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UK government bans creationist schools - Comments

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 1 by Neodarwinian

A win for the home team, but the championship is still to be won. The never ending battle for truth, justice and the scientific method!

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 04:12:02 UTC | #907147

obijuanmartinez's Avatar Comment 2 by obijuanmartinez

Well done! Kudos to you all. Now if only that sentiment could catch on here in the States (won' t be holding my breath on that one)

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 04:19:23 UTC | #907150

lewis.breland's Avatar Comment 3 by lewis.breland

Good work, Britons!

Proud cousin in America, Lewis

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 04:24:40 UTC | #907152

AndyIMM's Avatar Comment 4 by AndyIMM

So great to see some good news for a change ....... Congratulations to the BHA and the UK govenment .

Sadly this will never happen on the other side of the Atlantic because over there , Evolution is "only a theory" ...... you know just like Music theory .... wait on ! Music theory is real... ooh !

Now we need to see this same thing happen down under in Australia , but with a "devoit catholic" headed to be our next Prime Minister , its doubtful that his party will preclude dogma and ideology from its policy making ...

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 05:15:39 UTC | #907158

Hernan's Avatar Comment 5 by Hernan

Well done BHA !!!

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 05:22:10 UTC | #907159

brighterstill's Avatar Comment 6 by brighterstill

Congratulations UK!! Well done RDFers! One small step for Reason, one giant leap for Civilization!

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 05:39:57 UTC | #907160

Save me jebuz!'s Avatar Comment 7 by Save me jebuz!

Over 150 years of irrefutable proof later, one wonders how Mr. Darwin would feel, seeing only now, this initiative adopted in the UK. I should think he would be a little disappointed. And were he here and he looked across the pond...

Its times like this I'm glad there's no afterlife.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 05:42:59 UTC | #907161

prietenul's Avatar Comment 8 by prietenul

So this means all the Muslim schools in the UK will be defunded? I recall them poopooing evolution.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:18:01 UTC | #907163

mmurray's Avatar Comment 9 by mmurray

Excellent job by the BHA. Sadly it is probably just recovering the situation 20 years ago before creationism crawled across the Atlantic and Blair invented the absurd idea of a Faith School.

Michael

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:51:55 UTC | #907166

CdnMacAtheist's Avatar Comment 10 by CdnMacAtheist

As a UK citizen living in Canada I'm glad to sign this petition, and to see that some sanity is evident, with a big push from rational thinkers, in Britain. Although we have some problems in Canada with our 'separate school system' and too much accommodating to all faith systems, we are way ahead of the USA in this area.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 07:00:19 UTC | #907167

Vorlund's Avatar Comment 11 by Vorlund

Well done Prof Dawkins and BHA. Wonderful news.

Comment 8 by prietenul :

So this means all the Muslim schools in the UK will be defunded? I recall them poopooing evolution.

It will be interesting to see how this gets handled.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 07:43:30 UTC | #907175

Tyrosine's Avatar Comment 12 by Tyrosine

What a nice thing to read in the morning to get you set up for the day! Fantastic news. We've all wanted for this to happen, I'm just staggered it has. The Labour governments have all be very good at progressively dumbing down this country. Nice to see the Conservatives putting the house in order, once again.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:13:55 UTC | #907180

Jos Gibbons's Avatar Comment 13 by Jos Gibbons

Reason I'm happy: this is happening.
Reason I'm disappointed: see Comment 7.
Reason I'm amused: see Comment 11. Please let it happen!
Reason I'm confused: given that the Government's policy on petitions is if it has 100,000 signatures they'll think about discussing in Parliament whether or not a bill should be put before them calling for the changes it asks for, I don't get why they're giving into this one on just over 20,000 signatures.
Reason I'm impressed: the creator of this petition is a personal friend of mine. (Incidentally, so is Alex Gabriel, whose petition was much discussed here yesterday.)
Reason I'm ashamed: I need to start making these petitions.
Reason I'm hopeful: We seem to make a lot of them these days, & they're doing well.
Reason I'm embarrassed: I forgot I'd already signed this petition ages ago.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:21:19 UTC | #907182

TrickyDicky's Avatar Comment 14 by TrickyDicky

"contrary to established scientific and/or historical evidence and explanations"

I don't like the and/or. it leaves an opening for the lawyers.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:23:15 UTC | #907183

Hellboy2's Avatar Comment 15 by Hellboy2

Well done BHA et al - some good news at last. Wonder if we'll hear a quote from Blair?

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:48:56 UTC | #907187

Emmeline's Avatar Comment 16 by Emmeline

Comment 7 by Save me jebuz! :

Over 150 years of irrefutable proof later, one wonders how Mr. Darwin would feel, seeing only now, this initiative adopted in the UK. I should think he would be a little disappointed. And were he here and he looked across the pond...

Its times like this I'm glad there's no afterlife.

We haven't needed such a ban before because the rise of creationist science teaching is relatively recent in the UK (and seems to have been influenced by the US and Muslim schools).

A few years ago we had a creationist group who set up a state funded academy and their antics were highlighted by Richard Dawkins. We then had a government statement saying that creationism had no place in state funded science lessons.

This latest episode is due to the introduction of a new kind of state funded school (free schools) so it needed another government statement to make it clear that creationist groups can't set up a free school.

Excellent work by the BHA and all the scientists/prominent people who pushed this issue now.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:15:48 UTC | #907193

mjwemdee's Avatar Comment 17 by mjwemdee

This is terrific news. But terrible that in this day and age it should even have been necessary.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:19:39 UTC | #907196

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 18 by rod-the-farmer

The devil, so to speak, is in the details. What if anything will happen to those schools teaching creationism already ? Will the entire school be de-funded ? What exactly would this mean in practise ? Or just the loss of the equivalent of the salary of the science teacher(s) ? More info if you please, from someone close to the issue.

As for the reaction of the U.S., it may well be bigger than you think. Anytime the government of an educated, civilised country votes to throw out your belief system it has to cause a tremor. The U.S. would pay little or no attention to this if it had come from a young, third world country. But the UK ! Watch for this to become a question asked of the Republican candidates for President.

Let us pray for this to happen, so all of us can watch their reaction. (Except Jon Huntsman, of course, he is the only one of them who accepts evolution by natural selection.)

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:39:01 UTC | #907205

sunbeamforjeebus's Avatar Comment 19 by sunbeamforjeebus

A good victory,well done B.H.A. and all involved.Looking at the statement ' contrary to established scientific and/or historical evidence and explanations' surely more mileage can be made.What about the act of praying in schools?

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:40:22 UTC | #907206

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 20 by drumdaddy

Now they won't have to find volunteers who would donate a rib to those lab classes involving experimental woman creation.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:51:47 UTC | #907211

hellosnackbar's Avatar Comment 21 by hellosnackbar

One in the eye for creationists. They see and don't believe and yet they don't see and do!

[edited by moderator to bring within terms of use]

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:53:38 UTC | #907212

jason-91's Avatar Comment 22 by jason-91

Personally I see nothing wrong with creationism or the thought of creationist schools etc. When I was at school, creationism was never taught and RE was cancelled after the first year. Unfortunately only Evolution was taught in school.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:05:08 UTC | #907215

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 23 by Premiseless

This is sense prevailing for unknowing minds. Shame it can't be extended to preclude schools from including myths as if real through ritual and general 'Golden Rule' pairings.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:30:50 UTC | #907222

strangebrew's Avatar Comment 24 by strangebrew

Comment 22 by jason-91

Personally I see nothing wrong with creationism or the thought of creationist schools etc.

Then you have not been paying sufficient attention and I pity your kids...

Well done BHA & RD...keep the science real!

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:45:06 UTC | #907227

jason-91's Avatar Comment 25 by jason-91

Comment 24 by strangebrew "Then you have not been paying sufficient attention and I pity your kids...

Well done BHA & RD...keep the science real!"

Who are you to judge someone you know nothing about. I just meant it in the way, if that is where the parents would prefer their children to go to schoo,l then why not?

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:53:21 UTC | #907229

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 26 by AtheistEgbert

Comment 25 by jason-91 :

Who are you to judge someone you know nothing about. I just meant it in the way, if that is where the parents would prefer their children to go to schoo,l then why not?

Jason, not all things come down to choices, especially in the case of children and the irrational. Children are less able to make choices and so that is why they have parents. Sometimes parents are not able to make choices either, because they're either irresponsible, ignorant or lack rational judgment. That is why the state does the job of education, not parents, because the state has a responsibility to do so.

The truth is, of course, that creationism is not science but religious propaganda. I don't think children should be subjected to any propaganda, whether it be Christian, Islamic, fascist, communist or scientology and so on.

Unfortunately, the state is often irresponsible, irrational or ignorant and then you have a major problem. That is why the government created this problem by being irresponsible in the first place.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:10:25 UTC | #907236

Emmeline's Avatar Comment 27 by Emmeline

Comment 22 by jason-91 :

Personally I see nothing wrong with creationism or the thought of creationist schools etc. When I was at school, creationism was never taught and RE was cancelled after the first year. Unfortunately only Evolution was taught in school.

If people wish to teach their children creationism, they are free to do so but not in publicly funded schools. It's the job of government to ensure that science is taught in state schools and they'd be failing if they used public money to support the promotion of a such an anti-scientific agenda in education.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:13:53 UTC | #907238

jason-91's Avatar Comment 28 by jason-91

Why I personally see nothing wrong with creationism is because, a person has a choice to either accept the universe was intentionally created or wasn't intentionally made to be what it is. I just don't seem to understand why some people need to argue. Fair enough, we are all entitled to a reasonable opinion regarding both views. I'm not a parent, but if I were to ever have children I know I would never force them go to a particular school, just as long as the school has a good reputation for teaching children in the classtimes.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:19:01 UTC | #907241

Tryphon Tournesol's Avatar Comment 29 by Tryphon Tournesol

@25: Jason, The theory of evolution is -as opposed to creationism- is knowledge the world benefits from. Withholding that from (your) children deprives them of those benefits. Children are not just products with which one can do anything the parents like.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:19:27 UTC | #907242

C.Wood's Avatar Comment 30 by C.Wood

Comment 22 by jason-91 :

Personally I see nothing wrong with creationism or the thought of creationist schools etc. When I was at school, creationism was never taught and RE was cancelled after the first year. Unfortunately only Evolution was taught in school.

Perhaps they should also teach that Santa is real and lives in the North Pole. Or maybe we should have a class on the biology of the Loch Ness monster. How about a scientific class explaining that the earth is flat and rests on the back of a giant turle?

Just because someone or some group believes in such crap, doesn't mean it's anywhere close to being real.

Schools teach real, useful stuff. Do you want your kids learning other culture's myths, but being told they're real? Of course you don't. But apparently you're OK with teaching your own culture's myths like they're real. Sorry to say, but they're not.

If parents want kids to learn about creationism (which to this day has ZERO basis on REALITY), feel free to teach them at home. School is for learning what is REAL and USEFUL. Go preach somewhere else.

That said, I'm perfectly OK with schools talking about creationism and similar "views", as long as they make it clear it's an idea with NO BASIS ON REALITY at all. Meaning, useless crap.

Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:19:33 UTC | #907243