peer review or scrutiny of those ideas. On the other hand, no contest here, any 7 year old asking obvious questions would be insulted by being called such a peer.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:06:27 UTC | #886868

Time Adored's Avatar Comment 16 by Time Adored

I'd forgotten that out taxes also go toward the magic of homeopathy currently. Perhaps in light of that you are correct Daniel: how can NICE put one magic above another?

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:06:52 UTC | #886869

Cartomancer's Avatar Comment 17 by Cartomancer

Great! Back to thirteenth-century medicine it is! Perhaps I can get a job in the NHS as a consultant, alerting them to important cutting-edge texts like the following:

The book of Master Alfred of Shareshill to Great Master Alexander Nequam on the motion of the heart. (c. 1200-1215)

Prologue,

The soul only admits of the speculation of inquisitive physicians because it is united with the body. Since it has become corporeal it offers certain indications to our senses, putting forward the notion that its care be investigated. Certain people treat the two things with the same amount of time because they see such perfection in bodies. According to the consensus of some writers, the body is said to be adapted to the rational power of the mind in act. From this, therefore, such an essence is extended to the body. And thus the body is the way it is not from its own properties but from a property of the soul held qualitatively toward it, and this definition and pronouncement is accepted by the physicians. The soul itself is thought to be an incorporeal, intellective, substance and the illumination which is from the first ultimate perceptive relation, as Aristotle says in his Metaphysics* – a definition which the Areopagite does not dissent from in his book on the Celestial Hierarchy. It is thus truly related that the soul is the perfection of the physical, organic body....

Although, being fair to our illustrious predecessors, they had an answer for the man in the colourful hat too:

The Prose Salernitan Questions (c.1160-1220)

Q3. It is asked why, since the soul is more dignified than the body, do the physicians devote more of their time to the body than to the soul? Physicians discuss the body more than the soul because they are more aware of the dispositions of the body, its nutriment and regimen. This is because all the senses can perceive the body. On the soul however, very little if anything can be learned by philosophers and theorists, since its creation and infusion occur through divine potency and human reason cannot have any grasp on this. It can only be grasped through the merits of faith. Thus we look to the body before the soul because the body comes under the purview of our cognition before the soul does.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:08:27 UTC | #886871

hitchens_jnr's Avatar Comment 18 by hitchens_jnr

WTF? Literally, what's he talking about? What is "spiritual health"? Is any old generalised woo good enough, or does it have to be Christian-specific? Are we talking about tax dollars used to subsidise exorcisms? Hospital Christian Unions? Hopi Ear Candles?

Maybe it would be better if we let the NHS do what it's meant to do and provide actual medicine, and maybe it's foolish and irresponsible to suggest that it should divert its precious resources into funding "Shine Jesus Shine" circle-wank sessions.

Someone stick a fork in Sentamu's eye. Then we'll see what "psycho-somatic, spiritual" techniques he deploys to heal himself.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:15:46 UTC | #886873

Tyrosine's Avatar Comment 19 by Tyrosine

@Cartomancer

Don't forget the leeches, and perhaps some more of the latest advances in bloodletting. Can't leave out those.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:16:59 UTC | #886874

Sample's Avatar Comment 20 by Sample

"Illness can be physical or mental but it can also be spiritual."

What year do med students learn this? Same semester as homeopathy?

Well, it's no surprise to see clergy broadening their "expertise" considering their regular customers are dwindling. What is surprising though, is the fact that faith healing will be covered under the pending US healthcare reform implementation. Now that, makes me ill.

Mike

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:18:31 UTC | #886876

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 21 by Alan4discussion

Comment 19 by Tyrosine - Don't forget the leeches!

Well yes! They are paid for participating in the House of Lords.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:21:34 UTC | #886877

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 22 by strangebrew

The message...the lay-about ill must simply pray harder!

Witches' coven

Sentamu is the Anglican 'Father Merrin'..may the power of Christ I compel you..opps! wrong liturgy...or is it?

I make a prediction based on rationality....Lying 'effing dickwad is lying! Made up testimony...typical xian...load of cobblers. What really irritates is the fact that the hard of thinking buy this stinking crud by the barrel load! What is really disturbing he is peddling this effluent in the highest chamber in the land! And some amazingly obscure dufus boasting she is a psychiatrist tables this motion which encourages such hysterical nonsense?...

'Heal thy self psychiatrist '

Sacrificed goats indeed ...what an imagination... what a cretin! Where is the evidence?....I am sure one of Murdoch's stable of gutter bullshit rags would pay handsomely for the exclusive...if indeed it ever happened in Blighty? and not in the A of Y's twisted little mind!

You see if that story was in any way factual you can bet ya back teeth that the church would have fallen over themselves collecting the 'evidence' like sworn statements from the GP, psychiatrist and psychologist for a start...patient name is not required. And a GP walks into a house where stories of goat sacrifice and coven's does nothing to alert the social services...crap doctor then.

Actually crap story!

(methinks the A of Y has been reading to many Dennis Wheatley novels and made the usual xian mistake of thinking it was factual literature...to be fair they make the same mistake about the 'wholly babble')

Mind ya back 'catweazle' summut ignorant your way saunters!

It is typical opportunity for special pleading and to take the hospital chaplain off the churches pay roll and dump it on the tax payer!

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:22:14 UTC | #886878

SaganTheCat's Avatar Comment 23 by SaganTheCat

if the NHS takes responsibility for our "spiritual health" does that mean we can disestablsh the church?

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:30:50 UTC | #886880

MarkOnTheRiver's Avatar Comment 24 by MarkOnTheRiver

Comment 12 by Melissa :

Isn't it a sad reminder of how religious elites have an easy access to the law-making process without having deserved such privilege? It gives me the creeps.

It is sad indeed, and your creeps are well founded. For me, this sense of entitlement to a seat close to the ears of governmrnt, is always the base for arguments against UK christianity. Whenever they switch into presecution mode, usually at the slightest provocation, I try to turn any argument against this overarching sense of entitlement, that they all seem so oblivious of carrying.

These woo filled witterings by the arch bish of York, only reinforce the aruments for them to be turfed out of parliament, and back to their pulpits where they belong.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:33:05 UTC | #886881

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 25 by Tyler Durden

He was told the family had been to a witches' coven where a goat had been sacrificed. The young girl was petrified she would be next.

Visits from a GP, psychiatrist and psychologist did little to help, he said, but then he said a prayer, anointed the girl and lit a candle on his visit. Shortly after, he received a phone call saying the girl was no longer terrified and was talking again.

Well, bless my cotton socks, the Archbish of York would seem to have removed the need for GPs, psychiatrists, and psychologists in the world today - just say a prayer, light a candle, and voila, all is well with the mind. Time to rewrite the books, power-down the fMRI. and put a halt to all that pesky research.

I'd be curious to read his opinion on the parents taking their daughter to a "witches' coven". Do they (still) slaughter goats in Souff Landen?

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:37:19 UTC | #886886

Rosbif's Avatar Comment 26 by Rosbif

Here, here the Bish of York. NHS funding to cure all those with mental (spiritual) illness and cure them from believing in witches, ghosts and other invisible friends and foe .... That is what he's suggesting, no?

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:40:05 UTC | #886888

Anonymous's Avatar Comment 27 by Anonymous

Comment Removed by Moderator

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:41:06 UTC | #886889

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 28 by Tyler Durden

During a debate on an amendment Archbishop of York said: "Illness can be physical or mental but it can also be spiritual."

Any chance we can send him to see a psychiatrist?

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:53:03 UTC | #886892

achromat666's Avatar Comment 29 by achromat666

shakes head, reads again and shakes head more

Umm.... what?

I only have 2 questions regarding this complete leave of any mental competence...

  1. Why would any medical institution have to make any allowance for this unproven, unfounded practice? Aren't hospitals suppose to only use practices that are proven to be to the benefit of the patient?

  2. If the church is so convinced this is an immediate threat, why don't they fund it themselves? We sure as hell know the RCC has money to burn. Why would something as inane as this have to be included on a bill?

I can't put into words how perplexingly ignorant this is.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:56:05 UTC | #886893

whenpigsfly's Avatar Comment 30 by whenpigsfly

This again raises the issue of what these people are doing in the house of lords??? Bring on a fully elected 2nd chamber with no seats guaranteed for woo-merchants.

Thu, 03 Nov 2011 15:04:08 UTC | #886898