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← [Update 1/21] Rajasthan police invented plot - A WRITER UNDER THREAT, AGAIN

[Update 1/21] Rajasthan police invented plot - A WRITER UNDER THREAT, AGAIN - Comments

prettygoodformonkeys's Avatar Comment 1 by prettygoodformonkeys

Would it be Islamophobic of me to say they should leave this man alone?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 02:28:24 UTC | #910389

El Bastardo's Avatar Comment 2 by El Bastardo

Sad really.

If they want to remain ignorant, then fair enough. However, to demand everyone else should be as ignorant as them under pain of death, just sad.

Business as usual I suppose.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 02:30:13 UTC | #910390

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 3 by Neodarwinian

To hold a " grudge " for so long rather likens one to a Mafia boss. Of course that is really what we are dealing with here, extortionists and murderers. The victim of of these thugs is always the one not only hurt, but in certain quarters, blamed for being said victim. A hard governmental push back is needed here, not some obsequious pandering to these criminals.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 02:33:30 UTC | #910391

drumdaddy's Avatar Comment 4 by drumdaddy

There is no allah. Proceed from there.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:33:22 UTC | #910395

Philster61's Avatar Comment 5 by Philster61

Why aren't those who to appear there eg Oprah Winfrey boycotting as protest?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:50:39 UTC | #910404

sanban's Avatar Comment 6 by sanban

Comment 5 by Philster61 : Why aren't those who to appear there eg Oprah Winfrey boycotting as protest?

Bwahahahahahah!

Oh, you didn't mean that facetiously?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:55:28 UTC | #910405

SnowyDoc's Avatar Comment 7 by SnowyDoc

All religious fantasy aside... I don't care what your cherished viewpoint is, whether based on moral, ethical, philosophical, scientific or imaginary-friends-in-the-sky grounds...

You... do... NOT... have... the... right... not... to... be... offended.

Deal with it. Move on. Do something useful with your energy and time. Threatening and harming others because they don't subscribe to your particular worldview is simply unacceptable.

Of course, when your particular worldview incorporates the directive "enslave or kill those who refuse to share our worldview", then there is a problem...

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:03:29 UTC | #910408

mmurray's Avatar Comment 8 by mmurray

So is Cat Stevens playing? Looks like the Peace Train has been stopped by an explosion on the line.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:36:41 UTC | #910412

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 9 by Steve Zara

I need help. I need someone who knows about these things to explain this to me. I just don't understand what this is all about. I have been completely stumped about this since the original release of "The Satanic Verses". I can understand why someone may not like the contents of such a book. I can understand why there might be some sort of anti-Western world-view that provides motivations to pick on just about anything and say it is offensive. But what I just can't get into my head is why anyone would get worked up into a murderous fury about words in a book like the Satanic Verses. Words in a book.

I also can't understand why anyone would want to have it known that they are so worked up. Being so emotionally reactive to words is a clear sign of weakness. It shows that not only have you no ability to answer back with words, but you are so feeble-minded that you can't tolerate the existence of words you don't even have to read. It's like admitting to a form of phobia.

Why would anyone want to admit to being so weak? Why would they want to give the impression that all someone in the West has to do is shout 'BOO!' and thousands of Muslims faint to the ground and complain that they are being attacked or offended? How is that supposed to be either religious, or in support of religion?

What is really going on here?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 06:24:12 UTC | #910418

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 10 by susanlatimer

I just don't understand what this is all about.

Words in a book.

There's your answer.

Not very satisfying, is it?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 06:46:55 UTC | #910422

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 11 by Premiseless

Comment 9 by Steve Zara :

I need help. I need someone who knows about these things to explain this to me. I just don't understand what this is all about. I have been completely stumped about this since the original release of "The Satanic Verses".

I think it related , in ways, to any action that vendors emotional taboo.

Someone you love receives injustice. How do you feel?

Religion harvests, then magnifies human emotions, or oppresses them. An emotion machine.

I used to wonder the same about door knockers 'inviting me' to bequeath all my thinking faculties to a framework for the common good based upon my 'suspected willingness' to think as they conspired. Because I violated my own mind and emotions, comprehensively, to their organisation, due this philosophical ideal, I grew increasingly perplexed at the extent of various others ranges of interpretation and emotional corruption due what appeared a framework for unity. What still broke through this was an intense suspicion of difference. The same old resentment of out group coming in to an established class pyramid, with its own biased values as to what is grand and what is street urchin. It reduces into a loyalty pyramid. Betrayal is unforgivable - not in deed - but in reason. If reason breaks the group then reason is Judas. Taboo is intolerable.

What the groups fail to acknowledge is their taboo. The utter destruction they propagate upon the psychology of sincere humans who they symbiotically corrupt with notions that it is divine to relinquish reason, which then subdues spirit, confuses the self beyond recognition and forges an isolation, when rejected due reason, that is violent upon the self to ever recover from. And all this psychological violence goes unseen, disrespected and serves to somehow strengthen the group cohesion that convinces itself it is eeking out the insincere. It's akin to witchhunt meditation. Masturbating those emotions which retain unity around an irrational framework and rendering the inconsistencies the wisdom of god. Those same emotions that get fusewired to any target identified by said wisdom!

I'm too kind - I know this! But it took me years to bring it on home and when I did there was only me left.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 07:01:29 UTC | #910424

KAhmed's Avatar Comment 12 by KAhmed

Oh please. Another cheap publicity stunt by Rushdie to drum-up the haunting spectre of Khomeini's 1989 death edict against him. You sell enough books, Rushdie. You don't have to be a tactless grumpy old man taking a "blast from the past" to boost your sales. No one is going to kill you.

But what I just can't get into my head is why anyone would get worked up into a murderous fury about words in a book like the Satanic Verses. Words in a book.

Khomeini was a master politician. He got worked up about it - no one else did initially. And he drudged up the mindless illiterate masses of Iran to think "oh! ya! Our crappy poverty-stricken lives in this village of interior Iran don't matter, what matters is what this foreign writer has written! Blasphemy!" and get distracted from the crumbling Iranian economy following the end of the disastrous Iran-Iraq War of 1980-1989. Kind of like the crazy things politicians do in other countries to their gullible masses who do not realize their economic self-interest in tossing out the Overseer. Religious mantra is just another face to the same game - ultranationalism and ideology are the faces in other countries. Take your pick - the end result is the same. Nothing unique.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 07:32:18 UTC | #910427

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 13 by Premiseless

Comment 12 by KAhmed :

Khomeini was a master politician. He got worked up about it - no one else did initially. And he drudged up the mindless illiterate masses of Iran to think "oh! ya! Our crappy poverty-stricken lives in this village of interior Iran don't matter, what matters is what this foreign writer has written! Blasphemy!" and get distracted from the crumbling Iranian economy following the end of the disastrous Iran-Iraq War of 1980-1989. Kind of like the crazy things politicians do in other countries to their gullible masses who do not realize their economic self-interest in tossing out the Overseer. Religious mantra is just another face to the same game - ultranationalism and ideology are the faces in other countries. Take your pick - the end result is the same. Nothing unique.

It's weird how often this genre of filmography plays out on the world screen. Do you think there can be an alternative?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 07:39:33 UTC | #910429

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 14 by susanlatimer

KAhmed

From the article:

In the past few days, there had been reports in the Times of India and elsewhere that Rushdie’s life was being threatened—hard evidence that a fatwa the Ayatollah Khomeini issued more than two decades ago, ordering Rushdie’s death, has hardly burned itself out. The fatwa targeted others involved with the publication of Rushdie’s novel, “The Satanic Verses,” as well; his Japanese translator was murdered, and his Italian translator almost was. Rushdie spent years braving a life of hideous threats, and hiding out under armed guard in Great Britain. He is now sixty-four, and has been living the past decade in relative freedom, mainly in New York, and has made many private visits to India, including to the Jaipur Literary Festival in 2007.

It's incredible the lengths to which people will go for literary prominence. When your agent tells you to just drudge up the mindless illiterate masses of Iran to think "oh! ya! Our crappy poverty-stricken lives in this village of interior Iran don't matter, what matters is what this foreign writer has written! Blasphemy!", you'd better just do what your agent told you. The really tricky part is explaining it to your Japanese translator.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 07:49:23 UTC | #910433

raam's Avatar Comment 15 by raam

I really do hope that professor Dawkins condemns this cowardice by the Indian government in his characteristically forthright style, when he's in Jaipur. As the world's largest democracy which is supposed to uphold secularism, we need a visible movement to bring out of their closets, the atheists and agnostics. Presently, their voice in underrepresented. I would request prof Dawkins foundation for reason to aim their formidable guns a little more in the direction of our land.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 07:56:18 UTC | #910436

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 16 by Tyler Durden

Comment 12 by KAhmed :

Oh please. Another cheap publicity stunt by Rushdie to drum-up the haunting spectre of Khomeini's 1989 death edict against him. You sell enough books, Rushdie. You don't have to be a tactless grumpy old man taking a "blast from the past" to boost your sales.

Somehow, the words "publicity stunt" and "Salman Rushdie" just don't fit together, can you figure out why? Take your time answering this, as you seem very, very confused.

No one is going to kill you.

How do you know this?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:19:04 UTC | #910440

sbooder's Avatar Comment 17 by sbooder

Words in a book.

It is words in a book that drives them to this insanity in the first place. If words in their holy book can make them murder, then just imagine how they feel about the words in other books.

It truly is a form of insanity.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:41:39 UTC | #910442

susanlatimer's Avatar Comment 18 by susanlatimer

comment 15 by raam

I would request prof Dawkins foundation for reason to aim their formidable guns a little more in the direction of our land.

I hope they hear your request. (Easy for me to say.) I'm under the impression that there are many Indians fighting for reason in India and that it's a very difficult struggle.

How can we commonfolk help?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:46:58 UTC | #910445

mmurray's Avatar Comment 19 by mmurray

Comment 12 by KAhmed :

Oh please. Another cheap publicity stunt by Rushdie to drum-up the haunting spectre of Khomeini's 1989 death edict against him. You sell enough books, Rushdie. You don't have to be a tactless grumpy old man taking a "blast from the past" to boost your sales. No one is going to kill you.

You know this because ???

Michael

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:02:21 UTC | #910448

raam's Avatar Comment 20 by raam

The Indian government seems to understand secularism as the duty of the state to pander to the whims and fancies of all religious groups and it prides itself in this. What is missing from the state's calculations is the voice of the non-believers. And in debate after debate, in television shows and magazines, when someone from the government points this out, rarely does an atheist or agnostic speak out, saying that the freedom to practice religion also includes freedom from religion. I cannot remember a single time when I have read an article written by prof Dawkins or Sam Harris or hitchens or any one of the horsemen in our local English dailies or magazines. Only if your foundation of reason can have a presence in our media and participate in these debates can more atheists and agnostics in India be encourages to come out of the closet.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:34:27 UTC | #910456

chris 116's Avatar Comment 21 by chris 116

Comment 12 by KAahmed: Oh please. Another cheap publicity stunt by Rushdie to drum up the haunting spectre of Khomeini's 1989 death edit against him.

As you point out, the fatwa was issued in 1989. However, in February 2009, the Iranian News Agency reported that:

"a group of Iranian lawmakers, political activists and analysts believe that the fatwa against the apostate British writer Salman Rushdie is irrevocable."

And I think that you really should answer M Murray's question, or admit that you have no evidence as to why Rushdie's not putting the festival visitors at risk is a cheap publicity stunt. You should remember that while the Turkish Satanic Verses' translator survived, 37 people died in the attempt on his life.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:57:49 UTC | #910464

rod-the-farmer's Avatar Comment 22 by rod-the-farmer

Maybe it IS a disease. We need a name for it. Bookaphobia ? Thoughtaphobia ? Lackarationality ?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:13:38 UTC | #910466

Stafford Gordon's Avatar Comment 23 by Stafford Gordon

The village idiots are at it again.

Writers who attend should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves; does Oprah what's her face really need the attention and money from extra sales of her "book".

And what's her "book" about I wonder? Let me guess!

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:51:12 UTC | #910469

Dixiedog's Avatar Comment 24 by Dixiedog

I could understand them not liking Rushdie as a writer - he's one of the most overrated novelists of all time, leaden prose and ideas stolen from Marquez (among others), but I'd defend his right to write to my last breath. Grow up, idiots.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:24:18 UTC | #910474

chris 116's Avatar Comment 25 by chris 116

Comment 23 by Stafford Gibbons

Writers who attend should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

You've forgotten to explain why.

The festival had already begun when Rushdie cancelled. Its organisers had bravely resisted pressure to cancel Rushdie.

From the OP.

The Satanic verses is still banned in India and so in late afternoon authors Hari Kunzru and Amitava Kumar read passages from the novel as a form of protest, to much applause.

Rushdie has said that he hopes to do a video link to the festival.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:01:22 UTC | #910482

Richard Dawkins's Avatar Comment 26 by Richard Dawkins

Comment 12 by KAhmed :

Oh please. Another cheap publicity stunt by Rushdie to drum-up the haunting spectre of Khomeini's 1989 death edict against him. You sell enough books, Rushdie. You don't have to be a tactless grumpy old man taking a "blast from the past" to boost your sales. No one is going to kill you.

I don't know who you are KAhmed but I don't like you. How dare you make such an accusation? Are you seriously suggesting that this is a publicity stunt, given that Sir Salman has lived much of his life under the looming threat of what actually happened to at least two of his translators, and what actually happened to Theo van Gogh? How dare you?

Richard

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:01:19 UTC | #910494

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 27 by Ignorant Amos

Comment 26 by Richard Dawkins

But, but, but, Islam is the religion of peace and KAhmed has a bubble at risk of being burst. Can't have that now can we?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:20:16 UTC | #910497

Tyler Durden's Avatar Comment 28 by Tyler Durden

Comment 27 by Ignorant Amos :

Comment 26 by Richard Dawkins

I don't know who you are KAhmed but I don't like you

But, but, but, Islam is the religion of peace and KAhmed has a bubble at risk of being burst. Can't have that now can we?

An apologist's work is never done. So much ignorance, so little time.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:44:10 UTC | #910501

Steve Zara's Avatar Comment 29 by Steve Zara

Comment 11 by Premiseless

Someone you love receives injustice. How do you feel?

The strangest aspect of this response to words is it implies that God is vulnerable and impotent. Why should the creator need anyone to deal with supposed insults to him?

Of course, I don't believe that those threatening Rushdie think this about their God.

So I'm still no wiser.

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 14:23:11 UTC | #910510

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 30 by Premiseless

Comment 29 by Steve Zara :

Comment 11 by Premiseless

Someone you love receives injustice. How do you feel?

The strangest aspect of this response to words is it implies that God is vulnerable and impotent. Why should the creator need anyone to deal with supposed insults to him?

Of course, I don't believe that those threatening Rushdie think this about their God.

So I'm still no wiser.

You know a child's emotions can be displaced into fantasy and hooked up to serve an illusion. The Santa story for one. Now walk in on Christmas day and take away all the presents - reminding the recipients it was all an illusion and there is no need to deceive themselves any longer. Your kindly rationality will hardly go well, even if your logic has evidence. Magnify this to a lifetime. The presents are resurrected loved ones. Oppressed and repressed existence will finally get a freedom. But suddenly along comes Mr Science and says he has some good reasons to explain the bad news for the emotions.

Next put yourself in a position of power. All your followers are showing uncertainty in their eyes. Are they coming for you or are you gonna find ways to divert their potential hostility? The results of national reform rarely display an awakening leader who then shares this with the electorate, expecting them all to agree and find it great news that they were deluded so long. I wonder if this has ever happened?

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 14:35:42 UTC | #910515