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← Britain being overtaken by 'militant secularists', says Baroness Warsi

Britain being overtaken by 'militant secularists', says Baroness Warsi - Comments

Stephen of Wimbledon's Avatar Comment 1 by Stephen of Wimbledon

I don't understand what Warsi is talking about.

Since when is secularism anti-religious?

We call our state a secular one. The word ‘secular’ is not a very happy one. And yet for want of better word, we have used it. What exactly does it mean? It does not obviously mean a state where religion is discouraged. It means freedom of religion and conscience including freedom for those who have no religion, subject only to their not interfering with each other or with the basic conceptions of our state…

Jawaharlal Nehru 1963

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:56:29 UTC | #917356

AtheistEgbert's Avatar Comment 2 by AtheistEgbert

No the problem is unelected militant islamists.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:00:34 UTC | #917360

JHJEFFERY's Avatar Comment 3 by JHJEFFERY

“For me, one of the most worrying aspects about this militant secularisation is that at its core and in its instincts it is deeply intolerant.

Just to beat Ignorant Amos to this one: SPROOOINNG!

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:07:05 UTC | #917364

BigPencil's Avatar Comment 4 by BigPencil

In an historic visit to the Vatican, Baroness Warsi will express her “fear” about the marginalisation of religion throughout Britain and Europe, saying that faith needs “a seat at the table in public life”.

Until they start having adult conversations,maybe the faithful should remain at the kiddies table.

I wonder what this great “Danger” is that they see in the erosion of religion. They never seem clear about who would be in “Danger” if all religions were to fade into oblivion.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:08:15 UTC | #917365

mmartini52's Avatar Comment 5 by mmartini52

Ugh. She just doesn't understand ordinary people. We may not want to be strident about it, but we REALLY REALLY don't care for religion, or faith. Especially in our public life.

And what a feeble rationalisation - we're "frightened of multiple identities". This really is nonsense of the highest order. Warsi is so so vacuous.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:09:31 UTC | #917366

Philoctetes                                        's Avatar Comment 6 by Philoctetes

I feel militant enough to write a strongly worded letter to the Times along the lines of why is this muslim tory whinging to the vatican about the lack of respect for superstitious ritualism in my country?

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:20:41 UTC | #917368

Premiseless's Avatar Comment 7 by Premiseless

We insist you respect our totalitarian sky invention otherwise we accuse you of , erm , totalitarianism!

Don't forget our totalitarian sky invention is gonna give you serious pain unless you do as we say. In behalf of totalitarian invention - we trust!

In behalf of reason - it is totalitarian unless it does as our totalitarian invention requires.

Reason must be stopped!

War? Si!

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:22:30 UTC | #917369

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 8 by Ignorant Amos

Comment 3 by JHJEFFERY

“For me, one of the most worrying aspects about this militant secularisation is that at its core and in its instincts it is deeply intolerant.

Just to beat Ignorant Amos to this one: SPROOOINNG!

I had a bag of meters just go off at once there.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:25:09 UTC | #917370

ccr5Delta32's Avatar Comment 9 by ccr5Delta32

These are two definitions of Militant 1. Fighting or warring. 2. Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause

If she really meant militant izlam and not secularism this article would almost make sense .
Perhaps we should write to her and ask her to contact the Saudi's requesting the release of Hamza Kashgari

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:25:20 UTC | #917371

Cartomancer's Avatar Comment 10 by Cartomancer

What a disgraceful waste of taxpayers' money.

What the hell happened? The IRISH are revoking their embassy to Ratzinger's tinpot pretend country yet we're spending a fortune sending unelected idiots like Warsi to go and stroke the evil old paedophile enabler's ego. How exactly does maintaining links with the criminal abuse ring that forms the last remnant of Mussolini's fascist state benefit our country in any way?

You're damn right Britain is being taken over by secularists. Those would be the British people, for whom secularism and freedom from religion are very important. We've let the lunatics run the asylum for too long - it is time to take back the public sphere from the small minority self-serving nonsense-peddlers who have never belonged there in the first place. When religion actually has something worthwhile to bring to the table, we'll gladly give it a place. But at the moment it has nothing, so like every other self-appointed hobby group in the country it doesn't deserve to sit among those who do. Why should their hobby, their passion, be given special treatment? Why not mine? When senior pub quiz setters get guaranteed places in the House of Lords, the works of Tolkien are read out before council meetings and Radio 4 has a daily slot for the thoughts of miniature wargamers, RPG enthusiasts and players of scrabble, then things might be a bit fairer. But do you catch me whingeing that Britain needs people who like the same things I do in positions of power as a matter of public routine?

There's a reason Britain is shedding the outward trappings of religion in public life - the vast majority of us these days never had any of the inner convictions to begin with. We recognise the empty nonsense for what it is. However much they puff and rave the oddballs, minorities and recent immigrants cannot disguise the fact that they ARE the only people who give a toss for their hobby anymore. I find the concern these people show very encouraging - it shows that reason is winning out.

And I find it very rich indeed that a FEMALE MUSLIM should be standing up for Britain's christian past. A past that saw enthusiastic crusader zeal against muslim lands and rampant, unabashed misogyny supported by the church. Heck, the church of England still doesn't allow women to become bishops! Britain has much in its past to be proud of, but the religious bits certainly 'aint it. The fact it was called christinanity is largely irrelevant anyway - what our religious history shows is how we shaped and crafted religious ideas to fit with our underlying concerns, not the other way around. There's a reason we abandoned our medieval catholicism in the first place, and it has rather more to do with a certain fat ginger bloke who couldn't keep his codpiece to himself than it does with anything so triflingly un-English as religious sentiment.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:30:23 UTC | #917373

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 11 by Alan4discussion

Oh! dear! This news story is really bringing all the religinuts out of the woodwork!

Oh! The persecution of equality!!!!!

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:31:30 UTC | #917374

delToro87's Avatar Comment 12 by delToro87

Sayeeda Warsi is a woman who contested a Lab/Con marginal seat at the 2005 General Election, at which there was a general swing from Labour to Conservative, who did worse than the Tory candidate in 2001, and was rewarded for this failure with a life peerage. Whenever I hear her talk she does not seem particularly bright, I really don't take anything she says seriously.

Naturally its all pathetic - militant secularism?? There's nothing militant about it, its just secularism. Just because you disagree with a point of view or people advocating something does not make them militant! Its encouraging to see on the Telegraph, a newspaper with a generally pro-religion readership, that the comments below the line are generally supportive of secularism. They recognise it for what it is - not being anti-religion, just not favouring one religion in particular, and not allowing religion special privileges, simply because it is religion.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:31:33 UTC | #917375

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 13 by Ignorant Amos

I'm recruiting for the New Militant Secular Army...sounds like an 80's new romantic pop group doesn't it?

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:37:04 UTC | #917377

yesnomaybe's Avatar Comment 14 by yesnomaybe

How complicated is it? If she wants religious identity patronised by the state, perhaps she would be so kind as to inform us why other forms of belief and identity should not enjoy exactly the same privileges?

I've never heard of a secularist insisting that it is impermissible to criticise secularism. Can Warsi and others please return the favour? No, didn't think so.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:50:15 UTC | #917383

danconquer's Avatar Comment 15 by danconquer

" needs “a seat at the table in public life”, so says the article.

Trouble is, the madame Faith has no table manners.

Look at her the wrong way and she'll stick that fish knife directly into your eyeball. Ask her if she would be oh-so-kind to pass the salt and she'll pour that pan of boiling soup straight down your knickers. Politely request that she tone down her belching, farting and general rowdiness and Faith will truculently insist that you are trying to oppress her.

Gradually summoning the courage to stand up to the bullying gate-crasher, the other guests have informed Faith that it is time for her to leave the table. She can, of course, request an invitation from the public for their consent if she still wishes to take a place at the table. But this, apparently, is not good enough for the dominatrix. Faith has been crashing dinner-parties for so long now you see, that she has no concept of 'invitations' or 'consent'.

And so the petulant flinging of food and distressed banging of cutlery will continue for some time yet.

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:57:51 UTC | #917391

ShadowMind's Avatar Comment 16 by ShadowMind

You cannot extract Christian foundations from the evolution of our nations any more than you can erase the spires from our landscape,” she will say in her speech

No one's talking about changing the past, just the present and the future. Yes, the nation's more recent history is (largely) christian. But things change.
And erasing spires is easy - a good earthquake or two will do it quite nicely.

Change is the only constant in the universe

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:12:15 UTC | #917398

Jumped Up Chimpanzee's Avatar Comment 17 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee

In the article, Warsi just goes on and on and on about how faith is so important, without ever deigning to explain to us peasants why that is so. We're not to reason why, we're to just to shut up and do as we are told.

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:12:41 UTC | #917399

Alan4discussion's Avatar Comment 18 by Alan4discussion

I think what we are seeing is "militant parrotism"!

Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism,

Have we said it enough times for the sheeples to believe us and rally to support our irrationality and spurious claims to religious privilege ?!

Go on! Chant it a few more times. Sheeples like to call this "reasoning", and can be a bit slow to catch on anyway!

Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism,

See how many brands of religinuttery will sing in unison and forget they have doGmatic doctrinal differences?

Ooops! The C of E lot have chanted Militant secularism,a lot more times than us - we must catch up to demonstrate our devotion or the press may forget to give our faith a mention!!

Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism, Militant secularism,

There - that's better, now we have made a rational argument to explain our victimisation!

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:13:03 UTC | #917400

potteryshard's Avatar Comment 19 by potteryshard

Trouble is, the madame Faith has no table manners.

Very good aphorism. The only problem is that you forgot to mention that Faith may be a madame, but she is certainly no lady. She has proven only too willing to jump into bed with anyone to achieve her goals. She also is well beyond over-nourished, and needs give back all the gold she has stolen from her admirers.

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:17:59 UTC | #917404

Alternative Carpark's Avatar Comment 20 by Alternative Carpark

Vile woman.

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:58:36 UTC | #917425

smitemeifudare's Avatar Comment 21 by smitemeifudare

I object most strongly to the composition of the delegation, as a Jedi Knight, and therfore a member of the 4th largest religion in the uk, as shown by the 2010 census, and no doubt,with an increased showing in this census,we are totaly unrepresented in the delegation! I wonder why?


Tue, 14 Feb 2012 01:04:36 UTC | #917429

Tony d's Avatar Comment 22 by Tony d

I wonder how this ass hole got a title.Surly the only title she merits is idiot.

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 01:07:03 UTC | #917430

Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar Comment 23 by Schrodinger's Cat

What a load of tripe from Baroness Warsi. If there's any 'militancy' she should be worried's that of her own religion, which she still clings onto despite all evidence that it's the product of a demented 7th century lunatic.

Altogether now with the lyrics....

" The lunatics have taken over the assylum......."

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 01:18:30 UTC | #917438

Byrneo's Avatar Comment 24 by Byrneo

Political religion sometimes seems like schoolyard bullying. Make up nasty things about those who think differently. Accuse them of things they haven't done or said. Pick on them in front of the popular and powerful kids to prove how much you fit in. Beat them up when they're undefended, alone or isolated.

Well we won't be bullied and picked on. We just want a peaceful and reasoned world, because that would be a better world for everyone. The kind of knowingly hysterical obfuscation of my values found in this piece is infuriating because of the hypocrisy. How dare she equate secularism with intolerance and bloody totalitarianism!

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 01:19:48 UTC | #917441

Neodarwinian's Avatar Comment 25 by Neodarwinian

“a seat at the table in public life”.

They have had the whole table for so long that even the simplest questioning of their deluded position puts them on the ultimate defensive.

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 01:27:00 UTC | #917447

Metamag's Avatar Comment 26 by Metamag

At this point I think everybody should just start to insert "militant" into every topic about everything so the term is rendered meaningless. Maybe it will sink in then...

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 01:27:49 UTC | #917448

PERSON's Avatar Comment 27 by PERSON

This is the old mirror and glue tactic. Accuse those who would oppose you of what you're planning yourself.

The fundies are driven by stories about "persecution", i.e. being prevented from implementing a theocracy. Part of that is the story that their host nation was completely theocratic until some arbitrary date, depending on what they're talking about. It could be the 1960s, 1950s, 1990s, 1980s, mid, early or late nineteenth century. Whatever fits what they're talking about, and whatever period happened to have had the values, legislation or whatever part of their political agenda they want to push. They then claim or imply that aspect of society was static before that, back to the Christianisation of country X.

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:14:25 UTC | #917470

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 28 by Border Collie

Here is the corrected version ...

“For me, one of the most worrying aspects about this ISLAM is that at its core and in its instincts it is deeply intolerant. It demonstrates similar traits to totalitarian regimes – denying people the right to a religious identity because they were frightened of the concept of multiple identities.”

The reciprocal clerical sodomy has begin. I knew it would occur, just didn't think it would be this soon. Clergy will to ANYTHING to keep itself in power. One of the next steps will probably be a "proposal" to make Islam a state religion of the UK.

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:33:52 UTC | #917473

Border Collie's Avatar Comment 29 by Border Collie

Comment Removed by Author

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:38:26 UTC | #917475

Ignorant Amos's Avatar Comment 30 by Ignorant Amos

Comment Removed by Author

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:44:52 UTC | #917476