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← Religious groups cry foul over Ontario anti-bullying bill

Religious groups cry foul over Ontario anti-bullying bill - Comments

goddogit's Avatar Comment 1 by goddogit

Bullying - it's what seperates the major religions from the minor ones. Your major faith is founded upon a set of lies and fed by judicious bullying.

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:23:56 UTC | #896892

I Deny's Avatar Comment 2 by I Deny

I was gonna say; the only bully I had growing up was the pederast priest walking the halls in our faith school.

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:27:40 UTC | #896894

Scoundrel's Avatar Comment 3 by Scoundrel

I would prefer a faith founded on love...Less like the nutty churches and more like the more milder ones which the news seems to ignore...perhaps they should speak up and be counted for...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:30:42 UTC | #896896

zombiewoof's Avatar Comment 4 by zombiewoof

"to teach that there are six genders and that you are not attached to the gender of your anatomy"

I know little of biology but who is teaching this? I thought there were two genders plus the transgendered folk.

It's good to see politicians telling the faithful to bog off for a change. Unless attending the "gay clubs" is compulsory, I don't think they have an argument.

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:48:51 UTC | #896905

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 5 by strangebrew

OP

"What nobody here in good conscience can support is a law that calls on people of faith to abandon the beliefs that we consider sacred, all in the name of political correctness."

So bullying teh ghey is a belief that the people of faith cling to....

Therefore society must be kept ignorant and whispering and giggling behind their hands like naive school kiddies instead of being honestly and openly introduced to those that have a different personality based on their gender assignment.

Ignorance and bigotry...the holy grail of religion.

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:50:04 UTC | #896906

adamsan.hu's Avatar Comment 6 by adamsan.hu

The worst thing described in this article is that these people think it's a value to hate/bully/have an irrational fear towards people with different gender preferences.

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:57:33 UTC | #896909

Rich Wiltshir's Avatar Comment 7 by Rich Wiltshir

What's the news here? Religoon bigots lie, misrepresent, manipulate and accuse others of the corrupt methods they use to propogate and defend their own vulgar little institutions.

...that are contrary to the values that they hold,...

How does this fit in with the religoon demands that science teachers spout creationist gibberish?

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:03:46 UTC | #896912

AnthropicConstance's Avatar Comment 8 by AnthropicConstance

I'm proud that the Ontario Liberals can define anti-bullying to include gay clubs. I hope it can withstand criticism from the Conservatives of Steven Harper's party who Progressively seem more like a clone of America's religious right.

Religious groups can wake up to the idea that gays have rights to walk in the sun like anyone else, and that families stick together better when (inevitable) homosexuality is acknowledged and celebrated instead of squashed, denied, and even disowned.

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:20:42 UTC | #896915

Greyman's Avatar Comment 9 by Greyman

Comment 6 by adamsan.hu :

The worst thing described in this article is that these people think it's a value to hate/bully/have an irrational fear towards people with different gender preferences.

And... is it a “value” that's actually taught anywhere, or is the congregation just expected to pick up by osmosis or something?

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:30:36 UTC | #896918

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 10 by Philoctetes

One fact you are all ignoring is this awful attempt to bully the bully boys (and girls). Bullies have feelings too. Bullies have rights. Hug a bully for god

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:33:24 UTC | #896919

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 11 by Neodarwinian

Always onto the gays! Convenient scapegoats? Or, convenient dodge?

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 23:36:02 UTC | #896921

The Truth, the light's Avatar Comment 12 by The Truth, the light

"And what does this have to do with bullying? Nothing."

Well, it actually has a lot to do with bullying. When you indoctrinate someone with the belief that homosexuality is a sin and a lifestyle choice, you are fostering a climate where it is OK to bully gays.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 00:21:46 UTC | #896934

h2ocean's Avatar Comment 13 by h2ocean

"Other religious activists say there will be a mass exodus of kids from public and separate schools if the anti-bullying bill with its sexual accommodation provisions is not amended."

Fine, hang back while modern society marches on.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 00:44:01 UTC | #896943

78rpm's Avatar Comment 14 by 78rpm

Bullying is always bad. I was bullied verbally and physically when I was a boy and an adolescent, not for being gay, which I happen not to be, but for being a few percent fatter and weaker and nerdier than certain other boys who were bullies and looking for a victim. If anyone wants to disagree with what I am about to say, fine, but let's keep it objective, as my anti-shit protective gear hasn't come back from the dry-cleaners. I am against the very concept of gay clubs in schools. It labels children in a way analagous to labelling them as belonging to a religion. Please, I would like to tell a story related to me a few years ago by a woman with 4 children and 6 grandchildren--at the time she was 67 years old. This is what she told me, as closely as I can remember her words: "I was in boarding school when I was 13. There was a girl there who was 18. I thought she was perfect. I thought of her night and day, totally in awe of how wonderful she was. Probably you could say I loved her. If it had been nowadays, I would have been labelled a lesbian, put into a cohort with other lesbians, and that would have been my life thereafter. As it was, though, a little while later I found that I liked kissing boys, and I never looked back."

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:03:44 UTC | #896946

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 15 by Border Collie

Muslim family values ... "honour" killings, wife beating/stoning/etc., daughter rape, female genital mutilation, etc., ad nauseum ...

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:05:58 UTC | #896949

Paul the Pretentious's Avatar Comment 16 by Paul the Pretentious

Comment 10 by ///////////////////////////////////////// :

One fact you are all ignoring is this awful attempt to bully the bully boys (and girls). Bullies have feelings too. Bullies have rights. Hug a bully for god

I have no sympathy for bullies. I don't care how bad they get it at home, there isn't any excuse for anyone to take their troubles out on other people. When I was growing up, I got the whole "fighting is wrong" talk.

I really, really wish I'd gotten the "Demolish them" talk. You want to stop bullying? Stop with the silly pacifism, teach kids to fight back. Most bullies do have wrecked home lives. Most bullies are wimps. And they take their troubles out on innocent peers who they know won't be likely to fight back--because most of us are actually decent and despise violence.

Damn that. Occasionally, the best way to prevent somebody hurting you is to demonstrate you are willing to hurt them. Does it sound stupid and brutish?

It is. So are bullies. A combination of teaching kids to fight back--and yes I mean violently--against someone threatening them physically, and intervening into what the bullies lives are like at home, would put an end to this.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:25:28 UTC | #896955

mmurray's Avatar Comment 17 by mmurray

Comment 16 by Paul the Pretentious :

It is. So are bullies. A combination of teaching kids to fight back--and yes I mean violently--against someone threatening them physically, and intervening into what the bullies lives are like at home, would put an end to this.

Have you read Sam Harris' blog on violence? He has some discussion of the dangers of fighting back versus walking or running away.

Michael

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:35:51 UTC | #896960

Cartomancer's Avatar Comment 18 by Cartomancer

I am against the very concept of gay clubs in schools. It labels children in a way analagous to labelling them as belonging to a religion.

No.

Religion is chosen, sexual orientation is not. The problem with religious labelling is that it seeks to force children into choosing a particular religion. People do not choose their sexual orientation any more than they choose their hair colour or their chirality or their height.

Gay-friendly organisations can be vital in helping to create a safe, tolerant space for vulnerable gay children and teenagers in schools. Especially where the wider culture might be less than tolerant or safe.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:02:30 UTC | #896968

alaskansee's Avatar Comment 19 by alaskansee

@Comment 14 by 78rpm

I don't think there is any need for anyone to sling shit at your illogical and offensive post, is there?

I am against the very concept of gay clubs in schools. It labels children in a way analagous to labelling them as belonging to a religion.

Are you are comparing someones gender orientation to a choice in fantasy friends. Someone who has to grow up in a society where LGBTG are NOT equal and who cannot simply fit into standard society. You not only want to compare them to the deluded but not allow them to have a club, the one place where they can openly discuss their true identity and feelings. Perhaps like you they have already been bullied, ostracism by their parents and their parents zombie death cult, it's leaders and it's big book. Where is the equivalency?

[Granny 78rpm] "Probably you could say I loved her. If it had been nowadays, I would have been labelled a lesbian, put into a cohort with other lesbians, and that would have been my life thereafter."

Or in reality if "they" had kissed, so what? Is your argument similar to the "once you go black..." line of thought. Really that was terrible. You do understand that it's the muslims that have apostasy don't you, not the gays? For someone who opened up a post with "I understand" I'm not sure you understood anything you said. Do you imagine they're putting a fence around the club and making the gays wear little pink triangles?

Not to say that there aren't many inherent problems with starting a specific gay club but it appears you're one of them. I certainly don't have any problems but it won't be easy; first move ban childhood indoctrination, second ban faith schools, third teach the fucking kids about reality.

I kissed a girl and I liked it...

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:08:39 UTC | #896969

Sean_W's Avatar Comment 20 by Sean_W

They don't have a lot of history do they? Me either really, but I know enough to see that their argument is the same one that has been used to justify discrimination countless times in the past. I'd like to think that if they had at least some history they couldn't miss that. -ignorant and involved in schooling, that's too much

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:59:26 UTC | #896976

Functional Atheist's Avatar Comment 21 by Functional Atheist

@14 Your little old lady evidence is anecdotal, at best, deceptive at worse. Not only might her sentiments be chalked up to internalized homophobia (both hers and what she perceives of yours), but it fails to consider the possibility of bisexuality.

There is also evidence that women have a kind of superpower relative to men, in demonstrating arousal patterns to a much broader range of sexual stimuli than men do, on average. Your little old lady is typically female in her story of being aroused by a woman but later proving to be primarily heterosexual--while the same pattern would apply to some men, it is much more likely to apply to a woman.

You also appear to be peddling the trope that sexual orientation is a choice, and that therefore gays are hell-bent on recruiting the young (since 'they can't reproduce for themselves' if we want to be gratuitously old-fashioned in the gay-bashing). Gay groups are nothing but recruitment centers in your view, analogous to Bible-reading or Qu'ran-reading group. This is a false analogy--most young people merely parrot the religious views of their parrots, which is in stark contrast to most LGBT kids, the overwhelming majority of whom have straight parents.

Your view opposing gay groups in schools is not based on worthwhile evidence. If you're seriously going to stand with bigots and bullies based on a single little old lady's story of a schoolgirl crush, then your bona fides to belong among those of us who believe in science, reason and evidence are highly questionable.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 03:40:24 UTC | #896983

prettygoodformonkeys's Avatar Comment 22 by prettygoodformonkeys

Hilary Clinton: "It's not gay rights, it's human rights."

I never thought I'd quote her, but when you're right, you're right.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 03:50:14 UTC | #896985

prettygoodformonkeys's Avatar Comment 23 by prettygoodformonkeys

"What nobody here in good conscience can support is a law that calls on people of faith to abandon the beliefs that we consider sacred, all in the name of political correctness."

Abandon them. They're wrong. It's called 'Common Law', and it's the body of record that shows what we, as a species, have learned from our experience and have agreed is fair, and important. If your 'beliefs' come into conflict with reality (C.L.) then you are wrong, and are just pushing your own version of political correctness (read: lobbying to the public).

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 03:58:06 UTC | #896989

crookedshoes's Avatar Comment 24 by crookedshoes

What I do not get is the idea that being gay is sinful and the gay person is going to hell for eternity. That is what these people believe. So, if the punishment is ETERNITY, why persecute the gay people NOW?

I mean this decision to JUDGE gays now shows a clear disregard for the "only god can judge" clause in the book they read from. It also shows a clear NON-understanding of what eternity means. I mean, forever, infinity, in imaginary hell and you have to go against one of the teachings of your own book to pile on for the meager 80 years we are here on earth?

I am assuming that the numerator is 80 years and the denominator is infinity. This means that our time here is ZERO. So why violate your own tenets in order to hate on someone who is merely living their life? Why isn't hell enough? Eternity in hell?

This proves (to me) that they have been instructed to hate so they follow the instructions. NO THOUGHT; blind adherence to bullshit.

I hope that some day the gay population and those of us that support tolerance and humanity out number these bigots and can legislate to them.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 04:02:59 UTC | #896990

Agrajag's Avatar Comment 25 by Agrajag

Comment 24 by crookedshoes So, if the punishment is ETERNITY, why persecute the gay people NOW?

I think it was Starcrash who said, some time ago, something like "show me a religious person who believes he has to take matters of judgement/punishment into his own hands, and I'll show you someone who doesn't believe his god is omnipotent".

These people know, maybe at a subliminal level, that there is no punishment waiting for those they disparage, so they feel the need to provide it themselves. They do not trust their god.
Steve

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 05:03:42 UTC | #896996

criddick's Avatar Comment 26 by criddick

Religious people are completely intolerant of anything that is against what they believe to be true based on a book that was written thousands of years ago. What's so funny is that, at the time the bible was written, abomination actually meant to go against a ritual or tradition, not to violate any form of morality. So, in the bible, when it says that homosexuality is an abomination, it is actually referring to the fact that it was against tradition or ritual. Even if they knew this I'm sure they wouldn't care to listen.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 05:29:30 UTC | #896997

alaskansee's Avatar Comment 27 by alaskansee

@ 24 and 25

Because the rules say all you have to do is repent and accept god/jesus/mo into your heart and ta da. A life full of sin can be forgiven at the "eleventh hour", so really you have to.

Even dentists get into heaven!

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 05:30:37 UTC | #896998

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 28 by Premiseless

Male hetero , female hetero , asexual, bi sexual, alter male to female, alter female to male.

If these are what we are, consciousness grooms itself to suggest otherwise and denies others their reality acceptance. This of course runs the high likelihood of irrational counter bias. The poison to combat the poison.

Unless we are able to free think and reason from mutually respectable states of mind, we are doomed to live a Eurocentric emotional currency where the only ones profiteering are those being paid to procrastinate to their own advantage.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 08:02:15 UTC | #897011

Galactor's Avatar Comment 29 by Galactor

"To force, especially Christian classrooms or schools, to have homosexual clubs would of course be an affront to their family values," Charles McVety, of the Institute for Canadian Values, told a joint news conference.

Isn't this precisely why such clubs and attempts to promote tolerance of minorities are required? To stop it from being an affront to your stupid, ignorant, backward "family values"?

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 09:11:03 UTC | #897022

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 30 by drumdaddy

Stomp on the rights of others, get rebuked, cry 'foul'. Such a sorry game plan adhered to by the desperate hokum-peddlers. It won't be this way for very much longer if we all push. See you at the Reason Rally.

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 10:43:13 UTC | #897043