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← Turkey PM sparks furor by saying he wants to ‘raise a religious youth’

Turkey PM sparks furor by saying he wants to ‘raise a religious youth’ - Comments

EtotheiPi's Avatar Comment 1 by EtotheiPi

Most political leaders use dogmas to govern and to protect themselves from criticism. What could be more convenient than the dogmas that religion so abundantly provides?

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:58:58 UTC | #916835

Mr Blue Sky's Avatar Comment 2 by Mr Blue Sky

Better to have it out in the open before they join the EU, it's what I fear is their intended position anyway

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:02:10 UTC | #916836

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 3 by AtheistEgbert

I smell fascism (of the Islamic variety).

The point about democratic values is that they're the opposite of authoritarian values. This is why the Arab Spring will turn out to be very much an Arab Winter, as they start embracing Islamic parties across the Arab world after the bloodshed of their revolutions.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:03:55 UTC | #916837

Duff's Avatar Comment 4 by Duff

If Turkey wants to stop its drive to prosperity and modernism and revert to living in the 12th Century like Afghanistan, that should be their decision. At least as their children learn the Koran instead of science, they will have the "comfort" of their religious beliefs. Religion really does poison everything.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:09:25 UTC | #916839

Cook@Tahiti's Avatar Comment 5 by Cook@Tahiti

Pious people make more compliant, more manipulable, less questioning sheep, and their attention is diverted onto non-issues such as gays, abortions, and exposed ankles, so that leaders can then do what they want with the economy & foreign policy, etc.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:26:20 UTC | #916846

A Umur's Avatar Comment 6 by A Umur

Finally (after 10 years...) some realizes that AKP is an islamist movement. They aim at transforming Turkey into an islamic state. They outsmarted Western and Turkish liberals by faking and hiding their true aims. Liberals were trapped in their wishful-thinking. The same dangerous and erroneous wishful-thinking is now happening regarding the "arab spring": one discourse in english for the western liberals, one completely deferent discourse in their own language for their supporters. In some rare occasions, the west gets the translation of the discourse intended to their local supporters...

The EUROPEAN SECULAR SOCIETY is guilty of showing AKP as a moderate and democratic party. I have tried to explain them many times how Turkey was democratic before AKP, and that they are anything but moderate. I have translated articles about this speech of Erdogan but for some reason obscure to me the EUROPEAN SECULAR SOCIETY preferred to ignore it.

I thank you dearly for having been more clairvoyant than the EUROPEAN SECULAR SOCIETY who seem to prefer to be dangerously complaisant with the islamist...

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:36:05 UTC | #916847

isik y.'s Avatar Comment 7 by isik y.

An interview with 'Young Academics' on academic freedom in Turkey http://gitamerica.blogspot.com/2012/02/interview-with-young-academics-on.html

I have tried to explain them many times how Turkey was democratic before AKP

i really don't think Turkey was very democratic before AKP btw

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:55:17 UTC | #916851

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 8 by Alan4discussion

said Erdogan, himself a graduate of a clerical school and the leader of the Islamist-rooted Justice and Development Party (AKP),

Gazoing!!!!! Sounds a bit like the novel "1984" Ministry of Trooooffff.

Comment 6 by A Umur - The same dangerous and erroneous wishful-thinking is now happening regarding the "arab spring":

History has a way of running on the the longer term, than "jolly what ho! revolutions" leading to visions of Utopia. The Russians exchanged the Czar for Stalin. The Kurds rebelled against Saddam after the first Gulf War. Other examples of foot-shooting come to mind!

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:12:47 UTC | #916856

thpoc's Avatar Comment 9 by thpoc

Finally, Erdogan shows his true color, and it's green through and through. Who would doubt now Erdogans agenda of islamization?

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:23:04 UTC | #916862

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 10 by aquilacane

Kind of defeats the whole point of a politician. And what is it about the virtues of religion he is trying so hard to ingrain. The violence, the bigotry, the ignorance, the denial, what good will come from religion other than a general statement of supreme morality of some kind. What morality, explain and provide demonstration.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:05:16 UTC | #916873

Red Dog's Avatar Comment 11 by Red Dog

I'm glad that the PM is getting so much push back for his comment. However, as an American I'm rather ashamed to think how difficult it would be for a similar comment by a US politician to get this kind of response. American politicians say things like this and stronger all the time and virtually every main stream politician would be afraid to rebuke them. Its a sad day when even Turkey is more forward thinking than the US.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:18:13 UTC | #916878

Gurc's Avatar Comment 12 by Gurc

People are getting what they want. Everyone knew he was islamist and one third of the people voted for him, in the last election more than half voted for him. There has never been a public demand for civil rights and democracy in Turkey. Whoever says he wants democracy just says so to get his own rights. Majority does not really believe in individual freedom and rights.

Religion is not the only reason of the wars. Many people accuse religions for all of the wars (aspeciall on this atheism blog) but there are pasifist religions, too. The real problem is the ambition of the man to dictate his own life style onto another. In Turkey, Islamists have the power and now they are trying to change the education system in their favor. On the other hand, 20 years ago this was quite the opposite; Islamist lifestyle was attacked by using the government's hand. Turkish people do not respect the liberties of one another and this causes most of the problems. I can not blame religion on this issue. If everyone were atheist, then there would be tension rising from another issue like social justice.

AtheistEgbert said: The point about democratic values is that they're the opposite of authoritarian values. This is why the Arab Spring will turn out to be very much an Arab Winter, as they start embracing Islamic parties across the Arab world after the bloodshed of their revolutions.

He is right. Arab spring meant to be an islamist uprising from the beginning but the western public was constantly lied about it being a democratic uprising. Muslim brotherhood says they want democracy but their true agenda writes fundemantalism and restoration of khaliphate. Laws that are exerted from Qoran will be passed once they take power.

The future in the region will see much more bloodshed. The civil war in Iraq between religious groups (sunni-shiite) may spread among countries. I think a strong and religious sunni state is planned to be created in the region to balance Iran's rising power (Muslim Brotherhood will be the catalyst). After that, western powers can sell weapons to both sides in exchange for their oil, fair trade! I know western citizens do not wish this as the future of the region but their capitalist elite plans this. (American spies who were writing in arabic blogs for inciting people to rebel were cought in Adana,Turkey. One guy was pretending to be a lesbian girl who was deprived of her rights.) This is a conspiracy theory but I started to believe that it will happen after reading some of world's history.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:30:09 UTC | #916882

potteryshard's Avatar Comment 13 by potteryshard

“It is a sin to garner votes over religion. You are not religious but a religion-monger,”

“The race for piety will be our end.”

Too bad that here in the US we have no candidates for office with the courage and integrity to call a spade a 'manure-stacking appliance'.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:43:37 UTC | #916890

peter mayhew's Avatar Comment 14 by peter mayhew

No different from Cameron and Blair. Now I'd like to live in a country with a progressive pm like Ireland.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:39:18 UTC | #916896

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 15 by Border Collie

Wow, imagine that, Edrogan proposing a religious society.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:10:58 UTC | #916915

aquilacane's Avatar Comment 16 by aquilacane

Comment 12 by Gurc

He is right. Arab spring meant to be an islamist uprising from the beginning but the western public was constantly lied about it being a democratic uprising. Muslim brotherhood says they want democracy but their true agenda writes fundemantalism and restoration of khaliphate. Laws that are exerted from Qoran will be passed once they take power.

I commented early on in the uprising about a similar sentiment. A dictator is only slightly better than a theocracy. You can kill many dictatorships simply by cutting off the head but a theocracy can be picked up by anyone who wishes to wield it. Arab democracy will deliver their worst case scenario. Properly deluded; however, some may actually like it.

This is an Islam play, all the way. The slide has been greased it will be a fast ride down.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:35:21 UTC | #916930

smitemeifudare's Avatar Comment 17 by smitemeifudare

Finaly, some people are waking up to the true nature of the arab spring, The west helped kick out Sadam and Gahdafi,can we expect thanks? no we can expect the islamists to move in and sieze power,the sheep to folow them and human rights abuse to continue to spiral out of control.I said ages ago be carefull what you wish for,its a snake curling round to bite you in the arse.Now the islamists have more power and resorce available, at least when the dictators were in power, they were fighting amongst themselves and not getting stronger for it.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:19:05 UTC | #916968

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 18 by Neodarwinian

“The race for piety will be our end.”

Now that sounds like a familiar race to me!

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:51:57 UTC | #916993

irate_atheist's Avatar Comment 19 by irate_atheist

Nobber.

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:09:01 UTC | #917000

carlmosconi's Avatar Comment 20 by carlmosconi

The French and Germans have it right regarding Turkey's entry into the EU.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:46:12 UTC | #917115

kaanguner's Avatar Comment 21 by kaanguner

Since Turkey Republic is a young one, it still has struggles within it. To comment about Turkey Republic without knowing it's own dynamics and history is being naive. And making-see this sayings as forceful acts of Erdogan is clearly a dark propaganda. Everyone knew he was an Islamist to begin with. And he and his friends still elected from people in Turkey.

This saying is clearly states that their fight against Soldiers and Kemalist side of the Turkey which destroyed the democracy by 2 successful military coup d'etat and 1 post-modern one. Which created this scene and Erdogan.

Finally people in Turkey is starting to claim their own right and have a saying on Republic without being disturbed by Soldiers. The reason why Erdogan was selected and this saying is hurtful is this side of Kemalists and Militants is Islam-haters. Now the people of Turkey avenges them by destroying the this dirty hand on the neck of Turkey by destroying this Militant bureaucracy. And this sentence is one of the signs of their victory.

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:05:35 UTC | #917668

RevJimBob's Avatar Comment 22 by RevJimBob

He seems to be saying much the same as our own dear Baroness Warsi did yesterday.

Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:22:42 UTC | #917999